I think I know what it is going to take.

A "good guy" voting machine expert will have to attempt, and succeed at rigging some sort of election, say, 1-3 counties in a particular Congressional district. Then, after the election, the e-voting expert comes forward and shows exactly how it was done. But not until after the winner is sworn in and takes the oath. It has to be taken all the way to swearing in, because otherwise the deniers (who get 95% of the airwaves) can predictably claim that nothing actually happened, and marginalize the issue.

If you were going to do it as an expose (which likely would send you to jail) and document it, AND document the aftermath (especially if the results are thrown enough to get the attention of the voting integrity community, who would predictably yet again be inneffective at actually getting any accountability***) and how none of the checks worked to catch the problem.

***Not meant to disparage the hard working voting integrity folks, but more an admission of how strong the adversary is.

Possible strategy (although he/she is still going to jail) - the person might want to do 2 districts: a heavily favored Repub, and a heavily favored Dem. But not rediculously favored, like Charlie Rangel (~95%-5%). In each case, boost their expected easy victory (say, 65%-35%)into a very easy actual victory (say, 80%-20%). It won't actually change an election - that would be cruel to both candidates, and their families.

I can't think of how we will ever be able to rub the media's face in it and the politicians face in it for them to see the problem.

Well, sratch that - I can think of one other thing. A VR-wide, Ameria-wide campaign to raise enough money ($1 Million?) to pay an army of main stream professional pollsters whatevery their normal fee is for a large scale exit poll - with 3 main differences. One (1): The buyers would be us, the public. We can raise enough to pay the pollsters just as much or more as the 6 Big Networks did in 2006. Two (2) The data - all the data would be available to THE PUBLIC as soon as the polls close - because WE paid to be the customer. The Big 6 could help pay for the poll too, but they don't get to hog the data for weeks or even minutes. Three (3): The poll would be designed with the highest priority being documenting the accuracy of the election. I'm sure exit polling science is developed enough that they already know how to focus on accuracy, they just need to be PAID to do it. By US.

This far out from an election, if we start raising money for a comon fund to fund and exit poll, conducted by expert pollers who are paid by the public to do the exit poll focused on accuracy first, and political food last. I think we could raise enough money to do it all - accuracy, plus what the networks crave.

I'm sure there could be lots of no cost/low cost volunteers, in addition to the money from the public.

More on my post above - on a publicly funded (or public + the Big 6 Networks). Two things to consider - in Q1 2007, Dems raised 80 Million and Repubs raised 50 Million. Think about all the money spent. Certainly all of us could raise a couple million dollars, if that's what the price was. The other thing is that we'd also want to know about the methods used, so that those could also be scrutinized by the public.

It's simple.

The House now knows beyond a reasonable doubt that it has seated the wrong person in at least one instance: Feeney.

And as I explained in an earlier thread the House just doesn't want to hear about such things, and thus has now hidden behind a technicality.

The lesson to politicos is clear: election theft works and once you're in the door you can cease worrying about consequences for the theft even if you are caught.

The rest of us will be left to shoulder the consequences of the theft.

BTW, the wording used to invoke the technicality sounds like someone on the Hill's been reading this blog again, and again came away unclear on the concept. The concept being that sworn affidavits do not displace or invalidate the secret ballot, but that such should only be used sparingly and only in an urgent situation... which this clearly was.

But the House didn't get to piss in this mix and thus doesn't like the taste... so the solution is for the House to first acknowledge that ELECTION THEFT HAPPENS, and then for it to put into place their own "official" ballot recovery techniques... sans the current and overly onerous burdens of proof placed on plaintiffs.

And if the "official" ballot recovery technique somehow still involves DRE printouts then we should just heave out this lot and elect new ones... and repeat until they get the message...

It's an interesting concept. Of course, it MUST change the results of an election (even if that's "cruel to both candidates, and their families") because otherwise, there is no case. There's no victim. (No, voters whose votes are stolen, swapped, or lost are NOT victims in the eyes of the law or the congress --- that has been proven time and time again.)

So, pick two candidates who are supposed to win by big margins and hack them to a tight loss of less than .01%. Then, when the case comes to court, come forward and admit the crime.

As for the wasting money on polls, why bother. The media will not report them. The only purpose of polls is to motivate the people to revolution. If you've got the people armed and ready to go to the streets, then that's a different story.

There were polls in 2000, 2002, 2004 and even 2006. The media ignore them and the people don't care.

The whole world is counting on you to set things right. You, specifically. Not the weakling excuses for journalists of the mainstream, war-profiteering defence-contractor owned media (eg NBC is owned by war profiteer General Electric), counting on continued erosion of anti-trust laws so they can further dominate and smother news. Human rights and democracy all over the planet depend on independent journalism sources such as www.blackboxvoting.org, Raw Story and Bradblog. The world is hungry for *honest* news. American credibility has been seriously undermined, and the fabric of the nation's very democracy mangled by the cowboys, lackeys, corporate whores, and fools who presently hold power in the United States government, and the shameful milquetoast media whores and foul-mouthed wingnut buffoons of the mainstream media. "Lack of evidence" didn't stop these same people from getting into an unnecessary war, but it did stop them from protecting America' democracy, and didn't stop the media whores from behaving like horny and over-excited cheerleaders for Team Chickenhawk. Go figure.

Who is on that committee? I think we need to talk with them. seriously. at their offices. one on one. or 100 on one.

The members of the committee are: 5 dems…
Rep. Robert A. Brady, PA-1st
Rep. Zoe Lofgren, CA-16th
Rep. Mike Capuano, MA-8
Rep. Charles Gonzalez, TX-20
Rep. Susan Davis, CA-53

3 repubs:
Rep. Vernon Ehlers, MI-3,
Rep. Dan Lungren, CA-3
Rep. Kevin McCarthy, CA-22

I was leery of the Dem's all along, now I am certain.

The Democratic caucus is just as capable of following their own interests to the detriment of the people they serve. Republican, Democrat, bah...special interests knows no party affiliation.

Damn.

Can this be formally appealed?

... KestrelBrighteyes said...

"Can this be formally appealed?"

Everybody was relying on the fact that the House has final say on who is seated there... and now the House has knowingly chosen to seat the wrong person for the sake of political expediency.

Here in TN, in our battle to get VVPB made a state law; we keep (for 3 years now...) being stopped by a Dem; a powerful legislator from Memphis; a place that had a proven election fraud attempt last summer. Makes me wonder if the Dems are also in bed with the voting machine vendors, especially in places like Memphis... Makes me wonder about Representative U. Jones...

Bejammin075 #1

That reminds me of the movie where a guy had to fake killing a woman on video to be sentenced to death.

It was done to prove that innocent people are sent to the gas chambers in Texas.

They did not release the video until the guy had been executed ... can't remember the name of the movie.

Brad, I think these cases show that without paper ballots no Contestor can successfully challenge an election. Especially since the law does not allow affidavits unless the Contestee agrees.

Is this the time to note that S 559 (Senate modified version of HR 811), if passed as is, would have prevented such a result?

Guys, guys, c'mon. How about CA50: in that case there's no power or jurisdiction to hear the evidence, and now, where the Congress is forced to admit that there is jurisdiction to hear the evidence, THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

Not only do they not want to hear it, they make statements that in effect directly mean that all evidence that would contradict or impeach SECRET FIRST COUNTS is insufficient, like voter affidavits.

Do we recall Bush v Gore? Both partial recounts (Gore's request) and full recounts (the Florida Supreme Court's order) were struck down. First the US Supreme court stayed the full recount on the grounds that "irreparable damage" would occur to Bush's "apparent victory" when ALL recounts threaten such damage (and appropriately so), and then the court said differences in standards county to county meant that equal protection was violated. Then time ran out on December 13 after the December 12 Bush v Gore second and final opinion.

WHEN IT COUNTS (I'm not talking state races or dog catcher) nothing matters except the first count. I mean presidential races, for example.

Recounts and audits can all be thrown out under broad Bush v. Gore rules. Moreoever, complete flexibility is retained by the US SUpreme court with the language sometimes referred to as the "no precedent" language in the opinion, and thus contrary to popular wisdom the "no precedent" language that says Bush v. Gore is "restricted to its facts" more or less actually makes things far worse, not better.

And, no trade secret information will be produced according to FL-13 trial court rulings, and no sworn affidavits will be considered by EITHER party in the House Admin committee.

So, for how long are bradblog readers going to sit around and assume this whole picture is a good faith or unfortunate process?

Benjamin075: I've been saying that for year. A good guy, hacking the presidential election, and exposing the farce of e-vote democracy. I hope it happens. Doing it legally is taking too long.

Have someone with 1% in the polls, some 3rd party guy, win the presidential election.

The CIA is controlling elections in other countries. They're on record, saying it saves money over a coup. Why is it so unfathomable that it's happening here? Do you think these proven liars "drew the line" in hacking elections in OUR country? Yeah, right! They're "ethical" when it comes to OUR democracy...

Paul: And by "congress", we mean Dems, too! The Dems seem to be hurt, in that anomalies favor Republicans close to 100%...which begs the question, "Are the Dems in on it, for some reason we're not pinpointing?" Why aren't they fighting for e-vote reform? VERY suspicious to me!!!!!!! VERY!!!!!!!!!!

I have to conclude, that the Dems in power are somehow benefitting from "hacking democracy." There is no other conclusion.

This implies, that there is no difference between the Dems & Republicans in power, and the "liberal Dems" and the "conservative Republicans" are the ones targetted by e-voting. There's an extremely low amount of liberal Dems and conservative Republicans. Just about non-existent.

But they tell us the Dems are liberal (false) and the Republicans are conservative (false). For the most part, they are very similar to me.

And, BD, Congress apparently considers it its responsibility to protect corporations at all costs at the expense of the people. That's what I get out of it.

Here's is the 'real rub':
https://bradblog.com/?p=4522#comment-223791

Thanks Dredd; the question I keep coming up with is why are all these cases regarding election issues being 'lost' for the most part(Finley's Alameda verdict and Cayhouga County notwithstanding) ? It would seem as though the plaintiff's are not being well served by their attorney's; if depositions were what was necessary, why weren't those gathered -instead of affidavits-in the Feeney challenge?
I have watched case after case where the 'logic' was correct only to have the court's judgment not confirm the logic because the case law being used wasn't sufficiently researched or acted upon.
Wish I had an answer.

... big dan said on 5/9/2007 @ 6:56 am PT...

...

The CIA is controlling elections in other countries. They're on record, saying it saves money over a coup.

cite?

I hate to say it, but affadavits don't trump.

That being said, I agree with much of what Paul Lehto says, and particularly that the grand weakness of the audit concept is that
a) If you wait to announce results until audits are done, you facilitate tampering

but

b) Anything after the election results are announced is subject to cancellation at will.

By the way, when I mentioned that the Holt Bill does nothing whatever to facilite counting in public or public oversight, I was told it could be a step toward a goal. Well, a goal isn't a goal unless you state it. Therefore, the Holt Bill is NOT a step toward the goal of counting in public with public oversight. What it is, I'm not exactly sure because it doesn't give us public oversight and doesn't get the right candidate in office.

Everything about the situation where "someone in charge" gets to keep the only copy that legally matters of peoples' ballots, in an essentially blind trust is promoting the chances of cheating being effective! From the time the ballots leave the legitimate voters' hands to the time they are recorded through the legal challenge period they are subject to risks of subtraction, addition or alteration. Possession might just as well be 99/100 of the law, not 9/10.

Face it folks, voting has become a contact sport, if it ever stopped being one.

... Ahhh... Brant Lamb and his mortal dread of the secret ballot... come in, we've been expecting you

... and now the question Brant has yet to answer... What happens to the voters when turning over their voting record to the administration (or anyone else who wants it) becomes mandatory.

Does RFK Jr.'s lawsuit seem important. Last I heard he was undr a gag order. . Says Karl Rove and Tim Griffin should go to jail for criminal offenses re. election fraud.Could it be that this is the way it's all going to come out? Surely John Conyers didn't just give up and forget the massive amount of time and work documented in the Ohio fiasco.

The answer is that there are a lot more voters than there are "administration", and Franklin's quote is true, "We must all hang together or we will all hang separately"; if this is a matter of public record you will have plenty of people who feel the same way who can at least stand up for you, currently, you don't even have that.

And "The Zapkitty'? Nice framing, I don't have any 'mortal dread' of the secret ballot, I just am perfectly capable of recognizing the enabling precursors for a con game when I see them. And we know the answer to what happens when we can't verify our votes: we get the crap that we've been getting lately.

If you had exhaustive, accurate exit polling, you could keep the secret ballot. Odd, that you can't get any exit polling data anymore, it isn't published. And the truth is folks, even if you had decent exit polling, the current media noise machine could, and would, shout it down.

A lot of what Paul Lehto has said is exactly right, if the first count is whacked, we're screwed.

A Congress compromised through blackmailing with information obtained through illegal and unchecked surveillance, electronic and otherwise, could be used to force members to do whatever someone wanted. No one is perfect. Keep enough of the compromised individuals in power, and voila! You would have what appears to be a balanced group of Dems and Repubs, yet all are compromised! Don't get me wrong, I don't think that our whole congress is compromised; but it could be, if the people we vote for are not the ones seated to power, for whatever reason. Ah, but what do I know...

Clints endeavor was a great hope for me. It's dead now. All those people who worked the streets for nothing in Florida must be beside themselves with a feeling of detachment.

Why do I keep thinking of a guy dying in a bath tub who deserved a better outcome for his sacrifice?

This is a very sad day...

Wait.. are you saying there's a chance voting machines may not be perfect? ::rolls eyes:: hehe. There are way too many "good ol boys" getting away with waaayy too much crap right now. Sometimes I feel like I might as well stop voting.