So why isn't Busby asking for a hand count? ABC and AP would probably counter that since Busby isn't contesting the results, they aren't going to either.

STANDING! It's all about STANDING.

Until our candidates stop fearing the label and frame of "sore losers" and "costing the taxpayers money" nothing will change.

Our candidates must pledge to fight to the end. They must be prepared to take on the mantel of "protecting the most important right of Democracy" and "making sure that the winner will have the full and undivided respect of their constituents through a thorough PROOF that they won" and "returning trust and confidence in the vote counting so that Americans will be more involved in their Democracy."

In short, whether men or women, THEY MUST HAVE SOME BALLS!

Clearly, Busby doesn't. Even Paul Hacket didn't. They all had that great role model KERRY to learn from --- blowhard ballless master of them all.

Maybe the next Democrat to be screwed will stand up and FIGHT for our Democracy.

Even if the final manual vote count of paper ballots was identical to the electronically tabulated results (or gave MORE votes to the Republican) it would still be an invalauble service to Democracy.

Our enemy is not the scumbag lying cheating and stealing Republicans, but the stupid and frightened Democrats.

Charlie L
Portland, OR

You go Brad.
www.patrickdodd.com

Were all the absentee/provisional ballots counted?

Hey Libs! Was the capture of Zarqawi good for America?

I meant 'killing' not capture.

The Schmidt-Hackett "Humidity Crisis"

Go into this article above, and look for "The Humidity Crisis", and then "Unanswered Questions About The Humidity Crisis."

Something "funny" always happens, when a Democrat might upset a Republican, in a Republican district. THEN...the Republican always wins 51%-49%!!!

Warren County Terror Alert Lockdown During Election

Brad, thanks ... we're reading you and paying attention!

I looked at the final results in today's Los Angeles Times (page B9). The results look suspicious. Someone needs to to a quick statistical analysis on the vote counts.

In the primary race, total republican votes were 58,365 (32,117 for Bilbray). In the special election votes for Bilbray were 60,319.

In the primary race, total democratic votes were 45,868 (41,165 for Busby). In the special election, votes for Busby were 55,587.

There were 17,493 more votes in the special election (including 6,367 votes for libertarian & independent candidates).

If Bilbray won the special election, pigs fly!

Someone should obtain the precinct vote counts for other offices and compare the results. This race fails the smell test.

I've got an idea. (so what's new)

What if we ask that a certain percent of any donation we make to a campaign is used for the "verification phase" of any race - using Brad's formula? Otherwise, our donated campaign money could be just going down a hole.

So. Who does the liberal media bring out today to counter the great news? Nick Bergs father. Remeber our discussion on using the bereaved for selfish reasons? Just yesterday?

https://bradblog.com/arc...es/00002926.htm#comments

On a day of great victory, liberals do this.
Its sickening. God forbid a liberal be happy for the killing of a mass murderer. No, its bushs fault.

Being proven right, day after day.

Ricky

Brad,

I have a question as per your offer.

Is there an audit trail roll on the DRE votes? If not, I can see your point, and quite agree.

If there is a paper trail on the DRE votes, why do you dismiss them entirely? Yes, many voters don't look at the paper, due to indifference or poor design of the printer, but some do. Why do you dismiss the DRE entirely if it has the VVPAT?

Question is legit, not rhetorical.

Thanks,

Kurt

Lou Dobbs should cover this. He's on a roll with electronic voting machines.

LOU??? HELP US!!!!!!

This could be huge, if there's a hand recount, because this is happening real time. Where are the Dems and Busby on this, too?

Charlie's right --- how can we expect the MSM to pick up on these questionable elections if the candidates themselves aren't willing to raise a stink? I understand the desire not to look like a conspiracy theorist or tinfoil hat-wearer, but at some point, isn't taking a stand worth the risk? If the Busby election is truly suspect (which I believe it is), she and her supporters, NOT Brad Friedman, should be the ones yelling the loudest about it.

And Ricky, please shut the fuck up already. The killing of Zarqawi will have about as much positive impact on the war in Iraq as the capture of Saddam did (which is NONE, despite what Faux "News" would have your dumb ass believe). Nice PR for the White House, but too little, too late. Bush should've killed him in 2002 when he had several opportunities.

So how many times did we kill Zarqawi now? 3? Didn't he die back in 2004 as well?

I think the best thing that could happen would be retroactive telephone polling of people who actually voted to see who people thought they were voting for. Just like exit polls. If results come out very skewed it would be pretty good evidence. Dem candidates who feel that the results are overwhelmingly wrong could perhaps ask university statistical departments to do the polling as a project. Or there are wealthy Dems out there who could pay for the local polling. This is probably the only way to get around this sort of thing and work out whats happening.

Forget any help from the Democratic party. Or from Busby, who likely just doesn't get the magnitude of what may have happened to her.

I'm going to ask Debra Bowen to call Busby's people and try to explain it to them.

Aside from Letters to the editor of the main San Diego Papers (Done and Done) what else can we do?

I was unable to tell whether Busby has demanded (and will get) a recount. Do you know/
Oh, and by the way, Brad, I have some problems with your logic. Your use of the logical operators 'Unless' and "only if' is very odd and confusing. (I'm a logician

OK we need a wealthy Donor NOW to pay for some exit polling. If I had the money believe me I would pay.

We are also scheduled to kill Zarqawi again around Halloween. I've seen the memo.

America suceeds, no story on Bradblog.

Americans die. Many stories on Bradblog.

Liberalism is invested in defeat. You dont find good news about America here, because they consider a loss for them.

Its just that simple. Use the search engine. Find out for yourselves.

Its ok to be happy for your country liberals. Its ok, smile.

here's a hypothetical which I am in no way suggesting or endorsing. I am simply putting it out there as an academic exercise. I wonder what would happen if someone or group of people were to somehow work it out to rig elections through the various voting machines in favor of a fictional character, or some historical figure or something. I mean, if these machines can be hacked, then surely one of the Brad Blog readers should be able to get to one of more of the machines in order to hack it , to prove that it can be hacked, and do so in a very funny way. The question is: do you think that the above hypothetical would get the mainstream media to wake up to the potential for fraud?

What are you talking about, Ricky? No one on this blog has said they were sorry Zarqawi was killed. You are the person who keeps bringing it up. Everyone is happy he is dead. He looks dead in the picture, anyway. Got what he deserved. HURRAY!
Can we bring the troops home now?

There has to be some dynamic here that we are missing.

Was it stolen? Brad, you make a fine case.

But this is merely security-type information that should be corrected in the future.

If Karl Rove hacked it (or ordered it hacked), we have to find evidence. If there is no "fingerprint" of evidence left... then we need to find a way to trap Karl (or his minions) in the November elections.

And Ricky... I am happy that Zarqawi was col'-187'ed. But, I'll reserve the cork-popping for when I see bin Laden's head on a silver platter... and Mullah Mohammed Omar's head... and Ayman al-Zawahiri's head, etc.

We liberals are not afraid of war. We just think that Iraq is the WRONG war.

Afghanistan is the right front in the War on Terror.... as would be Darfur, Sudan... and possibly Myannmar and North Korea (whom we KNOW ALREADY has nukes and sells it to the highest bidder... yet gets ignored by Bush Co.) Other places are appropriate fronts as well.

"But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not justice." - Jesus

"George Bush couldn't find Osama Bin Laden even if he wanted to." - The Freeway Blogger

RICKY - American democracy is at stake. Real time. Right now. Knock off the off-topic comments in this important thread, or you're banned. You're really trying my patience. You can make them in other more appropriate threads as needed. Or on the thousands of message boards discussing that topic at this point.

V. KURT BELLMAN asked:

Is there an audit trail roll on the DRE votes? If not, I can see your point, and quite agree.

If there is a paper trail on the DRE votes, why do you dismiss them entirely? Yes, many voters don't look at the paper, due to indifference or poor design of the printer, but some do. Why do you dismiss the DRE entirely if it has the VVPAT?

Question is legit, not rhetorical.

Yes, there is an "audit trail" on the DRE's in San Diego. See the original story with details. I don't dismiss them entirely, as you suggest. But rather, their is trouble with them due to the design of Diebold's machines which --- inexplicably --- places a door (that poll workers or voters) may close.

Previous elections with these machines have shown that voters thereafter, when the door is closed, don't realize there is a paper trail there to verify. See the photo of the door in the previous article.

That said, I don't dismiss them out of hand. There is a level of near-scientific certainty that could still be achieved depending on the results of the op-scan count. But the only way to prove without a doubt that the results are 100% legit is in the scenario I provided above in the story.

Hope that answers. I'll try to keep my eye here for followups.

SALLY - A poll *now* means nothing. It's just a guess. We have BALLOTS that can be counted. Let's count *them*!

CYTERIA - I'll check my words to clarify. In trying to be extra clear, I probably wasn't clear enough

What were the results of the absentee/provisional ballots?!

Yes Brad I agree lets count them but whats a bet Republicans make it so you can't. This has happened over and over republicans halting democrats from recounting votes in suspicious circumstances but dems allowing Republicans full recounts. Bet you they have something planned this time to stop or rigg re-counting.

A poll based on actual voters who voted would mean something if the republicans try to obstruct and prevent recounts which you can bet your life they will be doing if there was something suspect with the results. They are fighting for their lives now this is more in the open. If they loose control they know jail is on the agenda.

On Topic:

Are these absentee/provisional ballots being checked to ensure the voters are from this country? Califonia has over 3 million illegal immigrants right now. Can this election be verfied unless we are certain that illegal immigrants have not voted? Isnt it important we ensure that American democracy is not stolen?

I would say we should just check but then we cant because there is not a clear paper trail. You are right! Who thinks we need to ensure that only valid votes are cast and not fraudulent ones? Lets stop illegal voting and ensure that elections are verifiable!

Without an appropriate paper trail that ensures legal voting, that will never be. Without stricter id policy there is no basis for confidence in the reported election results.

American democracy is at stake. Many will join your fight as long as everyone can agree that verifable legal votes are the only ones counted.

SALLY - Tell ya what, if the people in SD's 50th surround the Registrar of Voters office NOW Ukraine style and DEMAND that they PROVE the results of the election something may get done.

A poll will mean nothing. No matter what it shows, it will be dismissed as nothing more than a poll.

We've got BALLOTS. We payed for those BALLOTS and those elections and the officials' salaries who ran the elections!

MAKE THEM DO THEIR JOB NOW!

oh, brad. i feel your anger and i get where it comes from. i wrote something similarly passionate after the kennedy thing and i am so disappointed by the silence it generated.

we've just got to keep making it an issue. silence comes before acceptance.

oh, and i wanted to let you know, i'm here at kosvegas and i'm not going to let anyone get away with any lax crap with respect to this issue. i know why you're not here, but you'll have a voice anyway.

I believe that all the votes haven't been counted yet. Provisional and requested paper ballots numbering in a multiplicity of the stated margin of of the 'win' are still to be counted. So there is reason to believe that the final tally may come in with an upset win for Busby.

This was news from SD callers on the Thom Hartmann National Show this morning.

Re: Comment No. 11

Can someone cross post comment No. 11 (and this comment) to democratic underground (and/or other voting issue websites). Someone with more time available needs to review the vote counts for the special election. I suspect that if the precinct vote counts for all other races are compared to the special election precinct vote counts there will be very significant statistical anomalies (indications of fraud). This type of anomally surfaced in the Ohio 2004 count. Before Busby can be convinced to request a recount, we have to provide some statistical evidence to justify a recount. Just looking at the variances between the primary and special election vote count is enough to convince me that something unusual happened.

Thanks for joining the fight, Ricky. I'm 3,000 miles away, and I have no idea who really won. But it might be possible to know. It just might be.

Yes I do agree Brad that is what people should be doing. If this comes to my country I will be moving hell and high water to prevent it like you are.

I have been doing my bit to keep the Right Wing here out as I belive they would do the same thing. Ive been telling people what our press are not reporting and calling people in the press who claimed to know nothing about whats happening in your country.

If this comes to the surface Internationally that will do a great deal to prevent it happening here.

What I thought about the poll was that it might generate local anger amoungst people who have their suspicions confirmed that there local election was probably rigged. It might get them to the courthouse and demanding the ballots be recounted.

I do however get your point that the MSM will just dismiss it and it could be a waste of effort.

Smithsfan's comment is great. Make Abraham Lincoln win an election. Everything's been proven already. Bev Harris has hacked into e-vote machines in front of election officials, undetected. What more evidence is needed? Maybe Abraham Lincoln winning an election. Sadly, that is not too funny.

I've been asking for, and looking for, information for possibly going on 2 years, of some sort of chart which shows Republican victories in relationship to the increase in electronic voting machines. I'll bet there's a 1-to-1 correspondence. Actually, you don't even have to look it up!!! Republicans now control everything, both houses of congress and the presidency, exactly coinciding with the proliferation of e-vote machines.

Yet, there's almost 20 million more registered Democrats in the United States. Doesn't add up...

And all suspicious vote shifts favor Republicans, that's a fact. An absolute, documented fact. It's not random 50-50...it's 100% towards the Republicans. IE...it's not random.

I cannot find any charts or graphs of increased 51%-49% Republican victories, either, especially in races in Republican districts in which there is a possibility of a Dem upsetting them in their own territory. These are what I believe are the most corrupt elections, because the GOP doesn't want to be embarrassed, losing a Republican district. See Schmidt vs. Hackett.

The deafening silence has become the norm when it comes to truth, justice and the American way anymore.

I'm with the majority here on wondering why we don't hear more from the dems or the candidates. I'm beginning to think the wiretapping, spying and raiding has aided the administration all along with getting dirt on everyone to "persuade" everything to go their way, dems and repubs. Hollywood in DC (and they are bad actors). They just sit around fat and happy with their special interest perks and hardly ever having to do anything. Why would they want to change that? CAN they change that?

I agree with what you have always said and reported about the voting machines, Brad. Accountability is the key. That key either opens the door back to democracy as we've always known it, or locks us out from any hopes of a peaceful and happy future as a nation.

Back to the silence.....

Here's the opposite arguement:

Find me a 51%-49% Dem victory in a GOP stronghold precinct.

This Busby thing is a TEST...if this isn't challenged, start painting California RED!!!!!!!! Just sit and take it up the ass, and say nothing.

Let me just recap what's going on here:

Schmidt is a Republican surrounded by ties to Ohio vote shennanigans, and defeats a straight-shooting Iraq War vet that everyone loves: 51%-49%, and the machines go down in the bottom of the 9th in a Republican precinct, and come up with thousands of Schmidt votes.

THEN...a Republican Duke Cunningham resigns in disgrace after bilking taxpayers out of millions $$$$.... and they vote in a Republican 51%-49% in a Republican stronghold.

GUESS WHO THEY'RE DISENFRANCHISING???

REPUBLICANS VOTERS!!!!

Think about it: If voters voted along party lines in a Republican stronghold, the Repubican would win by a landslide. If Republican voters want their corrupt Republican politicians OUT, THEY ARE BEING DISENFRANCHISED!!!! The Dem voters in Republican strongholds probably vote the same way anyway.

chicago dyke, I can't wait to hear the reaction of the folks at KOS-Vegas.

From everything I've read (I don't visit KOS) they are totally opposed to discussion of vote fraud and will boot you or belittle you if you even raise the issue. Can't wait to hear about your reception.

Oh, Ricky, I just LOVE your attempt to be civil and simultaneously shill for the vote-suppression Republicans with your "verified voting" ideas.

You know what, I agree with you. EVERY SINGLE VALID VOTE FROM A LEGAL CITIZEN SHOULD BE FAIRLY COUNTED BY HAND. How about that?

I'm not in favor of fraudulent voting, but it represents a miniscule amount compared to the massive voter suppression and vote fraud of the Republicans, so in the final analysis, I'm not too worried about an illegal alien getting to vote with his illegal fake DL having an impact on a race (unless it's decided by just a few votes).

We need to start verifying that the SoS's are going to be solidly anti-fraud and then putting a LOT of our time into getting THEM elected.

Where is Busby? Somebody let her know if she doesn't fight NOW she is going to find a lot of our support missing the next time she comes calling. And this is from somebody who gave money to her campaign and lives 1000 miles away.

How many provisionals in the 50th? Anybody know? THIS is where they have been stealing in the past, and to assume they are in the same proportion as the ballots counted is NOT a reasonable assumption --- they are most likely 70% Busby or better.

Another opportunity lost. Hacket, now Busby. We have to pick candidates with BALLS. Candidates who know how to FRAME their battles for fair counts. Candidates who don't take calls from the DLC or DCCC.

Charlie L
Portland, OR
(where 100% of our mailed-in paper ballots are counted on ES&S and Sequoia machines and if it wasn't for our incredible and upstanding SoS, we would have 5 Republican congress people and a Republican governor by now)

If a Republican stronghold comes out close to 50/50, that means REPUBLICAN VOTERS wanted these assholes OUT!!! In order for it to be close to 50/50, MANY REPUBLICANS HAD TO VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT, even if all the Dem voters voted 100% Democrat.

Sally, your idea for an exit poll might make sense in a race that wasn't so closely contested. Unfortunately, this one was "decided" by only a few thousand votes, so a poll of those who voted would be unable to claim accuracy within a reasonable margin of error.

Ricky, glad to see you making some sense (even if it took all afternoon), but it's also time to drop the "voter fraud" argument because it holds no water. Do you really think that a statistically relevant number of illegal aliens in California voted absentee in this race? Sure, there may be a few votes cast by people who are unregistered or improperly registered (probably including Ann Coulter), but not on a large enough scale to have any impact on the outcome. The fraud in these elections occurs on a grand scale, with votes being flipped and/or erased by software that is designed to be hackable by the right people. You should spend a few hours reading through Brad's archives...he's covered the specifics of these machines' failings ad nauseam (although...are they "failings" if the flaws are intentional?) , and it's all been documented by internationally recognized, independent computer scientists and security experts.

Brad, their feet are beginning to stink...time to turn up the flames.

Thanks for laying it down on Ricky, Brad. I am sick of his crap(not just on this thread) You are absolutely right! Democracy is at stake here. However, I'm one of the cynics who believe that it has always been PR. You ever notice how these disputed elections are SOOO CLOSE! Like its a damn sports game. I believe this is because of the whole horse race/sports mentality that makes them believable-when fraud is occuring over and over again right before our eyes... I don't know about any of these other canidates, but I plan on running for office- and I won't back down. I urge others to step up-complaints about spine-less dems? Let's run ourselves!

It's up to Busby to fight this. If she won't do it, we're back in Ohio with Kerry, and it's 2004 again.

Elliot, thats what the machines say and in the area contested may be right. There are people there though who know a great deal more about the mechanics of what is happening than me.
I think Marcy Winograd needs to get some polling done of actual voters and who they voted for. With people putting her signs on lawns I'd say they are just about ready to march on the courthouse if there was any damning info.

Charlie L: If you're talking about DailyKOS, I stopped going there, because during the Schmidt/Hackett corruption, they said "moral victory." I'm sick of that shit!!! And they never talk about vote fraud. They stink. They said "We sent a message." Yeah, the message is "We don't care about vote fraud."

Addressing the theory presented above in post 11 that there were 17,493 votes more than the Republican and Democratic Primaries totals. Are you just adding the votes cast for Libertarian and indpendent candidates to the Special election total to get this difference? There isn't a "decline to state" primary election that you can use to measure how many "decline to state" voters there were, so there's no real good way to measure if this total was inflated or not. So I don't think those numbers on the face of it look "wrong".

And Big Dan, the Republicans that are doing the disenfranchising to other Republicans will probably say that those other Republicans aren't really Republicans or that they are traitors, so that they deserve to be disenfranchised. Of course, we all know that not to be an attitude for Democracy, but they probably don't think that way. "You're either with us or against us!" is their line of thought.

Skeptic:

So, ou're going to run? Are you ready to sign the Pledge?

THE HONEST ELECTION CANDIDATE'S PLEDGE

1. I pledge to work hard to make sure that every citizen who votes for me has their vote counted for me.

2. I will not concede any contest I am involved in until I know that every absentee and provisional ballot has been counted.

3. I shall make sure that non-partisan exit polling is conducted.

4. If the final results of counted votes is different from the exit polling by more than the margin of error, I will demand and force a recount.

5. I shall exhaust every possible legal recourse to assure that every vote cast for me by a legal citizen is counted for me.

6. If asked to "concede" I shall respond: "Only when every vote cast for me has been counted --- to do anything less would be a violation of the Constitution."

7. If I am called a "sore loser" or a "waster of taxpayer time" I will reply that: "Democracy is never a waste of time and wanting to see Democratic Government working is never a bad cause."

If so, I'm ready to write you a $25 check. It looks like my $25 to Busby was wasted money, just like my donation to Hacket and to Kerry.

Let me know. When I see your signed pledge, I'll PayPal your campaign the money.

Charlie L
Portland OR

"Oh, Ricky, I just LOVE your attempt to be civil and simultaneously shill for the vote-suppression Republicans with your "verified voting" ideas."

Let me guess. Im also a racist. The only votes I want surpressed are illegal ones. I say that here, and get attacked. I thought this was a vote-fraud-free zone.

If democracy is at risk. Let ensure that all votes are legal and counted. Please someone let me in on why thats a bad thing.

OK Ricky of course I agree.

EVERY SINGLE VOTE BY A LEGAL CITIZEN MUST BE COUNTED AND VOTES BY NON-CITIZENS (or ILLEGAL VOTES LIKE THOSE BY MS. COULTER) MUST BE THROWN OUT AND THOSE WHO CAST THEM JAILED OR DEPORTED. End of story.

Now go away you troll.

Charlie L
Portland, OR

Ricky said:

If democracy is at risk. Let ensure that all votes are legal and counted. Please someone let me in on why thats a bad thing.

Sounds good. And if you can do so without disenfranchising millions of voters at the same time, sign me up!

Republican Controlled Voting Machines Hand Suprise Victories to...
Guess which party?
by voxfux

Diebold voting machines are implicated in widescale vote fraud. The last step in their conquest is complete. It will now be impossible to EVER have a fair vote again. And do you know why? Imagine if you will, trying to take a vote on a national referendum to make electronic voting machines open to public scrutiny? Just exactly what the fuck machine are you going to use to place your protest vote against - that's right - an electronic voting machine. And what do you think the outcome will be of that vote? You guessed it. The result be a resounding. "Nothing to see here, move along, EVERYONE unanimously voted that all this concern about electronic voting machines was just another "CONSPIRACY THEORY", move along.

Compare the projected results with the results as reported by the new Republican controlled machines. See for yourself the profound nature of the problem we all face.
Read what the Diebold machines have done to democracy in America.
------------------------------------------------------------

Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution/WSB-TV of 800 likely voters
on Nov. 1 For Georgia Governor
Roy Barnes (D) 51% up 11
Sonny Perdue (R) 40%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines'
on Nov. 5
Roy Barnes (D) 46%
Sonny Perdue (R) 51% up 5 - that's a 16-point pro-Bush
swing - was it magic?
----------------------------------

Poll by Atlanta Journal Constitution Nov. 1 for Georgia Senate
Max Cleland (D) 49%
up 5
Saxby Chambliss (R) 44%

"Official Results" from the 'Diebold Electronic Voting Machines'
Max Cleland (D) 46%
Saxby Chambliss 53%
up
7 - that's a 13-point pro-Bush swing - was it
magic?
----------------------------------

Poll by MSNBC/Zogby on Nov. 3 for Colorado Senate
Tom Strickland (D) 53% up 9
Wayne Allard (R) 44%

"Official Results"
Tom Strickland (D) 46%
Wayne Allard (R) 51% up 5
- that's a 14-point pro-Bush swing - was it magic?
---------------------------------

Minneapolis Star-Tribune Poll on Nov. 3 for Minnesota Senate
Walter Mondale (D) 46% up 5
Norm Coleman (R) 41%

"Official Results"
Norm Coleman (R) 50%
Walter Mondale (D) 47% up 3 that's an 8-point
pro-Bush swing - was it magic?

Did they let this one stay close because they knew MN loved Mondale?
--------------------------------

Poll by St. Louis Dispatch/Zogby on Nov. 3 for Illinois Governor
Rod Blagojevich (D) 52% up 7
Jim Ryan (R)
45%

"Official Results"
Rod Blagojevich (D) 43%
Jim Ryan (R)
44% up 1 that's an 8-point pro-Bush swing - was
it magic?
---------------------------------

Poll by Concord, NH Monitor on Nov. 3 for New Hampshire Senate
Jeanne Shaheen (D) 47% up 1
John E. Sununu (R) 46%

"Official Results"
Jeanne Shaheen (D) 47%
John E. Sununu (R) 51% up 4 that's a
5-point pro-Bush swing - was it magic?

Isn't it amazing that all six surprises went to the Republicans?

The hand writing is on the wall, and has been for several years. Never again will a Democrat lose an election without the GOP being accused of fraud. Wouldn't it be better for the far left to try and adapt their views to appeal to mainstream America. Most of us Americans are just moderate folks who want to be represented by SOMEONE. The left has a golden opportunity and they are going to blow it. And when they do... "It wasn't our fault, the elections were all stolen". That excuse is getting redundant and tired. Instead of wallowing in pity do something

Whats it going to take to wake up the Democratic party, if nothing changes they can kiss 2006 goodbye. I know you are careful to say that you dont know elections have been stolen because you have no evidence to verify the results with, but I believe in science and statistics, and have no doubt that they have been stolen. There have been to many anomalies to ignore.

GOTTHELEDOUT

Am I reading you statement correctly that you feel the election system is fine and a change in attitude from the "far left" is all thats in order?

The fact remains that the DNC should focus on appealing to America and not just a percentage of America. I live in the 50th district and it's heavily Republican. Busby tried to win this election by telling us how corrupt Republicans are. Think about that. I'm going to tell you that you and your party are corrupt. Now please vote for me. Brilliant strategy. The results didn't surprise me at all except for how close it was. The reason it was close was because Republicans had no other reason to show up at the polls and the Democrats had every reason to

Big Dan #57

Thanks for posting that damning information.

There should be a way to physically verify every vote is indeed true. We had that with the punch card ballots which amazingly were too confusing for many folks to operate even with it's lack of moving parts. Now we have a mess, which needs to get fixed. What you read from me was that instead of resorting AGAIN to "the election was stolen" try something new to win an election. I find it hard to believe that the GOP has operatives all over the country fixing elections, being smart enough to completely cover their tracks so as to not be detected except by internet bloggers. And yet they're not smart enough to realize Rumsfeld is a complete moron and replace the buffoon. But you believe any conspiracy theory you want... I'll be over here pissing on my "Rumsfeld Sucks" urinal target

Sally, that damning information means nothing. The fact is that when polls are taken (during the day) the majority of people who are home to answer the phone are lower class folks, second and third shift Union employees etc. Those folks are a huge part of the Democratic Party base.

Brad,

Thanks for the clarification. I only read the whole previous piece after I posted the question (my bad).

Okay, so part of the problem is the door covering the paper trail printout. I have never actually seen a Diebold with the VVPAT in the last two years or so. I have only seen the "without VVPAT" version, a la Pennsylvania's law.

What is the "party line" on the existence of the opaque door. I swear the last time I saw a Diebold prototype with VVPAT, the cover was transparent plastic. What gives? Is there an official explanation? Also, is it confirmed that the font on the printout is minuscule? I've also read that it is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to hand count those VVPAT's due to the layout of the information thereon. Can anyone here confirm that? Is the information printed tiny and in a "difficult to decipher" layout?

It almost sounds as if Diebold designed the VVPAT to be so unusable that jurisdictions would say, "Oh well then, forget it!" I can PARTIALLY understand why some people might be more comfortable not being distracted by a scrolling printout while they're still making selections, but SHEESH, the implementation seems really weird, no?

Brad, what about Oakland? 30,000 ballots remain to be counted in the hotly contested Oakland mayor's race, and I haven't heard any news organization declare a winner in that case. So how is it that with 67,000 ballots remaining to be counted in San Diego, how can that race be over while Oakland's could continue for days?

#64
.....the elderly and retired, stay at home moms, shift workers (factory, restaurant, industry, nurses, doctors and other hospital employees) the independently wealthy, small and home business owners, teachers on non school days, the disabled, people on sick leave...the lower class? Sounds like the backbone of America to me.

I agree that Rumsfeld sucks and the Democrats need a better message but I don't think Busby could run a campaign behind the Duke and not mention corruption. I mean Jeeezzzz that guy was a piece of work!

Brad, you have framed this exactly correctly, and I hope that your regulars pay attention. Saying it right is more important than saying it loudly:

* There is not (yet) evidence of fraud in Bilbray-Busby
* There is an allegation of probably illegal mishandling of voting machines
* That mishandling would have made fraud much easier to commit
* As the Iowa ES&S case illustratrates, even paper ballots like OpScans may be counted--or miscounted-- by computer
* Therefore, it is appropriate to investigate whether votes have been accurately recorded
* The OpScan votes can be manually recounted to detect machine error or fraud
* The DRE votes cannot be recounted, but the computer logs might possibly indicate tampering

I think that Busby should file two lawsuits. First, she should ask a court to issue an injunction to impound the machines and suspend the certification of the election. Second, assuming the allegations of voting machines sleepovers are confirmed and determined to be against the law, she should file a civil suit for damages against the county and against individual employees for monetary damages. (If it has to be said: this is not intended as legal advice).

L E A D is a heavy metal or a heaviness preventing action.

L E D is either a display mode or the past tense of "lead"... as in leading a charge, leading a decent life, leading edge. It might be an acronym for all kinds of things.

So did you get the heaviness out, but can't spell? Or, did you get out your clock with the LED display? Or, did you get past leading out? Or, what?

Are you just saying that you work hard and so deserve your fortune, or that you have not been too lazy to vote since you realized that someone else might derive some small benefit from your work? I want to understand what GOTTHELEDOUT is supposed to convey.

Seeing as GOTTHELEDOUT is using language like "far left" and "conspiracy theory" I think its pretty clear why hes here.

To liberals, showing id is disinfranchising voters.

getthehellout-

This person is completely full of it. He/She makes up the parameters of their argument and then proceed from their, expecting us to accept their absurd premises. First of all, show me any proof that a daytime sample would be construed as you portray. Second, your argument is bullshit anyway because that's not how samples are done. An attempt is made to make the sample percentages of all parties as close as possible to the voting electorate and, when it isn't, corrections are made to try and adjust the sample to better reflect the actual electorate. In addition, to add more absurdity to your premise, I can ASSURE you that people are polled in the evening at least as much as in the daytime.

Why the liberal label Ricky? Do you know who everyone votes for? In answer to your statement voter ID will disinfranchise the poor, Elderly, disabled, etc. The very people who need a voice. The reason is its going to be harder for them to acquire a voter ID. Therefore elections will be skewed to the right which I suspect maybe you might be happy with?

Regarding Comment #52:

NO THEORY...ABSOLUTE FACT!

There were two (2) votes in the 50th District for Congressman (the first was an actual election for the remainder of Duke's term and the second was a primary vote to be on the November ballot).

In the primary vote, there were 45,868 democratic votes in the democratic primary, 59,195 republican votes in the republican primary, and 547 votes in the other two party primaries. Total primary election votes were 105,610 (per L.A. Times).

In the acutal election (a separate vote), there were 122,273 votes cast (several thousands more than in the primary election being held at the same time...almost sounds like Ohio in '04!).

Bilbray "credited with" 60,319 votes, Bushby "credited with" 55,587 votes, two (2) minor party candidates were "credited with" 1,875 and 4,492 votes. Total votes were 122,273 (per the L.A. Times).

In the primary election, Bilbray received on 32,117 votes (54%). If you believe that every republican that voted in the primary also voted for Bilbary in the "election vote" along with 1,124 new voters (who didn't bother to vote in the primary election) then PIGS FLY!

If you believe 17K San Diego voters came out to vote and DIDN'T BOTHER TO VOTE IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION, then PIGS FLY!

If you believe there were 486 Libertarian voters in the "primary vote" and 1,975 Libertarian voters in the "election vote", then PIGS FLY!

If you believe in a DEEP RED DISTRICT there were 61 Peace & Freedom voters in the "primary vote" and FOUR THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED NINETY TWO (4,492) PEACE AND FREEDOM VOTERS IN THE "election vote", then Sadam Hussein planned 9/11 and the weapons of mass destruction were found in Bagdad.

Someone needs to examin the other races on the ballot to determine if the Assembly & other race votes (by precinct) are consistent with the "election vote" or "primary vote."

Somebody please forward comments 11, 37, 52 and this comment to democratic underground and the other vote fraud websites

V/r

Michael Daniels

Can someone please find and post a chart, of how there is a direct correlation between the Republicans taking over all branches of government, and electronic machines taking over all the voting? I'm sure there has been a study on this, I can't find it, and I've been searching forever.

But, without the chart, the fact is that the Republicans took over all branches of government, and nearly the whole United States' votes are counted on electronic voting machines or optical scanners. Coincidence???

Can someone please post a study of this, if you can find it? Why is this so hard to find? I'm pretty good at searching the internet, too.

When I lived in California, I had to show a picture ID and sign a voter log before voting. Has this changed?

Oh God, we stole this election too? You guys are hilarious. :laugh:

Yes Steve. My mother was polled in the evening once. She is retired and at home, so of coarse they could have gotten her during the day, but she said she was called right after the dinner hour. I don't know if this is common because they have never called me, day or night.

It's just creepy how many candidates who "lose" by so narrow a margin just concede. Doesn't it occur to them that at least nearly as many people as "elected" their opponent, tried to elect them? And, when this is the case, they owe it to their fellow citizens to make SURE they actually lost. Simple as that. If they were a worthy candidate to begin with, they MUST get the recount when it is this close. Al Gore said he stopped fighting because between the Supreme Court and the Constitution there is only armed insurrection. Kerry didn't have that excuse. Busby doesn't have that excuse. Plus, all candidates now have a duty to look after the vote count since the veracity of the final results has fallen into such, very reasonable, question. Doesn't matter what you'd like to think of election officials; what matters is that the vote is properly counted.

Kurt,

The opaque door covering the VVPAT can simply be removed from the Diebold TSx machines. Our county clerk had all of them removed from the 3000 or so machines in our county in preparation for our upcoming primary. The reason given for that was so that the doors didn't "get in the way."

I'd like to believe that meant: "didn't get in in the way of verified voting" --- that it was an explicit nod in the direction of democracy and the consent of the governed. But it may just have been done as a convenience, so that they didn't "get in the way" of the touch screen technicians when they assembled the machines.

In any event, the end result will be unimpeded verifiable voting and, if all of the poll workers in our county remind the voters to check the VVPAT for accuracy (like we did in '04 for 'hanging chads), perhaps even 'verified voting.'

As for the printing on the VVPAT--it's small but readable. We'll have a magnifier on hand (those were also removed from the machines) for those who might need it. The VVPAT tape, if I remember correctly from my poll worker training, doesn't start to scroll until the voter has made his selections. The printout stops under the clear plastic cover for the voter to check their choices and then, once the cast ballot button is touched, it scrolls up out of sight.

The problem is, even with all of that, and in fact, even if all of the security problems with the machines were somehow fixed, we can't ever know for sure whether all of our votes were tallied correctly, because that process is invisible and unverifiable.

There is no way around it... we simply must have hand-counted paper ballots!

These machines are so easy to hack that after the polling they could just flip peoples votes via software and print a new tape. Destroy the old one. This would be easier than getting rid of paper ballots.

Actually, pRicky, "showing ID" is NOT "disenfranchising".. forcing people to BUY them, or only making them available in "certian areas" -is- disenfranchising..

Here's the idea.. the ID only says "this is me, the government said so.. here's my picture.. it's me", right? No problem, no problem at all.

However! here's the "practice" as tried to be forced on voters by Republicans in office.. "you have to have a federal 'ID' that you can only get at 'this location', and it will cost you '$25' ".. See, now, you're putting demands on a lot of people that you really shouldn't be putting on them. Why do we say that? Well, a lot of eldery and poor don't have a way to get to "this location", or it would require taking a full day off from work to get there and back (walking, bussing, waiting in line, etc etc). In case you MISSED it, MOST people who are stuck working the jobs available to "poor people" aren't allowed to get "the day off".. if they miss a day of work, their bosses fire them. ANY argument you come up with to try and refute that is complete bullshit as it won't cover 95% of all the people who can't get time off work. The, in addition to "work", you have people with little kids who would have a very hard time getting their 2 or 3 kids to sit on a bus across town, then wait in line for 2 or 3 hours "to get an ID". THEN.. you have the idea of $25 (or $15, or $10, or $5.. whatever).. To some people, that's a week's worth of groceries.. How the hell do they go a week without food so they can vote? And it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL to force someone to "pay to vote", and making someone buy a special ID to vote is the SAME THING...

This has all been explained 1000s of times by millions of people, pRicky. If you don't get it by now, you never will. You keep bringing straw-man arguments to the table, or saying shit like "start with the law requiring IDs, then we can adjust the law to make sure no one is left out".. None of us are -that- stupid, we're not like you..

We ALL want "all legally cast votes counted".. the problem is, Repugs want to define "legally cast" to pretty much exclude anyone they don't like.

So sorry to comment off-topic, but in the interest of fairness...& to give kudos to georgie & rummy for (rather belatedly, but still..) scoring one for the "war on terra":

Our ricky is obviously pleased as punch that the bushteam finally got Al-Zarqawi.
But gee, it appears they've had him on the back burner (keeping osama company, I guess) for quite awhile...

"Avoiding attacking suspected terrorist mastermind"
Jim Miklaszewski
Pentagon Correspondent

"... long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger.

In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide...

...The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House...

...“Here we had targets, we had opportunities...and we still didn’t do it,” said Michael O’Hanlon, military analyst with the Brookings Institution...

...Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe.

The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq...

...In January 2003...The Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and for the third time, the National Security Council killed it.

Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam..."

Yeah, they REALLY know how to zero in on the enemy, don't they?
link

Here's another thing to consider. We talk about paper ballots as if they were the Holy Grail, and in some ways they are, but they are only as good as the chain of custody, so I wonder how much confidence we should have in recounts of paper ballots. As Warren County, OH, 2004 showed. Don't just show me the paper ballot recount. Show me the chain of custody of the actual ballots.

what we can do, right now is contact busby.
there is a fantastic letter a DUer wrote saying it is not about you, Francine, it is about our democracy. It is not about whether or not votes are counted fairly for you, but fairly for us.
everyone email and call busby's office. She needs to be on this! It is an answering amchine, but if she gets a thousand calls or so she may react.

Call Busby's office(s) (phone strongly preferred, follow-up with email) and let them know why further action must be taken by them, including demand for such a recount of the verifiable ballots:

Francine Busby for Congress

Cardiff Office - Main Headquarters
2121 Newcastle Ave.
Cardiff by the Sea, CA. 92007
(760)479-0114

Encinitas Office
144-C W. D St.
Encinitas, CA. 92024
(760)753-6300
(866)632-3066 (Toll-Free)
(760)753-5211 (Fax)

Email:
Info@BusbyforCongress.org
Volunteer@BusbyforCongress.org

EPPPIE, you are absolutely correct.. but it does no good to talk about "chain of custody" when there aren't even paper ballots in a lot of places.. And the push to remove them all over..

I think we need a "real" debate on how to fix our electoral system.. something we don't get from our current batch of corrupt politicians (see, pRicky? non-partisan with that quip of mine). They are more insterested in pandering to their funders than "the people"...

Hell, perhaps what we need to do to start is get corporate america OUT of the political process.. start with localities and get campagins set to run strictly on taxpayor dollars.. If more and more States did that, we'd have less and less corporate influence and a chance to get a government "Of the people, by the people, for the people" again..

V. KURT BELLMAN asked:

What is the "party line" on the existence of the opaque door.

What party? The Dems? I don't think they even realize it's there or that there's any problems. The Reps? Definitely don't realize it's there and couldn't care less. The Election Reformers? Most of them realize how insanely stupid it is. Those who know about it anyway.

I swear the last time I saw a Diebold prototype with VVPAT, the cover was transparent plastic. What gives? Is there an official explanation?

If there is one, I don't know what it is. Perhaps to keep the scratches off the shitty plastic magnifying glass that comes w/ every machine to help read the near-useless "paper trail"?

A photo essay of the machines and these issues is here:

EXCLUSIVE: Through the (Plastic) Looking Glass & Behind the Brown Door...
Diebold's Toilet Paper Democracy --- a Photographic Essay

Also, is it confirmed that the font on the printout is minuscule? I've also read that it is EXCEEDINGLY difficult to hand count those VVPAT's due to the layout of the information thereon. Can anyone here confirm that? Is the information printed tiny and in a "difficult to decipher" layout?

See the link I gave you above.

REDACTED AT DU asked:

Brad, what about Oakland? 30,000 ballots remain to be counted in the hotly contested Oakland mayor's race, and I haven't heard any news organization declare a winner in that case. So how is it that with 67,000 ballots remaining to be counted in San Diego, how can that race be over while Oakland's could continue for days?

a) Busby conceded, so b) The media works for the candidates, not for you and c) The 65,800 uncounted absentees and provisionals are for San Diego County as a whole, of which the 50th District is a smaller subset.

But still...I'm with ya!

Agent 99: GOTTHELEDOUT - The name of a half hour radio show on WIOT in Toledo Ohio many years ago which played 30 min of LED Zeppelin music. They used to be my favorite band and I still enjoy them.

Doug: I use terms like far left or progressive to describe people who I feel are far left on the political spectrum. I use terms like far right or conservative to describe those on the opposite end. They are equally guilty of allowing our political process to spiral down to the depths it currently resides. The reason I'm here is because I heard an interview with Brad on the Randi Rhodes show Wednesday. I enjoy debating politics and while I am a moderate Republican, I enjoy hearing opposing viewpoints and civil discourse.

Steve: My info about polling comes from none other than CNN. Several months ago when Bush's poll numbers plummeted a few more points the FAR RIGHT cried foul because there were more Democrats polled than Republicans on a given poll. CNN stated the reasons I gave earlier for the disparity. That, and the fact that more Democrats seemed open to giving their time for the questions. BTW, getthehellout is very clever

Think I might trust the tape if you could read it easily and have to sign it although from what I can gather signing might be difficult. If they could ajust the tape for this it may be OK.

someone, anyone, tell Busby to have those votes hand counted. I don't trust the machines, remember, bruce MacPherson is giving once banned Diebold a chance back to our elections in Calif.

I think Calif is next to deliver for the Republicans after Ohio and Florida, looks like the strategy unless we the people counter with in your face 'hand counts'.I hope to God I'm wrong.

The point is that there is "reasonable doubt" (for various reasons mentioned on this site and others) that the results of this and any and all elections are accurate.

You would think... of all things in America... and all the billions spent... that 1person=1vote could/would and damn right should be verified "beyond a reasonable doubt."

#91 Kim, I think its both the Repugnants and the DLC Dems together trying to keep another populist from getting into the White House, Why is it that all of the DLC is keeping their mouths shut about this ?
I noticed Thom Hartmann gets it

# 57 Big Dan

Voting to reform voting has played out in Ohio and democracy lost. There were 4 initiatives on the statewide ballot .... 2005? The poll v. outcome statistics there are stunning. You might want to find those for your readers.

The coup has taken place.

ChicagoDyke, You go girl. Think of yourself like a ...a....missionary.

Sandy, was the voting on electronic machine?

Can the Republicans take away LINK-TV and FSTV, too? They're fucking PBS...and every American.

Also, where's the help on e-vote fraud and internet freedom, from so-called liberals with the means to help? Like rich actors, musicians, blogs like Huffington Post, etc...??? They're all assholes, too. Where are they when you need them??? Where's Ralph Nader? Where's George Soros, Michael Moore? On these issues????????

Re Comment #74:

Apparently Sadam Hussein did not plan 9/11 and no weapons of mass destruction were found in Bagdad. The 4,492 votes were for an "independent" (not Peace and Freedom) candidate. However, my other comments still stand.

20 Amazing Facts About
Voting in the USA

by Angry Girl
Nightweed.com

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal...Landes/042804landes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
http://www.onlinejournal...Landes/042804landes.html

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreep...tml/private_company.html
http://www.onlinejournal...Landes/042804landes.html

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.cbsnews.com/s.../sunday/main632436.shtml
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.c...umns/2004/03/03_200.html
http://www.onlinejournal...akis/031004fitrakis.html

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvotin...;file=article&sid=26
http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx
http://www.onlisareinsra....com/archives/000896.php

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek..../2000/00_28/b3689130.htm
http://theindependent.co.../052700/new_hagel27.html

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html
http://www.onlinejournal...Landes/042804landes.html

9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.itworld.com/T...evotestates/pfindex.html

10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/a...us/ataglance/default.htm

12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/new...ote/0,2645,61640,00.html
http://portland.indymedi.../en/2004/10/301469.shtml

13. Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of Global Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold. Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/m...tories/HL0312/S00191.htm
http://www.chuckherrin.c...m/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

14. Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.c...m/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchang...g/update/press/2638.html
http://www.enquirer.com/...04/10/26/loc_elexoh.html

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

17. 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/s.../sunday/main632436.shtml

18. All --- not some --- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/new...ote/0,2645,65757,00.html
http://www.yuricareport....archStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html
http://www.ilcaonline.or...file=article&sid=950
http://www.scoop.co.nz/m...tories/HL0411/S00227.htm

19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.c...e/news/local/7628725.htm
http://www.washingtonpos...es/A10544-2004Oct29.html

20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida --- again always favoring Bush --- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport....archStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://www.computerworld...ry/0,10801,97614,00.html
http://www.americanfreep...l/tens_of_thousands.html
http://www.commondreams..../headlines04/1106-30.htm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html
http://uscountvotes.org/

Sally: Do you mean the VVPAT tape? Signing the tape under your vote would definately be "verified voting", but your vote then would be identifiable --- you'd lose secrecy of the vote.

But I like the idea in general. What about a check-off box that prints on the tape directly below the voter's vote? The voter would mark the box to indicate she'd verified the accuracy of what was printed.

In fact, this would make a recount easier because the poll workers could quickly delineate official votes from rejected votes.

To make this possible, a rectangular piece of the clear VVPAT cover would simply need to be cut out where the check box would be and programming would have to be added to create that functionality.

There are two problems with this solution though:
1. states might enact laws excluding those votes that weren't actually voter verified with a check mark; and
2. unmarked check boxes could be fraudulently marked by another party during a recount process.

As a voter in CA District 50 and campaigner for a Republican Conservative, I decided to vote for Busby, based strictly on the the basis of the Republican corruption of Cunningham and the fact that Bilbray as a lobbyist was no better. In speaking with many Republicans in the April 11 primary, I found many were Busby all the way because of the corruption, yet I wonder why many of my conservative friends were swayed to vote for Bilbray, knowing that his stance on illegal immigration did NOT reflect his absence during voting for immigration controls in Congress when he was in Congress previously, further lobbied for Bajaugua ( Tijuana, Mexico project @ US taxpayers expense) and his intent opposition to Prop 187 which denied citizens rights to illegals. You bet I want the votes manually counted, so what recourse do we have. Afterall, this virtually same district reelected a corrupt Republican County Supervisor as well as some other Corrupt County officials.

As a moderate Republican in the 50th I too voted for Busby on April 11th. I then voted for Bilbray (a turd) because Busby was not a viable option. The only thing she ran on was "Republicans are corrupt so vote for me". Her statement about "you don't have to have papers to vote and you don't need to be a registered voter to help." sealed the deal for me. That is the direction we are headed. I'm sorry but I think citizenship should stand for something

Pretty pathetic state our politics are in when you have to settle for the lesser of two evils but it's a fact

"What about a check-off box that prints on the tape directly below the voter's vote?"

Yes you are right anyone could check off those boxes on a software flipped, re printed tape and a signature does identify the voter.

This is where I think a tape is so dangerous because they could have software flipping votes but not printing it on the original tape yet storing it as the votes are registered, then after voters leave another tape could be printed with the already flipped votes.

This would be childs play for most Programers I think.

Gottheledout... I hope I wouldn't have to stand in line at a precinct if you were to be working at it. Probably would take hours to get to vote if everyone "had to show their papers" in order to vote.... If a white person were standing in front of you without a passport or their birth certificate, would you call the INS then?

Brad, it looks like this one got under your skin a little bit...

Good work.

Big Dan #98

I have been disappointed Michael Moore has been quiet on this issue but you never know with him what he's doing until its finished.
He's propbably had just about all he can take anyway after the 911 film.

If I were a very rich girl and fighting this I might well be doing it quietly so as not to foil my own plan. I'd be looking into hostile takeovers of Rupert Murdocks Fox in an effort to break the media silence or starting my own network.
Dreams are free I guess. Reality costs. But you are most likely right, where are these benefactors. Why are they also quiet when their money protects them and makes it easier for them to speak. Why haven't they donated decent sums to people like Brad who are giving their all for the cause, where the money would be well spent. With some extra money Brad could probably do even more with some pay and payed help.

We could also do with protection money for whistleblowers. Or jobs offered to them should they loose their jobs while standing up for everyones rights. I think with some financial protection, people may start to come forward and prosecutions might follow.

A democracy union might be the thing. Everyone pay a sub of say $5 to $10 per month and use it for protecting whistleblowers, bringing charges etc. This is how the labour unions win their fights against rich companies.

Re #74 - Michael Daniels...

Don't mean to discount the need to do a recount. I do agree with Brad on that, but let's be careful not to overstate our case here. You are adding all of the different primaries votes together and are wondering why that total is substantially less than the special election totals for the same district. The answer is simple. "Decline to state" registered voters (aka independent voters) don't have any party that they vote in the primary for. They are just voting for this special election, the initiatives and the "non-partisan" local offices.

There ARE a sizable amount of this district's voting populace (about 22%!). I'm guessing quite a few of that 22% came out to vote for Busby or Bilbray, even if they couldn't vote in a primary.

Here is an article that shows the following paragraph:

"Of the district's approximately 360,000 registered voters, 44 percent are Republican and 30 percent are Democrats. Twenty-one percent decline to state a party, and the remaining 5 percent is scattered among smaller parties. The district stretches from La Jolla and Clairemont Mesa up to Carlsbad and Escondido."

To follow up on that post, if you want to figure the turnout by percentage of registered voters and total registered voters note the following:

50th District Dems: (30% of 360,000 = 108,000 voters)
Based on the total number of Dems voting = 45868, then that is a 42.47% turnout.

50th District Republicans: (44% of 360,000 = 158,400 voters)
Based on the total number of Republicans voting = 59,195, then that is a 37.37% turnout.

Other voters: (26% of 360,000 = 93600 voters)
Based on the SE total minus both Dems and Repus primary totals = 17493, then that is an 18.59% turnout.

As you can see from that look at things, the Dem turnout was actually pretty high and over twice that of the independents or third party voters (if you believe that those voting in their own party's primaries for the most part voted both in the primary and the special election.

18.59% is actually kind of low, though I would submit that was probably to be expected, as the indy voters wasn't as motivated as the party members without a primary to vote in to show up at the polls. Given that the polls showed that the indy voters were largely going to Busby, perhaps this is where she lost in that she didn't get enough turnout from these indy voters that she needed.

big dan (#98), I don't know about George Soros and Michael Moore.

I don't read Huffington Post, but I think Brad has been published there many times.

Ralph Nader started insisting on paper ballots and hand counting, three months before the 2004 election. He was ignored, because he was "just an independent candidate." Many of us tried to get John Kerry to insist on paper ballots and hand counting, but he wouldn't listen; he thought we were paranoid.

If John Kerry had spent those three months demanding paper ballots and hand counting, this country might be very different today.

Had another thought about retroactive telephone exit polling. Even if results met with scepticism it would give us a good idea of what was happening and where plus likely culprits.

Its pretty hard to fight an opponent when what they are doing is so obscured and hidden especially if they rigg recounts. With diebold and other voting machine companies comming in to supposedly fix these incredibly faulty machines all the time the security of the vote is a joke.

Exit polling makes up quite a bit of RFK's article and from what Ive read on other sites and boards people are starting to understand how accurate it is.
They are almost uniformly telling the republicans that they are talking rubbish when they start questioning exit poll validity. I may soon do a research article on exit polling in the Western world with details of how accurate it actually is. This will require research as I don't have all the info yet, but should this materialise soon will send a link.

gotthelledout... I wonder what "papers" Bilbray showed to vote here. His Virginia drivers' license? Or did he just recently have them get ANOTHER California drivers' license to go along with his Virginia license! Did he go in to vote with Mom I suppose from *their* house here?

Big Dan #98

Michael Moore did have a link to the Neil Young thread here when the Impeach album came out and then later had voting machine link here.

Maybe he's trying to give Brad a little push!

I don't know if George Soros is still contributing to Move-on but they did recently take a poll and voting was one of the three most important things according to the readers there.

But, Yeah, you'd think more would be happening on all fronts. Maybe they've been waiting for the Kennedy report.

calipendence #106

You are required to show proof of residence to vote. I show my drivers license whenever I go to the polls and I've never had to wait for hours. In fact, rarely more than a few minutes. Imagine the fraud if people could just vote without having to prove residence. Then, Richard Daley's dream "Vote early, vote often" could rule the day.

The exit polling must be done outside the polls I guess unless people polled have any other way of or proving they actually voted over the phone.
I still think these polls need to be done or its really becomming more of a guessing game as to what is going on every day.

The Roll Back Act of 2006

Because of the physics of electronics alone, but also the
impossibility of security without destructively reverse engineering
every part of every power line, radio frequency, or electronic
components, or networks, or digitized data, or computer, or tabulator
or any electronic device used at any point between a voter and
geographic location of where the final tab is 'supposedly counted.

Electricity itself is invisible, and no human not even GOD can
validate what state electricity is in 24/7/365 days a year across
every inch of every mile of the whole system.

ALL Software has security flaws and can not be validated.

Therefore,

Undo, the offices, appointees, judges, every law, every war and
everything that was done by the direct, or indirect result of the
abuse of electronics, software, digital data, and network transmission
technology to the people of the united states of America and its
territories, districts, precincts and interests.

A new Paper Vote with all the public will count the vote. ALL
Candidates will have email, websites, contact numbers, and address's
inside the united states. This will be made available freely either by
an ISP specially set up or it should be responsibly setup just because
of the honor of the office.

Set this up to happen in the most expedient amount of time.

The folks that aren't doing awful evil can continue to run things with
their "Security Clearances Revoked" until history checks them out,
then they can either be filtered into either the corrupt or the
restored. were' not trying to witch hunt, but we are going to clean
America.

The folks that are not related to corrupt electronics keep their
security clearances.

Either The NSA snooping stops without warrants. Or there will be
random public in charge of oversight.

But our military men and women continue to do their jobs, TO PROTECT
US FROM DOMESTIC TERRORISM, and to plot the strategy to get the hell
out of Iraq ASAP, DRAFT people to finish it now, The Constitution will
be restored. The Port Security will have 100% search of every box.
Mexico can visit the US, just the same as we can visit them. These
stupid RFID chips in passports need to go. The databases that are
known to be hacked are going to fund the bill for a nationwide
password change.

Everyone gets to change their SSN, to something more secure because
the existing numbers have failed miserably. There should be no break
in this new system what so ever, it needs to be neutrally well thought
out for long term identity.

Databases that have leaked information will pay restitution to the
government and it's citizens to the extent that it fixes the problem.
If you lost 100 peoples identities, then you pay for 100 new
identities.

The EXISTING databases that have snooping information stored without
warrants will be ground into metal shavings and the shavings dropped
into a volcano.

Okay nice dream.
Some of it is feasible.

Everyone at the top kept questioning why Busby wasn\'t contesting anything. How do we know if her life has actually been threatened or not? This is a dangerous game kidos.

Donnacciola, you are insane.