READER COMMENTS ON
"The False Dichotomies Being Used by Democrats and Their Public-Advocacy Group Supporters to Prop Up the Failings of the Holt Election Reform Bill"
(34 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/20/2007 @ 2:42 pm PT...
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmen BROTHER!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Charlie L
said on 2/20/2007 @ 3:27 pm PT...
So, Brad, who is there in of the 435 in the house of Representatives who can be called upon to offer up the necessary Amendments to fix this?
Who wants to be known for having stood up and presented the solution. Let's call them "The Blumenauer Amendments" (for want of a better option, I'll offer up my own Rep., though I have no reason to believe he's far-sighted enough or sufficiently educated on election reform to actually DO it) that would FIX Holt?
If nothing else, how each and every congressperson votes on "The Blumenauer Amendments" would make it clear where they stood on election reform?
So, who do we go after? Brad, you were in there helping with "the drafting" so you must have figured out who among those beltway boys actually GETS it and who is just going along for the ride. GIVE US SOMEBODY TO PUSH! Tell us who might take up the mantle.
And while everybody is standing on the train tracks watching the big white light come towards them and hoping to stop this train (a lose/lose either way) is anybody actually WRITING what needs to be fixed? You know what's MISSING from the draft, that's where we start with the amendments. If the current draft doesn't work to make elections better, LET'S MAKE IT WORK. Nothing in Congress is final until the ink is dry --- it's not too late to repair this bill, we just need a champion who is willing to go out there and be the "election reform candidate."
Let's fix Holt, because I really don't believe we can STOP it, and if we do, what have we got then? NOTHING but the already broken system. It's a lose/lose, and personally, I'm getting real sick of losing battles that had no winning side.
Let's FIX Holt and have a win/win.
CharlieL
Portland, OR
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Joan Brunwasser
said on 2/20/2007 @ 3:35 pm PT...
Well said, Brad. Thanks for laying it out so clearly.
Joan B, OpEdNews
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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howdy
said on 2/20/2007 @ 4:03 pm PT...
Before beginning my shill-based heresy, I agree there are no legitimate reasons to use DRE technology in American democracy. They should not be reviewed or upgraded or yet another adapter added to their printer.
Now, I wonder where False Dichotomy number 3 came from? In California, the strangest language state in the Union, Santa Clara County, for example, prints multiple languages including three different symbol-based languages for absentee ballots. Who sends out only English absentee ballots if they are required by the Voting Rights Act to provide additional languages? Whoever it is needs some quality time with the US DOJ. (I know some States don't have as liberal an absentee voting as CA but they may soon)
Does BRAD BLOG get money from AutoMARK? AutoMARK does not verify and it does not guarantee a secret ballot. It's a good start but just not legal.
As to the spin on Elections Officials, why not get rid of them? They seem to be the root of all the problems in the first place. I question here again why promote the hate? Why "rabble-rouse"? It turns the whole dialog into a Faux News Debate with everyone shouting. To say that all workers have "sold their souls and our democracy to those same companies." is to quote you again, "...misinformed or misled (or dare I say, disingenuous?)"
{Ed. Note: For the record, neither Brad, nor anyone associated with BRAD BLOG, has ever received any compensation or consideration of any kind from any voting machine company or elections entity. BRAD BLOG is supported by online advertising and the kindness and generosity of individual donors. --- DES}
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Brad Friedman
said on 2/20/2007 @ 4:16 pm PT...
Howdy misquoted me with:
As to the spin on Elections Officials, why not get rid of them? ... To say that all workers have "sold their souls and our democracy to those same companies." is to quote you again, "...misinformed or misled (or dare I say, disingenuous?)"
As a Santa Clara election official, surely you know the difference between an election official and a poll worker. I did not say "all" officials, and certainly didn't refer to "workers".
Speaking of "misinforming and misleading".
As to Elections Officials, however, the ones who are far more interested in expedience, versus democracy, I'm happy to call them out.
That does NOT, of course, include ALL Elections Officials. There are a number of great ones. Ion Sancho in Florida and Freddie Oakley in Yolo County, CA come to mind to name just a couple. I wish there were many many more.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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Bev Harris
said on 2/20/2007 @ 4:17 pm PT...
Charlie L --- Yes, there are those that are actually writing what needs to be fixed --- and already have --- see the concise and precisely written set of Essential Revisions to the Holt Bill at VotersUnite, which has been signed off on by many of the major election reform groups, including my own, Black Box Voting.
And there will be more.
The story Brad has done here --- and the brilliant report Nancy Tobi has written which currently is the lead story at Black Box Voting, which exposes the EAC certification system --- and the procurement requirements in the Holt Bill --- as a Ponzi fraud scheme --- well these are important stories.
Somehow, when people think carefully and research diligently, as Brad has done here and as Nancy has done, instead of saying "thank you for helping us understand how to avoid pitfalls and reach a better solution" they are being immediately hit with "so what are YOU doing?"
That assumes, first of all, that every journalist must be a lobbyist --- try asking Zachary Goldfarb from the Washington Post if he writes a critical article "So what legislation have YOU passed?"
This confuses the role of a journalist with the role of a lobbyist.
It also assumes that the first one out of the gate with legislative proposals --- no matter how flawed --- somehow has a claim to the high ground here. In fact, "something" is not better than "nothing" (even if that were the case, as Brad points out it is NOT) --- well something is NOT better than nothing if it's dangerous to democratic elections.
So yes, there are many working on both amendments and more appropriate legislation. And yes, it is entirely appropriate to challenge the "foxhole mentality" that apparently blocks some legislators from doing anything meaningful about election reform.
Bev Harris
Founder - Black Box Voting
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Bev Harris
said on 2/20/2007 @ 4:22 pm PT...
I will make one more observation here, as I just noticed in re-reading that Charlie L believes that it is inevitable that this legislation will pass.
I will be astounded if this passes.
Two words: Unfunded mandate.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Mort Silverman
said on 2/20/2007 @ 5:38 pm PT...
{Ed Note: Post deleted. Disinformation. "Mort," while you are welcome to use an alias here, you are not welcome to offer disinformation about who you are and what your agenda is here. Consider this a warning, and that I'm being very kind in not naming who you are. Suffice to say, knock it off. Misleading folks is no better when done by someone on "our side" than it is when it's done by Voting Machine Companies or "bad guy" Election Officials. That is one of the (very few) rules for commenting here at BRAD BLOG. Thank you. And you're welcome. --- BF}
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 2/20/2007 @ 6:21 pm PT...
Welcome to the new way in 2007 Bushit Fascist Amerikka.
Nice work Brad. This piece may not awaken those people who seriously need a good kick in the ace, however your investigative insite is a most valuable contribution on this issue. Exposing the desperate state of elections defines you as a modern American Patriot. So cool.
Unfortunately it becomes more and more obvious now that Corporate Team Republidem DOES NOT have the inclination or soul to fix the system..only the vote in the next one:)
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 2/20/2007 @ 8:52 pm PT...
Fine clear piece, Brad. Hope it is circulated widely and to the right places. I think we are seeing a form of "triangulation" again. How many votes are we willing to sacrifice for something that will "satisfy" as many constituencies as possible? Well, that's not the question..It's a matter of principle (and the one constituency that matters)- that the voter knows as well as can be known that his or her vote was accurately counted. (Can anyone say DRE's provide that accurate knowledge?) It's not something that can be negotiated, compromised.
As you accurately state, going beyond triangualtion, beyond "legislating from the foxhole", demands leadership. Leadership is derived from principles. Who has them?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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patginsd
said on 2/20/2007 @ 9:39 pm PT...
Thanks Brad for the excellent post on this most important issue and continuing danger to our nation.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Brad Friedman
said on 2/20/2007 @ 10:00 pm PT...
Charlie L asked:
So, who do we go after? Brad, you were in there helping with "the drafting" so you must have figured out who among those beltway boys actually GETS it and who is just going along for the ride. GIVE US SOMEBODY TO PUSH! Tell us who might take up the mantle.
Sorry, I didn't have time to answer this question until now, Charlie. Hope you'll catch it.
For the moment, short of an announced, specific campaign (and one may be coming), it's important to get these details and these stories and the need to ban DRE's in favor of paper ballots which are actually counted to ALL members of Congress.
More specifically, however, I'd point you --- in addition to the article above (for which the URL is: https://bradblog.com/?p=4163) to two different documents to share with them for now.
One is the Paper Ballot Campaign open letter to Congress members. It's here:
http://www.VelvetRevolut...s/Campaigns/PaperBallots
As well, and as you asked for specific amendment language, please see this document, "Essential Revisions to HR 811," for some of the most needed changes:
http://www.votersunite.o...11EssentialRevisions.htm
And to specific Congress members right now, I'd suggest Dianne Feinstein (who will oversee Election Reform legislation in the Senate Admin Comm. which she chairs, and who can file a bill to fix Holt's).
And on the House side, I'd focus on getting the message to Juanita Millender-McDonald who now chairs the House Admin Comm. (Bob Ney's old job), as she will be overseeing Holt's legislation in committee, and has also be talking about filing her own bill. But she needs HELP, big time to understand what's at stake here! I'd recommend sending her the three docs mentioned above.
And again, ALL members. Including in the House: Conyers, Waters, Tubbs-Jones. And in the Senate: Boxer, Feingold, Dodd and the rest of 'em who are running for President!
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Larry Bergan
said on 2/20/2007 @ 10:41 pm PT...
I hate to even comment on such a great summation of the current race toward epic buyers remorse, (again), but I have been one who advocates hand counted paper ballots out of the fear that technical computer language would be used as a tool to purposefully confuse what should be a simple plan to count our votes.
Even grandma and grandpa understand paper ballots counted by hand.
I would throw any personal arrogance or argument that "I was always right" to the dogs if we were allowed to use...
Federally mandated optical scan machines with publicly-disclosed source code and a scientifically accurate random hand-audit.
...whether grandma and grandpa understand it or not.
However, a fight over publicly disclosed source code would delve into a fight, (albeit, a very interesting one), over whether corporations could retain their person-hood, making it even more "unwinnable" then a fight for HCPB.
Might as well shove another useless bill through congress and "MoveOn", Huh Democrats.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/21/2007 @ 5:42 am PT...
Will voting be an issue after this law passed by the republican dictatorship is used:
An editorial in the New York Times yesterday pointed out, for those of us who didn't realize it, that the Bush administration had inserted two provisions into last October's defense budget bill that would make it easier to declare martial law in the US. Senators Leahy and Bond have introduced a bill to repeal these changes, and it is important that
voters keep track of this bill and hold their Congresspeople to account on it. Along with several other measures the Bush adminstration has proposed, the introduction of these changes amounts, not to an attack on the Congress and the balance of power, but to a particular and concerted attack on the citizens of the nation. Bush is laying the legal groundwork to repeal even the appearance of democracy.
(link to article, emphasis added). Some of you will feel or think inside "that can never happen". That is how the majority of Americans look at the notion of worrying about electronic voting machines ("that can never happen"). Which of the two does not have the right to an opinion?
There is nothing wrong with proving that in 1985 the New York Times was printing panic stories about electronic voting machines:
Concern had been heightened by a series of articles published in the summer of 1985 in the New York Times. The articles cited statements by two computer experts reporting that a computer program widely used for vote-tallying was vulnerable to tampering. Several elections were identified in which losing candidates claimed that it would be possible to fraudulently alter the computer programs that were used in their contests.
(Official U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 1988 Report, emphasis added), or that voting machine activists were very well aware of the problem too:
DURING the past quarter of a century, with hardly anyone noticing, the inner workings of democracy have been computerized. All our elections, from mayor to President, are counted locally, in about ten thousand five hundred political jurisdictions, and gradually, since 1964, different kinds of computer-based voting systems have been installed in town after town, city after city, county after county. This year, fifty-five per cent of all votes-seventy-five per cent in the largest jurisdictions-will be counted electronically. If ninety-five million Americans vote on Tuesday, November 8th, the decisions expressed by about fifty-two million of them will be tabulated according to rules that programmers and operators unknown to the public have fed into computers.
(Dugger 1988, emphasis added). If these articles and reports are not shown to be false, then the premise of my logic is valid.
No less than Bev Harris informs us that things in some contexts have even gotten worse in the past two years:
On Valentine's Day two years ago, Black Box Voting was in Leon County, Florida with Dr. Hugh Thompson, proving that the Diebold GEMS system can be hacked in less than 60 seconds using a simple trojan horse script. GEMS is still in use and now it's in more places than ever. And the debate rages on about whether we should have voting machines at all.
(Bev Harris Post, emphasis added). My premise is considerable, seeing as how it is both up to date and goes back over 40 years to 19 freakin 64 people.
Now since my premise on the substance is valid, I feel safe within the realm of valid deduction in saying that we need a different strategy in the electronic voting machine movement.
We need to work with the movers and shakers in a way they will recognize as valid, and develop a working relationship with them, not with ourselves.
The first order of business would be to identify the current electronic voting machine activist's strategy ... which is 40 years old and failing.
BTW the definition of a "bill" includes its final version, after having gone thru the amendment process and the bi-cameral morph where and when the senate and house versions fuse together.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/21/2007 @ 6:08 am PT...
Charlie L #2
Well said ... see ... insurrections aren't always bad.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/21/2007 @ 7:39 am PT...
Brad #12
Do you target "the democrats" (a hundred million people or so), some of which haven't had the time to update all the congressional websites to the 110th from the 109th congress yet, and not "the republicans" (a hundred million people or so), some of which just filibustered the people's will against escalation in Iraq?
Those democrats now in the majority in congress have effectively had about a month in the saddle up to now, and have begun to tackle the Iraq debacle, held 52+ oversite hearings, and introduced a host of bills to repeal the fascism of the 109th republican led congress.
Tom Hayden has a good idea that I think will work for election machine activists:
We will never win the argument against pollution and the decline of species by driving our Priuses ...
An environmentalism that does not speak of Iraq, one that speaks of global warming but not of global suffering, is an environmentalism that seeks only to replace Caesar's chariots with more fuel-efficient models ...
And so I ask you tonight, in the best spirit of your tradition, to rise up and stop this latest and most lethal chapter of the Crusades.
(No More Crusades).
My post #14 shows that in the 40 years of election machine history and activism against it, the case only gets worse.
I feel that the movement is a Crusade masking as a political movement. If it were political it would have always dealt with those who have the political power and would have done so effectively. After all, your rhetoric is not much different than those saying not being for the Iraq escalation are unpatriotic. You say:
The [democrat's] argument is utter hogwash
the Democrats ... are doing their dirty work for [Diebold, et. al]
[democrats] have conveniently been hypnotized into believing
The tortured, backwards [democrat] logic
the Democrats ... seem to be willing to gamble with our democracy
A crusade is like a fire and is never satisfied with anything other than obliterating something ... which in this case has failed to remove bad voting practices even tho it has exposed those bad voting practices with scientific, rather than crusader, precision.
Time to replace crusader anti-voting machine wars with diplomatic outreaches to those who can fix it, by not first condemning them then asking them then condemning them some more.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/21/2007 @ 7:56 am PT...
What I want to see is the hard data on COSTS!
That information alone I believe is enough reason to DUMP DRE'S IN THE RECYCLE BIN and sue to get our money back! I don't believe they have lived up to their accuracy claims.
How much does it cost to count votes on all the existing systems, INCLUDING MAINTENANCE COSTS and the cost of HAND COUNTING WITH PUBLIC OVERSIGHT. This of coarse isn't my bottom line on what system should be used, but it sure as hell is one of the best reasons for dumping DRE'S if I'm not mistaken. And everyone knows how much politicians love to tell us how much money they are saving us!
As far as I have been able to tell the AutoMark system is the securest when it comes to electronic counting, but can we PLEASE estimate hand counting costs too!!!!!!!!!!
ISN'T THAT PART OF WHAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN A REASONED DECISION???????????????????????????????????????
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/21/2007 @ 8:06 am PT...
Yes Dredd, victory is sweeter when you can pull the blacksheep back into the herd!
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/21/2007 @ 8:53 am PT...
Sorry off topic, but important too!
FCC HEARINGS IN HARRISBURG ON FRIDAY WITH PUBLIC COMMENT TIME!!!!!!!!!
I've got to write a 2 minute speech and practice the old public speaking skills so I can ask Mr. FCC Kevin Martin face to face how putting our PUBLIC AIRWAVES and MEDIA OWNERSHIP into fewer and fewer hands is in any way, shape, or form making democracy healthier!
Wish me luck folks, its a first come first serve public comment basis.
And yes Brad, I'm taking a video camera with me to the hearings in Harrisburg on Friday 9-1 o'clock. Info here.
I guess its time to put my BE THE MEDIA bumpersticker on my car. I have gotten beeps and thumbs up on my WHO IS CLINT CURTIS one!
Jeez I've gotten active since I've been coming here! Thanks for the inspiration !
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 2/21/2007 @ 8:56 am PT...
Brad --- I hope the poor delicate Democratic souls will be able to deal with some strong and honest language because otherwise they are not likely to be of the mettle to handle the real problems facing our nation.
But I think many of them will be able to engage in a spirited dialogue without throwing away democracy in a snit.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/21/2007 @ 1:24 pm PT...
My statement "The autoMark is the securest when it comes to electronic counting" is incorrect in so far as they don't actually do the counting. They just mark a ballot to be counted by some other means. Sorry, I did't mean to be confusing.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Brad Friedman
said on 2/21/2007 @ 5:40 pm PT...
In response to Dredd's criticism of my criticism of the Dems and their supporters here...
My comments in the article above are based on deliberate and painstaking research and discussion with the players involved. I point to the Dems (and, perhaps more significantly) their publicly-advocacy groups because it's become quite clear to me that they are the reason the Dems have, currently, settled on the indefensible position they have.
There is a palpable fear of coming out against minority-supportive positions (even with those positions don't hold up to scrutiny). Break down those unsubstantiated positions, and maybe --- just maybe --- the rest of the mountain will move with it.
Unfortunately, the Republicans did not write this bill. Nor is their position one that seems to be key to the way in which it was written. Infact, at least one or two Republicans (Crist and Browning in FL, along with the Dem Wexler) are ahead of the curve, in front of the Dems on this one.
As to the call here for Hand Counted Paper Ballots, this note is long already, but I'll speak more to it in the future. Suffice for now to say that you can't hand count paper ballots until and unless you actually have paper ballots to hand count. Nothing in the Holt bill (if we were to be able to see it changed to REQUIRE a real paper ballot) keeps any locality from going to all HCPB if that's what they, or folks on the ground, wanted to try and accomplish.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Joe Davis
said on 2/21/2007 @ 6:20 pm PT...
If Congress has the guts to ban DRE voting machines, optical-scan ballot-readers operated with the vendor’s proprietary software is the most likely alternative to get approval. However, it would be imperative that the votes counted by these machines be independently audited by hand-counting a random sample of ballots of sufficient size to have a 99% chance of detecting errors or fraudulent manipulation. Then it wouldn’t matter if the software were secret because an adequate audit would expose programming errors or programming introduced to change the vote count.
Since cost will be a key issue, it must be emphasized that each polling place would require only one optical-scan machine instead of many DRE’s. And op-scans are much less costly to maintain. Op-scans are a proven technology going back 10-15 years and are much less likely to fail in service.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/22/2007 @ 5:12 am PT...
Brad's co-post with Emily Levy today about Maxine Waters shows that there is an open ear in the democratic party to our concerns about Holt's bill. Thanks for that good news Brad.
Brad and Emily Levy pointed out that Maxine Waters is willing to withdraw her co-sponsorship of the Holt bill ... I hope she will withhold withdrawing co-sponsorship until she first tells the others her reasoning.
Possibly that will allow the filing of amendments early on in the process, and then she could be an advocate for the paper ballot and other changes we seek as a conditional co-sponsor. We would have a sympathetic insider where we could confidently voice our observations. There is time to do this properly.
Anyway, after 40 years of a bad machine system getting even worse, we have a platform to debate the issues we are all familiar with.
I just want success for us ... 40 years is long enough to wait ... and I feel that with the dems we have a better chance ... and I do not want to blow it by challenging their patriotism because they don't see it our way.
That is too much like Cheney:
Vice President Dick Cheney on Wednesday harshly criticized Democrats' attempts to thwart President Bush's troop buildup in Iraq, saying their approach would "validate the al-Qaida strategy." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (news, bio, voting record) fired back that Cheney was questioning critics' patriotism. "I hope the president will repudiate and distance himself from the vice president's remarks," Pelosi said. She said she tried to complain about Cheney to President Bush but could not reach him. "You cannot say as the president of the United States, 'I welcome disagreement in a time of war,' and then have the vice president of the United States go out of the country and mischaracterize a position of the speaker of the House and in a manner that says that person in that position of authority is acting against the national security of our country," the speaker said.
(link here, emphasis added).
The dems are a little tired of being called terrorist sympathizers, etc. for wanting to correct the Iraq debacle.
Democrats Conyers, Clint Curtis, Pelosi, and Maxine Waters are not anti-democracy simply because they are technically not as saavy as some in the movement are, or are of a different understanding of the civil rights issues in the bill.
We can educate them about our concerns, but we should not denigrate them at this point of the process. It is only the beginning of the bill, not the final version.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/22/2007 @ 7:11 am PT...
Somewhat OT. The strategy of the dems a la Iraq escalation has been called traitorous by Cheney in post #24. However, note this:
To capture the enemy's entire army is better than to destroy it; to take intact a regiment, a company, or a squad is better than to destroy them. For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy. Next best is to disrupt his alliances by diplomacy. The next best is to attack his army. And the worst policy is to attack cities.
(Sun Tsu, recognized as one of the greatest military tacticians of all times), emphasis added.
As the incompetent fascist Bush regime, like Hitler invading Russia in winter, plans to now invade the suburbs of Baghdad, Sun Tsu is getting louder.
Maybe the same can be used in electronic voting machine strategies ... peace not war.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/22/2007 @ 10:15 am PT...
Dredd is the Sun Tsu quote from "The Art of War?" My copy is in storage right now.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/22/2007 @ 12:22 pm PT...
And speaking of war anybody see this!
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 2/22/2007 @ 12:51 pm PT...
Ancient, #26
Yes. That is from The Art of War, just not a very elegant translation.... And, in an effort to prove it to you, I just now realize that Agent 86 stole my copy of Cleary's translation.... Shit.
Anyone who wishes to help peace prevail would do well to memorize The Art of War and Thomas Cleary's translation is far and away the best.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/22/2007 @ 1:09 pm PT...
Thanks 99. I do believe that is the translation I have somewhere also. But did you check out the next post? YIKES STRIKES!
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 2/22/2007 @ 4:19 pm PT...
Ancient... Maybe this will counter the horror somewhat. We really can always hope our military will refuse to start World War Three.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/22/2007 @ 9:05 pm PT...
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh........ Thank you again 99! I'm still workin on my 2 public minutes for saving democracy from more korporatization/monoply (why aren't there antitrust suits already?) Oh yeah, Kevin Martin following in Collin Powell's son footsteps.
That article really helps to enfuse one with true patriotism! Seems like there is more of it around in the unimaginably tuff spots those guys are in these days!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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Larry Bergan
said on 2/23/2007 @ 1:59 am PT...
Ancient:
Try and let us know if C-span is covering the public testimony in front of the FCC. The last one I saw was dynamite.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Ancient
said on 2/23/2007 @ 5:22 pm PT...
Hey Larry someone, possibly the FCC itself was streaming it live so it should be documented somewhere. Sorry but someone asked me a question when they said who, so i missed it. I did how ever video tape the whole thing and will have my daughter help me down load/edit it. I only got 2 hours sleep yesterday, drove though a snow storm, then did the dreaded public speaking thing. I need a break from everything to go hug my boyfriend for a while. Later.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Larry Bergan
said on 2/23/2007 @ 10:12 pm PT...
Darn this dial-up! It's unlikely I'll be able to see it unless it's on C-span. Good for you for taping it though.