Oh, Brad, I WISH I could. But because of the self-same elderly relative mentioned in my comment to your previous post, it's impossible. I do everything I can from home.

Previous comment:

Thanks, neodissident. I'm typing in the dark, since the 'puter room adjoins the bedroom of an elderly relative - but I'll attempt to be coherent.

If, by Ohio law, concealment of voting records constitutes prima facie evidence of fraud, WHY is there so much mincing around about the viability of a challenge? Blackwell has already implicated himself, blatantly, and seemingly with confidence that the legal community will let him off without a squeak of protest. Need one speculate as to what is in fact going on? Need Nelson, in Florida, look any further than this established statute?

The answer is "No!" but we live in a nation of cowering me-tooers who would rather get along than stand upright.

What is going on is a cowering aquiescence to blatant, fascist manipulation by a nation of spoiled, pampered baby-boomers. They don't want to lose their niches of comfort, so they won't enter the comfortless zone of idealogical conflict. Well, I am a grandma and a baby-boomer - I graduated from college in the same year as both Clinton and the *-word. And I won't take it lying down, even though I'll actually need those SS benefits in a few years and don't have the luxury of being able to play with other people's.

Back to the point: none of these "cautious" senators needs any more evidence than he or she already has, to contest the electors. All they really need is honesty, integrity, and faithfulness to the will of their own constituents.

If the Democrats don't do something about these voting machines, Democratic Senators in the states with Diebold and ES&S machines can kiss their jobs goodbye. Watch as the Republican Senate goes from 55 to 60 in the next Senate race. Bush for the next four years is the least of our worries. We're gonna have Karl Rove running the Whitehouse for the next twenty years. If they need proof, forget about the national election. The Diebold machines for the 2002 Georgia Senate and Gubernatorial elections caught all the pollsters off guard. Polls had the Democrats winning, final tabulation "proved" otherwise. Do they think these guys are ever gonna play fair?

I will be pleasantly surprised if any senator stands up with the decent people of the Black Congressional Caucus (including Randi Rhodes). Most likely whoever does it will be torn to shreds by the oligarchic system, but sometimes you want to throw caution to the wind. I isn't going to happen, however.

The Democratic Party has rotted all the way from the top to the grass roots. There is, as far as I'm concerned, no viable alternative. I think a lot of people who did not see that in 2000 did so this time, which is why Nader got almost no votes. It doesn't matter that much, anyway, because the elections will be rigged. Your vote might still be good for something at local levels, and I don't see any harm in voting just in case, but expect more and more Bushists to be "elected" in spite of their apparent unpopularity.

I read a few months ago about the Nazi takeover in Germany. The article said that Nazis didn't need to change the laws they would be breaking. They simply did what they wanted in spite of the law. That's the model the Bushists are following, and they will succeed.

We exist now, not as citizens of a failing Democracy, but as dissenter of the failed one. To right our course will take many years.

We will prevail but... we must first stand over the coals and drag everyone into the fire. Senators, Judges, Media, Corporations nor President not excluded. Everyone into the fire and focus... We will decide when it's time to get out of the heat and when, or if, we ever let anyone out.

There is no alternative for our children but to live free and in peace. We will be vigilant for them and we will prevail or we will all die together in the fight. They have under estimated us. We are left without choice. Again.

I have found our friend winterpatriot's (http://www.winterpatriot.blogspot.com/) "We Hold These Truths ... " posting at the bottom of his blog particularly inspiring these recent days. I hope you'll forgive me for sharing winterpatriot... I am so moved by your wise and timely post.

Thank you Brad and all, for your dissenting voices. Lets get it done!

Rant on, Brad! I come home from work and go immediately to your site. No new postings?--it ruins my night! Also: horkus is right--if this gets by, it's all over for the Dem Senators in the future, unless they become syncophants to the Bushites. I can't believe they're stupid enough to not realize this (but then, I've misunderestimated pols before). I do believe that there will be more than one who challenge the electors. If not, it's all over. And we then better anticipate fascism for our future. you might start thinking about moving to a place of relative safety. --Stan

The Rule of Law means exactly that.

Bush won so you conspiracy theorists should move on to other subjects: like how the Tsunami was a United States conspiracy to destroy the economy of Asia, like they believe at the Democratic Underground!

Bush won, get over it.

Is it a full moon tonight?

I'm curious if anyone knows the details of recount law (Ohio or anywhere)? I'm wondering if it's possible that a particular logical/technical argument could be raised: On any voting machine that does not produce a vote by vote paper trail to verify each and every single vote, WHAT is there to recount? I'm saying it's impossible to recount on a machine that doesn't give you anything to count. A re-read is not a re-count. Period. So let's take it to the next level - isn't it impossible to do a legal recount in any place that employed these machines?

Miss Persistent, that was the point of my previous post in the previous blog entry comments section.

The machines that use proprietary (read secret) code to count the votes do not make for a transparent vote REQUIRED by the Constitution.

The vote was therefor illegal and must be decalred null and void.

I agree 100% !! But at the local level, can we get something in State law regarding the definition of "Recount" in Ohio? This would declare part of the "recount" null and void in Ohio and force a re-Vote. Recount means to count again. Count means, "to list the units of a group one by one in order to determine a total number." You can't just re-read the totals unless you are recounting the state level votes (using the counties as "individual units"). For the recount of a county you must look at the units of vote within that county one by one and to do that you need to know what the value of each individual unit.

A quick check of Ohio law regarding recount procedures (the reference for this material found at bottom of this post). Does it appear that in order to do a recount you must have "Ballots" ?

§ 3515.04 Procedure for recount; stopping recount

"At the time and place fixed for making a recount, the board of elections, in the presence of all witnesses who may be in attendance, shall open the sealed containers containing the ballots to be recounted, and shall recount them. If a county used punch card ballots and if a chad is attached to a punch card ballot by three or four corners, the voter shall be deemed by the board not to have recorded a candidate, question, or issue choice at the particular position on the ballot, and a vote shall not be counted at that particular position on the ballot in the recount. Ballots shall be handled only by the members of the board or by the director or other employees of the board. Witnesses shall be permitted to see the ballots, but they shall not be permitted to touch them, and the board shall not permit the counting or tabulation of votes shown on the ballots for any nomination, or for election to any office or position, or upon any question or issue, other than the votes shown on such ballots for the nomination, election, question, or issue concerning which a recount of ballots was applied for."

The above appears on the Moritz College of Law of the Ohio State University webpage.

As mentioned earlier. Democrats are scared to stand up and fight with the Republicans. They are confused and is becoming timid. They are shrinking in both the Senate and congress.

Or a more unlikely probability, but still a scenario which is the Democrats wants the 'current' Republicans to screw up the country so much that no amount of voting machine manupulations and voter suppression can alter the next election result. This is possible now that King George will screw things up to a point of no return.

I sent this email to Hillary Clinton (and others) in response to a request for money. The same applies to all campaigns, in my opinion:

We received an email from you asking for money for your campaign. It seems to me that if you and other senators who I always believed would stand up for our democray, are not standing up on January 6 to protest the 2004 election in Ohio there will be no reason to send money to any candidate again. The elections are a sham and they are somewhere from suppressed to rigged. This is serious and I sincerely believe that your seat in the senate is a moot point because there will never be a liberal move that the senate will ever be able to make again if the election goes unchallenged. Even then, much work needs to done, but without it our democracy is lost. Thank you in advance for standing up for democracy on January 6.

Paula Bushkoff

Feel free to pass this message on to your colleagues.

No problem, neodissident. You're forgiven!

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..." What a concept!

I'm not surprised that you find that post inspiring. I copped it from some guys who could really write. But it's not only their literary skill that inspires us.

Look at what they went through! Hardships we can barely imagine. And for what? All their sacrifices, all the other sacrifices that generations of Patriots have made since then; all the lives lost, all the blood shed, all the families torn apart, all the young bodies ruined, all this was for what?

It was for an ideal, it was for a dream, it was so that we --- the children of a future they could barely imagine --- could live free lives in a free country.

But what exactly do we mean by "free country"?

A "free country" like our so-called leaders are trying to make in Iraq? A country where multi-national corporations can do whatever they want, with no regard for the natural environment, no respect for their employees or their customers, no obligation to contribute to the society around them?

I don't think so. I'd be very surprised if any of the original American Patriots fought and died for this.

Or a "free country" like our so-called leaders are making in the USA? A country where supposedly elected officials are free to do whatever they want, making new laws to limit the freedom of ordinary people while openly disregarding the laws that constrain their own behavior?

Is this what those early Patriots wanted for us? I don't think so. I don't think they wanted this at all.

What did they really want? It's not hard to figure out. They said and wrote exactly what they wanted. First and foremost, they wanted a country where people would be free to say and write what they thought.

And that means a country where people can criticize an elected official or an official policy without fear of reprisal; where people can crack a joke [tasteless or not, funny or not] without fear of being imprisoned for it; a country where any half-baked blowhard can say whatever he wants to say [even if only to praise the president for a decline in traffic accidents in some far-away city]. They knew that in a land of free speech, in a free marketplace of ideas, good ideas would win and bad ideas would lose. They knew that any truly free society would survive the lunatic rantings of a few half-baked blowhards, because the people would soon learn to ignore them.

Above all, they wanted to create, and in fact they did create, a country where the government is obliged to respect the will of the people, otherwise the people are free to change the government.

Those early Patriots were not afraid of free debate. They knew that good ideas would succeed by virtue of their quality, and bad ideas would fail of their own dead weight. They spoke openly in the middle of the towns; they weren't afraid of questions; and nobody ever had to sign a 'loyalty oath' to be admitted to one of their meetings. They didn't need political consultants to write their speeches or focus groups to refine their langauge. They spoke freely and openly and they tolerated dissent. The best of them even welcomed dissent. They knew that without the support of the people, their politics would never be considered legitimate. And neither would they.

They had so little, and they risked everything. Compared to them, we have so much, and we have risked very little. Now it's our turn.

We owe them. We owe them an enormous debt. From the ordinary citizen to the local official to the highest-ranking 'public servants' in the land, we all owe something to the memories of those early Patriots. We have sat still long enough. Our debt is now due.

Get out in the streets and make some noise if you can. If not, keep up the pressure in any other way you can. Keep writing to your Senators; keep writing to your Congressmen; keep hounding your journalists; encourage those who are working for Truth and Justice, and admonish those who are not. Keep talking to your friends and neighbors. Contribute whatever you can; lead if you can; otherwise follow those who are leading. The truth has to come out, and eventually it will, but it's not an automatic process; it's our job to make that happen.

It's not easy. It's never easy. But nothing that's worth doing is ever easy. I'll leave you with a few more inspiring words; these are from Thomas Paine:

Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.

Sorry to bust everyone's bubble, but the "RULE OF LAW" was always a joke. Law was not founded by democracies, it was created by Kings & Queens, Autocratic Rulers, and Religions to control growing societies and to control it in their favor by exploiting those who created, enforced, and interpreted the law. Just like today!

In my former life, I was an attorney. Now a born-again Revolutionary, I laugh out loud when I hear George DUMBYA Bush declare he is for "THE RULE OF LAW", as though he even knows what it means. The man doesn't even read the laws he's signing, just like he doesn't read newspapers.

He has a disdain for the legal profession that he doesn't have the intellect to comprehend. His appointment of judges is purely political as is his call for "TORT REFORM". In other words, it's all about the money and protecting the wealthy oligarchs. George DUMBYA's greatest legacy (tragedy) may yet be in his judicial appointments, which can impact our society for generations. Which may have been the single most important reason to have Kerry in the White House!

As far as TORT REFORM, his constant complaint is that large jury awards cost all of us because of higher insurance premiums. Yet higher jury awards also force his Republican insurance companies and the multinational oligarchs to change their conduct in areas from personal health to environmental protection. Again, the Bush's don't care about how their corporate friends harm the common people and their environments, but how it impacts the bank accounts of their contributors.

In his final complaint, he alleges that large jury awards harm the economy! Yes! The economics of his wealthy friends. In fact, large jury awards simply transfer wealth from one sector of the economy to another...usually from the Republican rich to the Democratic poor. Figuring out George DUMBYA is so easy! LOL What a sap!

So when George DUMBYA quotes the "RULE OF LAW", his public message only conceals his corrupt intent. Adolf Hitler's Germany had laws, lawyers, and judges! Saddam Hussein's Iraq had laws, lawyers, and judges! George DUMBYA's America has laws, lawyers, and judges! The "RULE OF LAW" is merely an extension of "THE RULE OF MAN", it is not a replacement of it.

If George DUMBYA and Republican hacks, like Blackwell in Ohio, only follow and interpret the laws in their favor, then we should be allowed to do the same. Like not paying taxes to fund their corrupt dirty wars, coups, and policies! Or to pay for their fraudulent elections or their guaranteed retirement benefits while they work to slash Social Security to shreads!

Democrats and Republicans in Washington have forgotten the golden rule of the first American Revolution and a renewed battle cry for the second:

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!

They have been publicly forewarned!

Paula, you have the right words for the Democratic senators. Igonore them when they ask for contribution if they ignore us now.

In today's Chicago Sun Times:
http://www.suntimes.com/...sse/cst-edt-jesse04.html

Senators should object to Ohio vote

January 4, 2005

BY JESSE JACKSON

... If Harry Reid, the new leader of the Democratic minority in the Senate, has any sense, he will lead members of the caucus to support their colleagues from the House and demand a debate that will expose the irregularities in Ohio. If Kerry wants to establish his continued leadership, he will stand first to join with Conyers and demand a debate.

... So Conyers will step up, accompanied by other courageous members of the House. They will object to the count and demand a debate. To force that debate, they need only one member of the Senate to join them. Reid should lead the entire caucus to join them. Kerry should stand alone if necessary to demand clean elections in America.

__________________

Will John Kerry Report for Duty?
By Robert Parry
January 4, 2005

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/010405.html

... The motion also presents John Kerry with a difficult political and ethical choice. He basically would have three options: He could join the demand for a full investigation and risk being dubbed a “sore loser”; he could choose to sit silently while Cheney pounds his gavel; or he could stay away from the session altogether. One Kerry adviser told me the senator may be traveling outside the country on Jan. 6.

http://news.bostonherald.../view.bg?articleid=61675

On Iraq trip, Kerry to skip election finale
By Andrew Miga
Tuesday, January 4, 2005

... WASHINGTON - When Congress meets in a special joint session Thursday to count electoral ballots from the presidential race, Sen. John F. Kerry [related, bio] will be noticeably absent - thousands of miles away on a fact-finding trip in the Middle East.

... ``While he conceded the election on Nov. 3, he is still very passionate about having every vote count,'' Boyd said.

... Kerry has said he remains open to the possibility of another White House run in 2008 - spurring speculation in some circles about his political ambitions.
______________

"Passionate" ... !!! ... *WHEN* to fight for voting reform if not now! Kerry also wusses out and goes on PR trip to Iraq. I can't imagine I'd ever vote for him again.

Rule of law jimmo? I just posted this in joining the petition to fry Mr. Gonzales:

Is there no accountability for the powerful?

An "unimportant" latino or latina in my city could go to jail or at least be watched under the "patriot" act for advocating what Mr. Gonzales has advocated.

They would be branded as a "gang" member and then be treated harshly.

But Mr. Gonzales is being promoted to the highest legal office in the administration after advocating torture.

Can you dare to do this before the american people with a straight face?

Do you believe America is so far gone into a Matrix state of existence that they exist only to serve you?

WAKE UP!
>>

Join me jimmo in bringing accountability back to your nation and mine:

link

freebird: when did you lose your law license?

hehehehe

I talked with Bill Nelson's office about challenging Ohio votes. They LAUGHED about it. The aid said they are getting the "fringe element" calls, and no matter what his office says they go stir crazy!

The guy was almost HYSTERICAL with how funny these callers were, but of course I kind of egged him on a little with my own humor.

dredd: i said it before and I will say it again: The liberal left wing wacko crowd cries that they are just after a fair election, but look at what they did in Washington in King County. Actions are louder than words, and what happened in King County demonstrates to everybody that this is just about trying to steal an election with a fake issue.

No, the left wing wacko crowd is trying to steal this election just like Al Gore tried to in 2000 and got caught!

Jimmo, you're so full of crap. The garbage you write here is verbally akin to going to the bathroom without benefit of first lowering your pants.

Regarding Ohio recount law, it appears technology may have surpassed the law. This may be an argument for an invalid election because the machines used violated the legal ability to recount the ballots under Ohio law.

But then again, as I have previously discussed, laws are subject to the exploitation of the powers that be and those who create, enforce, and interpret them at both the Ohio and federal level. You can have all the laws you want, but if anywhere along the chain those laws are corrupted or diregarded by those empowered to create, enforce, or interpret them, then those laws may be useless.

As an example, if Ohio law is on our side of the argument, if Republican Ohio courts, or a Republican controlled US Congress, or a Republican controlled US Justice Department, fails to enforce or interpret the laws fairly or not at all, then we have no redress accept through PEOPLE POWER!

This is a fundamental failure in our legal system which is mirrored by the fundamental failure of our constitutional form of government. The three branches of government, executive, legislative, and judicial were designed to function as governmental branches independent of each other. It has worked usually, as when Richard Nixon was impeached by Congress in 1974. But what if Congress at the time was controlled by Republicans instead of Democrats? Would George DUMBYA Bush have survived an investigation into 9/11 if both House and Senate were controlled by Democrats? Would he have ever been in office if the US Supreme Court was 5-4 the other way?

Today, we are at a point of constitutional breakdown when a party, or even an ideology, effectively controls all three branches of government and dilutes the necessity of checks and balances amongst the ruling structure. If laws are created, enforced, and interpreted to serve only one party or ideology, then we have a government that no longer represents all the people. In fact, we have a government that subjects a large portion of our country to the tyranny of a questionable majority. Or probably a better way of viewing it, we are all subject to a tyranny of a minority of those with sufficient wealth and power to subjugate our laws, including their creation, enforcement, and interpretation, to their benefit.

That's why we have ridiculous 3,000 page laws, with the devil in the details. Most Americans do not have the accountants and lawyers necessary to understand these laws, let alone the time to read them. But those with wealth and power do have those lawyers and accountants. In fact, they help write the laws that effect them either as lobbyists or important political contributors with the right connections.

As long as lobbyists can write the laws which are then made law by a Congress and President they help buy, who in turn appoint the judges who will be friendly to those who buy them, we will continue to be subject to the tyranny of those with wealth and power that rule our country.

Oh? And you thought "We the people..." rule? Remember, the RULE OF LAW is an extension of the RULE OF MAN, and those they control to create, enforce, and interpret those laws.

The only time we can influence those laws ourselves is through PEOPLE POWER! Political protest, mass appeals, civil disobedience, and every now and then a monumental litigation. The Civil Rights and Labor movement, anti-war protests against the Vietnam War, and environmental protection causes all come to mind.

So we should work the system as Plan A and if it fails us, there's always Plan B. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst they say, for PEOPLE POWER may be necessary this time around! And...

Every so often, we do get a bone!

PS: Although, I'm very hungry these days!

Freebird

A-Jim,

I voluntarily relinquished my law license after I got tired of fighting all the con-artists, crooks, cheats, liars, bribers, and back-slapping socialite self-indulged money grubbers of the legal profession, whether they were lawyers, prosecutors, or judges.

Don't worry Jim, my revolution cometh and it's not just aimed at the government, it's aimed at your filthy legal profession too! Have a nice day!

http://www.kirotv.com/po...ics/4047298/detail.html#

Election Workers Try To Reconcile Votes, Voters

UPDATED: 11:53 am PST January 4, 2005

SEATTLE --- King County election workers have begun trying to reconcile the number of ballots cast with the number of voters reported in the closest election for governor in Washington's history, KIRO 7 Eyewitness News reported.

There were about 3,500 more votes cast in King County than there were voters listed on the rolls, elections officials said.

They said that although a discrepancy is normal, it is usually much less.

ATTENTION: ATTENTION:
ELECTION THIEFT IN KING COUNTY WASHINGTON!

Paula Bushkoff:

Excellent idea. Tell them no more contributions if they do not support Conyers.

I will follow your lead on this.

Democratic, Republican, and Independent senators take note. Take serious note.

A-Jim,

I have no problem having election fraud investigated in Washington or anywhere else. But if we're going to allege it in Washington, we're going to allege it in Washington DC too!

Let's scrap the entire November 2, 2004, election and start over! Only with these seven (7) rules:

1) All citizens who are registered and even those who are not will be allowed to register and vote on election day at their clearly publicly announced precinct with valid identification or by secured mail in ballots.
2) All citizens will cast their ballots on new publicly owned electronic paper verifiable voting machines paid for by the federal government with adequate machines distributed to every precinct in America.
Additional machines will be distributed to countries and military bases throughout the world so that Americans can have the opportunity to vote in person at designated locations.
3) They will vote electronically and then have a paper ballot printed behind a secure glass along with a paper printed receipt of who they voted for. The paper ballot they observe behind glass will act as their physical vote compared to their electronic vote.
4) Before leaving, they must sign out that they certify that their vote was properly recorded.
5)

OOPS! Sorry! LOL

5) Both the paper ballots and the electronic ballots are counted independently of each other at different locations, with paper ballots hand counted.
6) All machines and counting will be under government, not private, control and regulation with third party independent supervision.
7) After the voting and counting is done, everybody goes out and gets wasted!

Some people want to get rid of electronic voting all together. I strongly disagree. With a dual tabulation system like I have recommended here and elsewhere, we have the ability to view discrepancies in both electronic and physical form. This gives us a dual failsafe system to verify the vote in two different ways, besides exit polling!

It's is ironic that Republicans who don't want paper verifiable voting should argue against a recount, when the machine recounts we have already had show the machines never accurately counted the votes correctly to begin with. Oh well, as George McGovern stated one night during the 1972 Presidential race, "Republicans were always better at electronics than we (Democrats) were," in an interview shortly after the Watergate breakin.

We demand a re-vote!

Emails DO matter! Withdrawing funding is a great idea:

Staples has just pulled their ads during a Sinclair new program, "saying the decision was fueled in part by e-mails from customers angry at what they consider to be the broadcaster's right-wing bias in news and commentary."

link

Apologist Jimmo -

I will happily take up the cause for election Fraud in Washington state if a) You demonstrate any evidence thereof and b) You publicly state your rejection of the votes and call for a fraud investigation in every other state where the same thing you are alleging in WA occured.

Do that, and you will have an ally (one that you do not deserve, by the way. But one from whom you may learn the concept of "intellectual honest" of which you have so far proven to be entirely bereft).