The thought just came to my mind that this could go to the Supreme Court because it is a statutory proceedure, not a Constitutional one.

One issue may be that the statute addresses electoral votes and the challenge involves individual votes.

That is a distinction without real meaning ... because the electors rest upon the votes of the people and the challenges to Ohio's elections are not done and so far have not been done right anyway.

I must get back to CNN now to watch ...

But now the people will get to hear more of the issues ... ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX take note. We are on your case.

We are proud of Senator Boxer. We voted for her. We pleaded her to stand up for us. She did. She is a true patriot. We applaud Barbara Boxer for her courage and wisdom.

We also applaud Brad Friedman for his 24/7 hard work and complete focus. Brad! Keep the Brad Blog Flag flying high.

It's like every single Democratic congressman suddenly grew balls all at once! Keep it going!

Good point Brad on Atty. Jim. He reflects the 'typical' republican.

Where is Attorney Jim???

I can imagine that he's off covering his ears and singing loudly somewhere...

The first step in reclaiming our American franchise of democracy.

The first step in informing all our fellow citizens that democracy is not a spectator sport.

The first step in the formation of a community of activists, experts of many types --- all committed to a very different form of government than what we have had in the past years.

We must never let up; we must be always vigilant; we must elect individuals who never forget that they work for us, in the service of our Constitution, and not for themselves or the service of a select few.

Congratulations everyone and a heartfelt deeply felt thank you to you Brad for your incredible leadership and resource.

Peace.

Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-New Jersey) showed a large poster size reprint of the Blackwell letter. As well as made mention of a bill he will propose to restrict officials from taking part in campaigns as Blackwell has done.

Wow, thank you so much Brad for the running transcript of sorts, this is awesome.
I can't to the c-span.org live feeds because they are in abominable formats only ("Real" and "Windows Media")

Boxer said, "This is a beginning," meaning a drive for electoral reform. She also said, "I made a mistake" (to listen to Al Gore and not challenge the 2000 election).

Bpxer: "It wasn't about Al Gore. It was about the voter." Amen, sister. Four years later, somebody finally "gets it!"

Bush will still be inaugurated. But now the story will get out, because the media ostriches have to take their heads out of the sand at last. Now the whole world will hear about Curtis and Feeney, about Raymond Lemme, the whole nine yards. And our friend Katherine Harris Blackwell might be spending his gubernatorial campaign behind bars.

I, too, am especially proud of the Senators and Congressman that have had the courage to do their duty. And of course, I can't thank Brad enough for the time and effort he has put onto his site. Thank you, Brad!!

Congrats to all for the hard work in getting *this* far.

One battle has been won, but unfortunately the war is far from over...

But today's events have, for me at least, renewed my energy and doubled my determination for the cause!

Maybe one day we will all again have FREE AND ACCOUNTABLE VOTING!

Is it just me but have the Republicans who have spoken sounded like petty broken records?

the "missed name" from GA was Cynthia McKinney.

I'm so happy and proud of Boxer & Tubbs-Jones.
I'm also happy with most of the statements I've heard from Democrats switching back and forth from CSPAN & CSPAN II, with the exception of Dem. Sen. Mark Dayton of course.
But I am saddened that I have not heard anyone mention the dicrepencies between the exit polls and the actual results. Did I miss it, or is the exit poll issue being ignored? If so, why were exit polls proof of fraud in the Ukraine but not in the U.S.?

Thank you Brad, I think you've been a big part in making this come together. Bradblog has been a hub for coordination for this issue, as well as some other websites.

Media, Communication, Infastructure: We Build this up, we take back democracy, and thats what were doing here.

It's interesting to see the Republicans yelling and screaming that in this time of crisis, the Democrats are wasting Congress' time on election reform, when their first order of business wasn't ensuring that our troops had proper armor, or providing relief to the people of Asia, but weakening Congressional ethics laws.

A funny headline from the AP story reads, "Congress debates Ohio, then to certify Bush win". . .struck me as a bit entertaining.

The Dems will not save you.

I sent this e-mail to Olbermann...
Subject: where's the coverage?
To: kolbermann@msnbc.com

Why don't you have this on MSNBC's cover page! This
is BIG!!! It's shameful! Still think there is no
media blackout? Think again, my friend! You'd think
the people of this country would be joyous!! This
isn't about who won or lost...it's about our basic
rights! This is anything but frivolous! Stand with
courage, Mr. Olbermann. Many of us have chosen to
stand up and fight for our basic rights and the
integrity of our democracy! Care to join us?
Consider this your invitation...

Geez...thought I'd hear back from him...NOT!

When do we form a "Boxer for President in 08" campaign group?

Peace.

The Dems are being very careful. They all know the election was stolen big-time by hacking, but they are directing their arguments toward the idea of a right to vote and be counted. They realize the election results can't be changed, but paper-trail voting can hopefully be achieved before 2006. BTW, Brad, you deserve a place in the history books for all your dedication. --Stan

Mr. Olbermann producer got some scolding from their boss who happens to be republicans. So Mr. Olbermann voice is muted from behind the curtains. Typical corporate media. That is why I recommend the Bradblog.com the rise of new media.

Thanks, Brad, for being here with us....Conyers speaking now...

Listen now to Delay-ed Development and be sick...

How the fuck did tom delay get the last word! Agggggggghhhhhhh!

I cannot believe Tom DeLay. Are the Republicans not even LISTENING to what the house Democrats are SAYING?

"The X-Files Wing" -Tom DeLay

Wooohooo! We have a new moniker!

I was getting tired of that "reality based" thing.

The Truth is Out There

Tom Delay currently speaking. No Democatric Congressman, I repeat NO Democratic congressman publicly stated anything about vote stealing software. But, Delay slips Vote stealing software into his debate. Suspicion?????

You would think that a political action in America that hasn't occured in over 125 years would be primetime news for live coverage? Yet a Press Conference of Geoege DUMBYA Bush will be covered in the drop of a hat. Who owns the media? Who's your DADDY?

The sarcastic arrogant response by Republicans only leads me to believe that they have no intention of supporting election reform, now or in the future. We must now demand Democrats file laws quickly for wholesale election reform in America. If Republicans ignore or block such reforms, then we know what we must do next.

Some Republicans are correct though...we do want to reverse the election results and keep that mass murdering war criminal out of office! What they don't know is just how far many of us are willing to go to change America for the better. That'll be our surprise!

I watched until Bug Man Delay started speaking. He needs to go back to Sugarland and spray bugs, because he damn sure isn't interested in making the right to vote an inalienable right.

Brad, please tell me you captured Delay's Debate and can stream it. I think everybody would love to see it. I'll say it again. No Democratic Senator or Congressman publicly stated anything about vote stealing software, but Delay denies any vote stealing software wrong doing. Denying guilt before any accusations have been made? OKAY.....

Several times a Yea vote has come up in the Republican column but it keeps disappearing? Table for 1 for Mr. Walden O'Dell.

The fact that the Senate can't get even their own electronic voting system to work correctly sure is telling isn't it?

Nice try liberals.

You failed again.

We win.

I know it's gotta be just me but wasn't Delay up there for over 5 minutes? He's pretty sick.

atty jim -

you ass, we just won. Go hide under your bridge.

Fuck it! I'm Done. Mother fuck these POLITICIANS BOTH LEFT AND RIGHT DEM AND REPUBS! I'll let my ammo talk. When time comes.

In case Attny Jim missed it in the actual item above...I quote myself here, for his benefit (since he seems to have trouble understanding and/or reading things)...

..."Attny Jimmo" --- a BRAD BLOG commenter/troll --- is thoroughly discredited today and any credibility (if any existed in the first place) for the Freeper is lost....His Tuesday comment, "What are you going to drum up on Friday, the day after ZERO Senators and ONE nutty Representative challenge the electoral votes?" and Wednesday's comment, "After you get cold shouldered tomorrow by the Democrats; you are welcome to join us in the light of the GOP"...demonstrate "Jimmo's" lack of knowledge on, well...anything...that dispute, if there was one, is now over...

Given his lack of credit, credential or knowledge of political issues, we now return to encouraging BRAD BLOG readers to simply ignore him and he'll soon slink back under his rock.

Now don't go running Att. Jim off, he's good for a few laughs, and sometimes quite entertaining.

The Republican attitude is soooo deluded.

Yo Uncle $cam-

What's wrong? Afraid to live in a country where votes count?

Do us all a favor and start your "ammo talk" by putting a bullet in your head.

Brad: So I was off by one Senator.

When they asked for objections, one popped up in the house and one popped up in the senate. When the chair asked if there were more: there were NONE!

Brad, COME on OVER. Its bright and sunny here on the right. Republicans today are no more right wing than JFK was in the sixties.

We feel your pain!!

Now we have to get serious about this question:

How much POLITICAL CAPITAL did the Democrats expend today in this futile jesture.

Expending this political capital is going to cost a lot of people a lot in the House.

THAT is why only a SINGLE senator with 6 years in her term voted FOR the motion.

I think you all now realize you shot yourselves in the foot! Anytime we can bring up Michael Moore on the floor of the house - you LOSE.

The name of the game here is patience,we showed them what we can do when we put our headss and resources together.Now,lets let the senators and reps. that did not stand with us know 2006 is coming,and lets start our stragety,misspelled,and show them what we can do in 2006.Lets be proud of what we have done,we made history,people are talking,they will start checking things out now.We did good.

The Democrats are dead weight anyway. They lost nothing by standing up today. They lost much MORE by not fighting this harder. Even Conyers is saying today was about future election reform, not overturning a fraudulent election.

These Dems are patting themselves on the back for POSTURING. No thanks. I want justice.

America in '04-05 is Germany in '32-33. The fascists are taking over. If we don't stop it now, it will be too late.

But that said, I will NOT VOTE for any Congressional democrat in '08 who voted against the contest today. If they're not willing to stand up for me, I'm not wasting my time on them. Not Kerry, not Clinton, none of them.

Hi atty jimmo:

Please define conservatism. Explain how your definition of conservatism is represented in "your" Republican party.

I'm a conservative on a lot of issues. My Republican party is dead. Bought, sold, and slaughtered for pandering to religious groups and cowboy-style foreign policy.

Really. Think, and write. Or don't write at all. Your third grader taunts are not compelling.

Brad! We did it! We finally got our message out! And now, the neo-con Republicans know that we will not be silenced!

(I limit this to only neo-cons because there are plenty of progressives in their Party.)

Now, we need to marshall this debate and use it to obtain changes in our Congress. Out with the neo-cons!

Brad, you've brought us this far... let's continue to get Congress people of both parties in both Houses to speak for us (for once!)

Mr Blue Sky

A-Jim,

You make it sound as though this government is going to go on forever and that we're simply going to fade away. The REVOLUTION is just beginning to manifest itself into organized action.

2005 PEOPLE: YEAR OF REVOLUTION!

NEW CONSTITUTION! NEW GOVERNMENT!

AS AUTHORIZED BY OUR HUMAN & NATURAL RIGHTS TO ALTER OR ABOLISH A CORRUPT STATE!

Beginning Primers:

"Declaration of Independence"

"The Federalist Papers"

"Common Sense"

"On Our Duty of Civil Disobedience"

If you haven't already done so, read the above four and get pumped! Prepare...organize...get ready!

PT: please just go to the republican party website and read our platform.

The last Democrat I voted for was Jimmy Carter in 1978 when I was young and dumb. Before that I was a staunch "liberal" in the sense of JFK.

Shortly after that election I realized, as I watched Carter, wring his hands over our Iranian hostage situation, that the Democrat party was getting hijacked by the godless left and appeasers to the tyrants of the world.

Your party left me, I am still in the same place I was in 1978.

WOW.
Oh my. Oh my oh my. How naive I was.
I couldn't watch the House debate, but Sweet Jesus in a jar! our senators sure showed their true colors.
Eagerly Watching wrote "It's like every single Democratic congressman suddenly grew balls all at once"...well they sure shriveled up pretty quick, doncha think? I believe the vote was 74 to one.

Almost every speaker was careful to make it crystal clear that this was not about overturning the election, which George Bush obviously won. Almost every speaker talked about long lines & rain. The absence of uniform standards. People fearing their votes weren't counted. Why, it brought a tear to my eye. And some brave souls actually ventured into the scary territory of intimidation & dirty tricks. Ooooooooo!
Oh, their courage! Their deep concern for democracy warms the heart! My heart is just going pittypat right now!
Thanks, fearless leaders! for missing the goddamn point by a goddamn mile. Way to go!!
Not a word about tampering, perjury, solicitation of fraud....allegations they evidently felt were too flimsy to warrant scrutiny by such an august body. The names Clint Curtis & Tom Feeney passed no one's lips. Surprise!!
They tip-toed around the ONLY question they should have focused on in their five minutes of "debate": is it possible that our election system was compromised? But they declined. They passed. They blew us off.
I plan to write to Senator Boxer & Rep. Tubbs Jones, thanking them for displaying the only balls in the Senate. Who knew?!

SO! Who's up for tearing up their voter ID card & mailing it to the senator of your choice? Anybody??

Joan: come on over to our side. We don't treat our supporters like that. It is warm, sunny, and fun on the GOP side of things, plus we win almost all the time lately.

If you wonder much about us, ask your parents about the JFK Democrats - because them is us now.

jimmo,
'gesture' is spelled with a g, sweetie.

I am very disappointed that during the debate everyone made a point to say "Bush won...we don't deny that..." and that the only point for the challenge was for reform in our future elections. I believe there was massive fraud. I agree totally with Dan that fascists are taking over. I go one step further and say now that our vote is stolen, the fascists have completed their takeover. It sounds though that there is no law against stealing an election because nothing can be done about it. Please explain how this debate is good news. The major news networks are still not reporting on the election problems, whoever actually stole the election will get away with it, and the republicans still rule the house and senate and do not indicate any interest in election reform. I am not complaining as much as I do want some encouraging words, as I am feeling a little low. I want to know what can we do now?

Pat: there isn't much you CAN do.

You can never catch us with the goods. We will do it again in 2006 and 2008. Our system is so fool proof it is like knowing how to cheat at cards without EVER having to worry about getting caught. It's like going to Las Vegas knowing where the roulette wheel will stop before it gets rolled. It has worked for us for 3 elections now and nobody catches up with it. We call it ..... oops, I almost let it out.

Are you a fascist atty? I am curious. Many people believe repubs have not caught on to the fact that our country is being taken over by fascists. So I wonder in your case, do you not realize it, do you deny it, or you condone it because you believe in fascism?

My senators obviously voted against it, and I am sure that my congressman (Sanders) voted for the objection. I will tell Leahy and Jeffords how disappointed I am, and that I will take this seriously when deciding how to vote in the next election.

I will of course also let Sanders know that he has my vote of gratitude for being one of the defenders of my rights.

No. Nice try though.

I want you to explain how your party is "conservative." If I wanted to read ideological blather, I'd do what you're suggesting. I know what the website says. But I don't believe for a moment that you do.

The simple truth of the matter is that you can't defend today's Republican party as Conservative. It is no longer the party of Lincoln. And when you write back to defend it, it will be easy to rend your argument to shreds. So stop recruiting, quit with the sunny day crap, and start thinking.

Here is what we won. Two things.

First, there will be more press coverage. That is good. Now there is news coverage that shows the public that everyone does not agree with the Matrix Media who's primary purpose is to sedate.

Hopefully this will cause some more folks to think about why the election process is causing more and more of this type response.

Second, it was stated clearly in the debate exactly what we have been saying here.

That is, a leading Senator, Durbin, said there is no individual right to vote under the constitution of the united states! Senator Durbin quoted the Bush v Gore (2000) decision, which stated:

"The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States"

Yes, folks, we have no right to vote for president anyway in our constitution!

We derive the right to vote for president from state legislatures. State law.

And they can remove it at any time and vote for electors directly without our ever having voted.

This is the law of a country that brags about and is now imposing "democracy" in the middle east.

SO, the message was put out on national television and the people were told:

YOU HAVE NO INDIVIDUAL RIGHT TO VOTE for president ... and thus, that being true, what are we complaining about ... a right we have believed we have but that does not actually exist.

We are very clear, here, and we have been complaining about NOT HAVING A RIGHT TO VOTE INDIVIDUALLY. That is not conspiracy, that is just the way it is. Our complaint is about a real situation we do not agree with.

What is trajic is that americans do not know that they do not have a right to vote under the US Constitution. They have just heard the words though ... and lets keep pointing it out.

Individuals in Afganistan, Ukrania, and Iraq will have the individual right written in their constitution.

So, Senator Durbin suggested that we amend the constitution to give individuals the right to vote for president.

Sounds democratic to me.

Note to Jimmo: Please don't invoke JFK in your
little musings. He clipped more class off of his
toe nails than Shrub will ever have. Remember,you can't spell AWOL without Dubya...

Well Atty. Jimmo, Brad Blog commentor/resident troll. I'm a JFK democrat, matter of fact I voted for him. You probably wasn't born then. If anything the party moved to the right. It hasn't moved left as you seem to indicate. What we have in Washington now is many democrats who are little better than Republican Lite. That was quite obvious today.

A-Jim,

My parents are in their 80's. As a child, I sat next to my mother on the couch and watched her cry during the funeral of JFK. They are still Democrats! They are still JFK Democrats! They are not with your mass murdering President! They are not with your corrupt Republican government! And don't even try to compare that incompetent stumbling bumbling fool of a man you call your leader to JFK!

We will never be with you!

And for those of you who don't like me calling our President a mass murdering war criminal, please take note:

Latest report out of that dirty little secret: Fallujah, Iraq!

More than 700 bodies buried under tons of rubble have been recovered recently in one small part of the city. Virtually all of them were elderly men, women, and children. Even though the official line is that "NO" civilians were killed! This does not include the secret mass burials the US military has been supervising as they continue to hold the press at bay, only allowing "approved" media at "approved" locations!

Furthermore, fighting continues in the devastated city! Gee! Thought it was all wrapped up, eh? The invasion of Fallujah was a war crime and a crime against humanity under international law, under treaties adopted by the United States, which makes them US law!

Yet there is no debate about war crimes in the House or Senate! There is no effort to impeach a war criminal! We simply ignore the laws of the land to allow this criminal to remain in office, the result of a fraudulent election.

When George DUMBYA Bush can escape his accountability for 9/11! When he can wage war in violation of domestic and international law! When he can get re-elected through his corrupt minions of power and trickery. When he can literally get away with MURDER by Republican Party control of the Congress, the Justice Department, the FBI. Then there comes a time in our history...our humanity...where we must take a bold stand as a people, as a society, and as a mass consciousness.

This is much more than about standing to challenge the electoral college. In the absence of a serious challenge to the election itself...to the illegitimacy of a criminal regime...we set the stage for even greater crimes ahead, both ongoing and future.

The very structure of our government has collapsed from its original intent. It is falling down upon us and will continue to harm our country, our humanity, and our Mother Earth, unless and until WE THE PEOPLE change it for the better. We can only rely on tainted politicians and governments for so long. Their continued inaction will only bring an equal or greater reaction from the people who care!

The fraudulent illegitimate election must be challenged! The criminal elements in our government must be held to account. The failure of the government to uphold law and justice will only draw one conclusion...it is a government so legally and morally corrupt...that it is no longer worth keeping! And so the REVOLUTION begins!

The Republican position is simple: Might makes right. No need to compromise or debate or to ever make concessions: squash it without regard.

The common response is: it is politically motivated. What isn't?
Well, actions from the heart aren't - those which people take because they need to be taken to help others, those actions taken without regard for return. Today we see the first of these in action - simply disregarding the most precious right of this nation, without which not one person in the Congress has a legitimate voice.
The second action we see in the world, even with the tsunmai victims: giving as a product of the merchant mind, not of the heart.

Atty Jmmo and others here remind us of how ruthless we have become as a nation, how heartless with ourselves and with the world we live in. It's one thing to recognize the universe for the predatory existence it is; it's another to become the primary predator with towering self-importance and arrogance. But that, too, will cause its own demise, probably sooner than later.

I have yet to see anyone that understand the first rule of power - use it only when you need - but many fools flouting their power. That is a juvenile level of maturity which will soon enough encounter the lessons of how harsh this world really is.

Thank you, Brad, for your tireless committment to the preservation of our democracy. Thank you, Barbara Boxer, for having the courage that many of your male counterparts did not have. Thank you, Rep. Jones and other members of the House, for your fire and your courage. Thank you to all the brave people who are standing against the lunatics who have taken over our government and are waging war against our democratic republic.

It is time, fellow citizens, for us to stand up against the suppression of our rights. It is time for us to refuse to accept governance by right wing religious fanatics. It is time for us to let our leaders know that they work for us.

Oh, and thank you, John Conyers, for your truly hard work on this issue.

I am a Democrat, my wife is a Democrat and our 5 children are Democrats. Our party broke our heart today, and deserted us. The Democratic Party has no backbone. Because of their fear of how the public will view them we have another 4 years of this corrupt regime. Senator Boxer standing up meant nothing because the Democratic Party would not stand with her. That would not have happened with the Republicans. They understand as a party how to stand together. They are willing to sacrifice their individual goals for the good of their party. I cannot believe I am saying this about them, but it is true.

Yes, I have lost all trust in the Democratic Party also. They are trying to be more republican to win more votes. Republican lite. Maybe we should have started a mass movement to all vote for Nader. One thing Nadar has is backbone. Kerry we now know does not. Maybe we can all vote independent next election. What we need is a leader - a leader for all of us who will unite all the democrats, libs, greens, people who do not love the republican agenda... Who could be the leader to get us all together?

Freebird: I am all for Revolution: How do we start? Let's do it!

I'm with Joan,

" jimmo,
'gesture' is spelled with a g, sweetie."

That got me wet. Oh yes it did. To see man's balls cut off with such grace, you even called him sweetie.

Ask jimmo about Nee.

That's the only topic he won't touch. I've tried to engage the balless one, but he knows better. What can Republican say about treason?

Nee put our boys in danger giving missile tech to the reds. Jim don't want to talk about Nee and Yang, oh no. That's where all the fire is.

Joan, I was disgusted with it all as well, couldn't even watch it. The dems rolled over, "Oh yes, Bush won, we ALL know that. But we should provide raincoats for the disenfranchised."

Give me a freakin break.

Gutless, nothing about laws mentioned.,

Yes John,

You are correct. It is disheartening to see Democrats not in lock step, but then again, I'm glad they're not all the time. The qualities you admire in the Republicans are also the very qualities that lead to war and fascism. A blind faith and unquestioning loyalty that leads to a growing failure of our democracy to respond to corruption and injustice.

I admire loyalty and discipline, but it can be both vice and virtue. Democrats probably suffer from a lack of strong leadership right now more than anything.

jimmo, one is infinitely more than zero and all that was required.

With respect to you Freebird this was the time that the Democratic Party should have been in lock step. They should have all stood together every last Rep & Senator. You pick your battles carefully, and this is a battle that should have been fought. Kerry not being there was a joke. I do not believe in violence, but I would have loved it if a brawl had broken out.

Candi,

First you grit your teeth! GRRRRRRRRR!!!!

You can read all my revolutionary rantings in other threads here in BRAD BLOG WORLD (LOL). So I won't repeat them here other than to say we're getting started right here! Just need to get organized behind Brad and others, speak to each other, and start networking for action and results!

In what form the revolution will manifest itself is still pending! Stay tuned!

LOL You are probably right JOHN!

Please call those who did stand up today and thank them. I did and they were extremely grateful for the call.
Sen. Boxer 202 224 3553
Dem. staff @ house judiciary comm 202 225 6906
Congr. Black Caucus 202 226 9776
Rep. Conyers 202 225 5126
Rep. Tubbs-Jones 202 225 7032
Rep. Jackson Jr. 202 225 0773
A complete list of who voted for the challenge is at
www.truthout.org/fyi

Alison the exit polls were mentioned by both sides. The republicans spoke of exit polls as if they were old wives tales.

Some Phd. works I have read attribute scientific reliability to exit polls done properly.

SENATE VOTES DOWN OBJECTION 74 to 1

when did your politicians loose their backbone, their moral outrage? why are they in politics at all?

This sounds like some kind of banana republic politics. Comfy seat in senate. Keep family fortune. Aim of political maneuvers is to stay cushioned.

SENATE VOTES DOWN OBJECTION 74 to 1

when did your politicians loose their backbone, their moral outrage? why are they in politics at all?

This sounds like some kind of banana republic politics. Comfy seat in senate. Keep family fortune. Aim of political maneuvers is to stay cushioned.

Freebird (AKA Castro): You are not for real right?

As for the rest of you: yes the republican party is the party of JFK from 1963. I cannot help those of you whose elderly parents still think the Democrats are the party they knew and grew up with. Sometimes people get emotionally attached to ideas that life does not change, but it does. The Democrats today showed what they are: a sour grape, all is wrong with the world, people are bad, its not fair, they cheated, party that no longer represents main stream America.

Come aboard my party. It is the old Democrat party of JFK. Check us out. We are almost universally good, successful, God fearing people that love their children, want a better America, and believe in personal responsibility.

There is so much more to the world than CONSPIRACY THEORISTS running your lives with daily misquotes, misinformation, and outright untruths. We all at times think somebody or something is running the world around us and we are not in control of our lives, but then we grow up (or most of us do anyway)!

Welcome to my party: the GOP party. The American party.

Freebird: how is your brother Raoul? Is he still in prison or did you let him out yet?

Jeez, I don't know where to start.
Somebody said "maybe we can all vote independent next time". Right. Next time I guess you're saying they won't use the rigged voting machines, just to be fair.
Jimmo, haha! you are getting increasingly weird, sweetcheeks!
You seem to have an interestingly twisted sense of pride, calling us "godless lefties" as you gloat over how your guys got away with fraud, hahaha! Enjoy that moral high ground, do ya? Oh, I should ask "my parents" about JFK dems? lol! You're priceless. Thanks for the invitation to join you on the dark side but I think I'll stay with these folks, who actually take their morality seriously.
"Warm, sunny & fun" huh? Damn, I'll bet our soldiers are enjoying all that fun & sun Rummy provided! Some armor would have been nice, though, from those companies that said they could easily have provided it had your stellar team asked for it. Yeah, you must be proud!
But you definitely belong in their camp. Anyone who says "them is us now" is clearly comfortable in Bush country, haha!

If some honest, smart Americans, like Rep. John Conyers, would just draft the electoral reform legislation, then the American people can get it passed. When are the next local, state elections in your town or area? Who is running for what position? DO THEY SUPPORT THE ELECTORAL REFORM LEGISLATION? If so, they get your vote. Otherwise, no. The candidate, regardless of political party, who will sign the legislation that YOU approve, gets your vote. You need honest, smart people in office, not people wearing labels. Conyers and others can publish legislation on the internet which YOU want, without arguing with Repubs. year in and year out with no results. Get the documents, get the info for your town and state, and start talking. Go, America!

Want to thank Brad and all those who participated in the protests, the debates and special thanks to Conyers and his group and to Barbara Boxer. They are the spirit of Democracy. Tonight I'm weary, (I'm in my 70's) and I can no longer get out there and protest but I still can write letters, make calls and sign petitions and I will as long as I can. I feel that we made progress today, yet we have a long way to go. I only hope I can hang in there long enough to see Bush and his Cronies evicted from the WH in public shame for what they have done to this country and this world.

I've just read Lautenberg's quote by Grim and it reminded me of when I was working for a city government and was "caught" campaigning for a candidate for Congress under the Hatch Act. Wouldn't Blackwell be in violation of the Hatch Act? The HAVA Act entails much federal money to be used by his office to aid elections. He was co-chair of the Bush/Cheney campaign. This puts him in violation, doesn't it? Wasn't this the reason the Hatch Act was created in the first place?

Hats off to David Cobb, Rep. Conyers, Sen. Boxer, and sites like yours Brad!
We got them! Things didn't go according to script and that just kills them, when they lose control, even momentarily!
When I refer to them I am obviously referring to W. and his gang of "insurgents", that is what they are after all. Unwanted criminals who are trying to take over a country.
The danger of them is that they don't even try to stop lying, they have no fears because noone will punish them.
Your next mission should be the body that is truly in control of this country THE MEDIA !!
If you have any doubts watch the DVD Orwell Rolls in his Grave .
I have been avoiding all news channels since this past election as they have avoided covering ALL the fraud!! They would cover the Ukraine and not mention our fraudulent election.
Today, history was made... A Constitutional challenge to the certification of the President of the world's superpower. Since 1877 this is the first "real" challenge of this time ever!! I went to CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and local channels NBC, CBS, ABC.
NO, NO, mention at all of this on local channels. There was more important news like Andrea Yates conviction possibly being overturned...RighT!\
About four or five stories in, after the 2 week old Tsunami story, they mentioned briefly that there was this challenge but it was because of long lines in Ohio and the result of Election wouldn't change.
Our media is in control of EVERYTHING and brainwashing us by not covering the REAL news and showing us murders, tragedies,trials, etcc..
Please get on the Media's case!
Thanks

Hi, MEF I cancelled my cable - CNN's (et al) Bushite brainwashing attempts were not working on me anyway. I enjoy newspapers, the radio, books, and the INTERNET! If CNN's (et al's) ratings went down by many millions of Americans who are annoyed by the extremely poor service being provided, then the TV Media would change their ways - too late for me though! I am free of the repetitious, misinformation box.

The republicans embarrassed themselves today. Even my republican husband didn't agree with how they handled the situation. They should have been more interested in making it a priority to investigate what happened and then fix the system. Instead they ridiculed and name called. What a bunch of idiots.

Hey guess what I found on

www.mediamatters.org/

"Staples stops advertising on Sinclair
Citing an effort to be responsive to customer concerns over Sinclair’s injection of partisanship into its nightly newscasts, Staples, Inc., announced it will no longer advertise on local news programming on Sinclair stations nationwide. "

I have comments on the Cspan blog about this and am looking into a boycott we can join, If anyone is interested.

Not watching the news is a good idea, and i have watched less and less. All it does is make me angry. But we have to hit them in their pocketbooks. Even if you don't actually boycott a product, all you have to do is write to the company and say that you will. I mean some products are impossible to boycott. They are things you never use anyway. But writing to the company is what has the impact.

What do we do now? Do what they did:
(If you haven't read this since grade school, now might be a good time)

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
Action of Second Continental Congress, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

WHEN in the Course of human Events,
it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness --- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great- Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.

HE has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.

HE has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

HE has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants only.

HE has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.

HE has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.

HE has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and the Convulsions within.

HE has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

HE has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

HE has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries.

HE has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance.

HE has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures.

HE has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

HE has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us;

FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:

FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:

FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:

FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rules into these Colonies:

FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.

HE has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

HE has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.

HE is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.

HE has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

HE has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.

IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.

NOR have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have warned them from Time to Time of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.

WE, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

http://www.law.emory.edu...RAL/independ/declar.html

I just sent the following e-mail to Senator Boxer on her website e-mail (boxer.senate.gov/contact). I will also thank Representatives Conyers and Tubbs Jones but I especially think we should all stand up for and thank Senator Boxer for bravely standing alone among Senators and speaking up for all of us!:

Dear Senator Boxer,

I want to express my deepest and most genuine thanks for your courageous and honorable stand in supporting the objection to the Ohio electors today. I consider myself truly fortunate to have a Senator like you representing my State and, more importantly, my state of mind. I have been a Democrat since I could first vote 32 years ago and I have never felt so concerned or uncertain about the direction of our country as I have in the last couple of years and particularly since the recent elections.

While I am extremely proud and grateful for your stand I am equally disappointed that no other Senator had the courage or convictions to vote with (and not just thank) you. Sadly, this was true even though the objection to the electors was so carefully crafted as a vote for cleaning up our obviously flawed election process rather than also (as I would have wished) a challenge to the reelection of George Bush as president. I have read the report of the House Democratic Judiciary Committee as well as numerous other reports about the election in Ohio and elsewhere (not easy since the traditional news media has been so pathetic in their coverage of this issue). I am certainly not a wild conspiracy theorist but I do believe that there were both overt and covert efforts to illegally corrupt the vote in Ohio and other states in favor of Mr. Bush.

Most disheartening by far was the universal, lockstep response of the Republicans in both the House and Senate to the important issues that your objection raises. I doubt that any of these individuals (and probably few of the Democrats) actually read the Committee Report. I consider it an absolute affront to our democracy that they would call the debate you provoked "a waste of precious time" or "a publicity stunt" or, perhaps most remarkably and hypocritically, "an attack on our democracy". I would challenge any one of them to point out a more important issue they will address than the credibility of our electoral process. It really is the foundation of our democracy. How has it become so lost on these people that they are there to represent all of their constituents as well as the greater good of our country and not just their partisan and all too often petty, mean-spirited and self-serving interests. These Republicans have absolutely NO right to call those who question the election results "conspiracy theorists" when it was their efforts to prevent introduction of legislation to mandate a verifiable paper trail that has inevitably created the environment in which questions can so legitimately arise about the integrity of the election process. I would ask them to imagine (if they are capable) how they would respond if the shoe was on the other foot. Actually, we have only to look to Washington State to see how loudly they complain when they lose a close election where there actually was a verifiable paper trail. I can only wonder what would have happened there if there hadn't been.

These Republicans are remarkably arrogant and obviously feel ascendant right now but, unless they know something that I don't, it will not always be so on a national level and the voting reforms we are asking for could affect their fortunes on the state and local levels as early as 2006.

You will have my admiration, support and financial backing in the future but, if I do not see some of these other Democrats give more than lip service to
reforming our voting system, I will unequivocally look for an alternative to a party that will not stand up for its constituents or its supposed ideals. I've no doubt that I'm far from alone in these feelings.

Thank you again for being a true patriot!

Steve - great letter. Thank you for writing it - likely the sentiments of millions in America and around the world.

It's the Velvet Revolution. It's the course of human events.

I threw away my television 30 years ago, and can't
even look at it now. I attribute my health to that one act. And the few glimmers of hope I experience.
When they turned the invasion of Iraq into a Cecil B. DeMille extravaganza and called it, "Operation Iraqi Freedom", I lost control of myself, and was sick for six weeks. I have always thought the zombification of society by television was one of our greatest problems. And that proved it. I was horrified, and I never, ever, ever, want to experience that again.

I took all my money out the stock market, and I will not finance murder, robbery, now torture, destruction of natural beauty, and all other corporate crimes.

I won't contribute to the crippling of the people by the medical and pharmaceutical industries. I will heal myself, or by a reasonable alternative method. A physician can sign my death certificate, if he so pleases.

I drive an old beat-up car that gets fantastic mileage, and I don't travel. I don' t have to with cyberspace here.

I squeeze every last drop out of everything , and I recycle. I'm a non-consuming Mother.

And on it goes... until further notice.

Brad, I have one critisism of your work: Clowns like Atty. Jimmo are not worthy of acknowledgement from you, and I feel it is a mistake to include mention of him in your blog writings. By mentioning him in your writings, about people who do matter, you DO give credibility to one who never had any to begin with , or ever will.

All of you need to focus much higher than this pathetic boob. By focusing on him, you lower yourself to his level. This is counter-productive, regarding the aims and goals of this blog. Aim higher. You're like a bunch of fish, and your biting the bait.

You're behaving just like a bunch of "Red-State" voters in the act of biting on the neocon boondoggle. Focus on the crimes being committed against our country, not on those who refuse to admit there is anything wrong with it, just because their guy won.

Whether Fascism is good, or bad, is up to the individual. It certainly serves the best interests of the big-money corporations, and that includes all of the major-media. So, when you wonder why they do what they do, just look up the word's definition.

Fascism is more than just a word you might not completely understand. In America, it's a reality.

I disagree, Ian. I think that is one of our problems. Trying to dismiss people we don't agree with. Everyone has a right to express his opinions. If we are smart, we will let it in and out, and not
overreact emotionally. We all have to guard against superiority.
If we don't like someone's posts, we can skip over them. But if someone wants to respond, that should be OK, too.

As I've watched it all unfold from the perspective of Prague I've been increasingly filled with sadness, bitterness, and, yes, hope. Sadness and bitterness because the repugnatrons have completed their coup and duhbaya has been licensed to rape the world for four moron years, but hope because I sense an inchoate awakening among my fellow citizens. Keep the faith, all - they'll get theirs, come the revolution! The more horridly they behave in the interim, the sweeter will their fall be...

Hey, czaragorn!

Thanks for the encouragement. I knew we had allies out there. We will triumph!

In 2006 let's vote to re-elect all congressional members who stood up for democracy and voted to support Rep. Tubbs-Jones and Sen. Boxer's objection to the electoral count and vote everyone out of office who did not.

Brad, can you publish a list of all the senators who spoke in support the objection and a list of the represenatives who voted with the republicans or did not vote? Let's circulate this list and send a clear message to Congress that we mean business when "we the people" say we want serious election reform.

BECKY: re: Staples

Statement about Staples media buying and Sinclair Broadcast Group

FRAMINGHAM, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 6, 2005--To clarify that Staples does not have a policy against advertising on Sinclair Broadcast Group news, Staples has the following statement:

Our media buying process with Sinclair Broadcast Group stations has recently been misrepresented by an organization with no affiliation to Staples. Staples regularly drops and adds specific programs from our media buying schedule, as we evaluate and adjust how to best reach our customers. We do not let political agendas drive our media buying decisions.

Staples does not support any political party. We advertise with a variety of media outlets, but do not necessarily share the same views of these organizations or what they report. As we have done for a number of years, Staples will continue to advertise on Sinclair Broadcast Group stations.

SORRY TO BUST YOUR BUBBLE !

Atty Jimmo, I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.

Listening to the objections yesterday by some of the Republican congress to Senator Boxers challenge I realized facts mean nothing to them. This realization is not new to me, but it still shocks me regardless. My father was a Republican. In fact many family and friends were GOP supporters. In their hearts they still believe in the GOP and the many noble values it stands for. However their “True North” is what they believe is best for America & the world. Not putting one before the other. They know The Bush administration is running the world & us into the ground because they look at the facts. It saddens them to see their GOP taken over by people who think they are being witty comparing Senator Boxer’s challenge to Americas own “Boxer Rebellion”, and being insulted that this challenge was even brought up. If you care about your country you ask tough questions. My wife and I know their sadness because we voted for John Kerry and when it was time for him to report for duty he went AWOL.

John F: Sorry your guy went AWOL on you, but hey, he was your candidate!

What strikes me as utterly amazing is that the Senate Vote was 71 to 1, which should tell EVERY conspiracy theorist that they were full of it, but these conspiracy theorists now think the vote is a conspiracy! Unbelievable!

Yes, go ahead and ask tough questions, but do not lead us down the phony affidavits, nut case voters who "saw" their vote change on screen, computers controlled by the White House, and men in suits scaring blacks away from voting.

God Bless GW Bush!

The democratically controlled supreme court of 1964 held:

"Undeniably the Constitution of the United States protects the right of all qualified citizens to vote, in state as well as in federal elections"

Reynolds v Sims, at 'II'
>>

The republican controlled supreme court of 2000 held:

"The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States"

Bush v Gore at 'B'
>>

Rocket science is not required to see the fundamental positions of the parties.

Since 2000 comes after 1964, the latter republican position is the law.

It makes the belief that americans had for so long (that they had a constitutioal right to vote for president) just a myth.

dredd:

Nice try at confusing the audiance here. The right to vote IS guaranteed as LONG as each individual state decides that the individuals will vote instead of the state deciding the electors as the CONSTITUTION PROVIDES!

All the ruling said in 1964 was that, IF the state law required a vote by the qualified voters, then ALL qualified voters had a RIGHT to vote!

NICE TRY, but NO APPLE.

Hey, Atty Jimmo - These are not theories - these are facts. It is a fact that the software and voting machines are not secure. It is a fact that voting machines sat in warehouses while voters in Dem. leaning counties stood in lines for hours in the rain. It is a fact that some Repub. leaning areas had more machines per voter than Dem. leaning areas. It is a fact that a Triad technician interfered with a voting machine prior to the recount. There are many facts. You can deny them, but they are not going to change or go away. You cannot fool all the people all the time. This is so important that the good people of America, who are a majority, are not going to ignore the facts. They will obtain the necessary electoral reforms. The sooner, the better. God bless America.

ARTICLE 1 Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

This is what the 1964 suit was ABOUT!

ARTICLE II Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:
Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

This is what the 200 lawsuit was ABOUT!

Nice try dredd. Please try to be more ACCURATE

ARTICLE 1 Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

This is what the 1964 suit was ABOUT!

ARTICLE II Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:
Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

This is what the 2000 lawsuit was ABOUT!

Nice try dredd. Please try to be more ACCURATE

ARTICLE 1 Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

This is what the 1964 suit was ABOUT!

ARTICLE II Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:
Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

This is what the 2000 lawsuit was ABOUT!

Nice try dredd. Please try to be more ACCURATE

whoops, i hit transmit more than once.

Hi Atty Jimmo - Thanks for the info - we'll check it out - but please press the submit buttom only once - the blog is long.

Peggy: it is also a fact that the county that complained the most about a shortage of voting machines and machines in warehouses, Coyouhoga, has on its Board of Elections (who ARE responsible for machine allocation and location, NOT Blackwell as you like to believe) all DEMOCRATS!

But I KNOW you never want to dig into the "facts" beyond the catch phrase because that is where all the conspiracies fall apart- in the details. THIS is why the vote was 71 to 1 in the Senate!

Since you have this info, please kindly provide me with the name(s) and address(es) and phone number(s) of the Board of Elections of Coyouhoga, or where I may locate same, so that I may verify what you claim. What other counties complained of a shortage of machines?

Hi Atty Jimmo - According to GOOGLE, there is no Coyouhoga County in Ohio. Since we're talking facts - Is there, in fact, a Coyouhoga County in Ohio? Please clarify.

Hi Atty Jimmo - According to YAHOO there is no Coyouhoga County in Ohio, but there is a CUYAHOGA County in Ohio, whose Board of Electors has four members, two Repubs. and two Dems. Is this strike two, Jimmo?

The common denominator when discussing voter fraud in the last 2 Presidential elections with Bush supporters is their complete lack of facts concerning this crime. Name-calling and mention of the most unsubstantiated facts as proof that no fraud occurred indicates nothing more then mentally laziness or a disconnect from reality. The facts are over whelming that voter fraud took place to those who are willing to do the research. However for those poor souls who are still in denial about this adminsration I understand there are Bush 12 Step Programs to help you face the truth.

atty jimmo I was not talking to an "audiance", I was reiterating to the audience what one Senator clearly stated on the floor of the US Senate yesterday in the historic events there.

"The constitution says what the supreme court says it says" is a time-worn reality. This is a well known, and admitted fact.

Chief Justice Reinquist in a decision last year on the Eleventh Amendment, for instance, mentioned it again.

It has been known for over a century that the text of the Eleventh Amendment says one thing "in plain text", but it has never been ruled on that way. What it says in plain text is not Eleventh Amendment law, because legally it says what the supreme court says it says.

This "plain text rule" is what you are advocating when you quote constitutional text, and do not cite to a controlling supreme court opinion.

I cited supreme court opinions because they have more weight legally than the text of the document. You will find that I quoted from both cases exactly as the text in those cases exists.

Yes, I am a revolutionary!

If someone wants to compare me to Castro, go ahead! Names don't hurt me! But let me just remind you when the Republicans were backing that tin horn dictator Batista in Cuba, he was torturing, murdering, and imprisoning people throughout the country! Why? So the banana republic could be controlled by American corporations and the Mafia! Yes, I can here all of you pro-democracy types yearning for your "free" elections, just like in Iraq, for our little island nation to the South! American corporations and the Mafia are looking forward to them too, or should I say, their next phony stooge!

PS: I don't smoke cigars!

Peggy:

From this Link

"Earlier this year, state officials also decided to delay the purchase of touch-screen machines, citing worries about the security of the vote. That left many Ohio counties with too few machines.

County boards are split evenly between Republicans and Democrats, and control the type of machines and their distribution. In Cuyahoga County, officials decided to quickly rent hundreds of additional voting machines."

I was right, the machines ARE controlled by the County Boards! SO QUIT YOUR COMPLAINING about LACK OF MACHINES IN OHIO or BLAME the DEMOCRATS on the BOARD!!!

:confused:

the vote was 74 to 1, jimmo my sweet

I just joined a moveon.org mail-out to many newspapers thanking Senator Boxer. I wrote my own text which reads:

Dear Senator Boxer,

Thank you for drawing attention to the terrible state of voting affairs in our country.

We march around the world using violence to force democracy on other nations, yet, we have no constitutional right to individually vote for our own president.

We vote for president at the behest of state legislators. They can take it away at any time and vote for our president themselves in our stead. So said the Supreme Court in Bush v Gore (2000).

All we asked for, and what you gave, was some notice. Let the people know. They do not know.

Even some representatives in congress during the debate mentioned "our constitutional right to vote for president" ... which we do not have.

You have drawn attention to a serious, non partisan issue and we thank you and stand by you.

Sincerely,
[name]
>>

Teresa said: "I disagree, Ian. I think that is one of our problems. Trying to dismiss people we don't agree with."

Not what I meant, Teresa. I mean that biting on the bait thrown out by someone who's sole purpose is to get a rise out of you is spinning your wheels, and distracting you from your main purpose. Your ideals are being toyed with.

It's a choice: "bark with the dogs, or soar with the angels"

Well, Dredd, it's a good thing we stand by Barbara Boxer because her fellow Senators did not. How could they support her in the debate but not in the vote? I say we keep her and pitch the rest. What do you think?

Yes, Ian, I agree that it's bait. But so be it. If our ideals are in place this will not be a threat. And resistance to our ideas, builds strength.
Plus, sometimes, we learn something in the constant clarification of our thoughts.
It's like the ground hog game in the midway, trying to pound all their little heads down. They keep re-emerging.

It is like the "ground-hog" game - exactly! How much time do you spend beating down heads that won't stay down? Doesn't it reach a point where you're not utilizing your time to your best advantage?

What really disturbed me is that Brad singled him out in his blog writings. I feel strongly that this brought him attention he wasn't nearly deserving of, and it seems to me that his ridiculous posts have increased since Brad gave him that attention.

All a troll wants is to be fed, and he'll say whatever it takes to get you to do it. I just, respectifully, encourage all of those who post here to "aim higher" if you intend to reach any satisfactory goal.

winter patriot comment #119: Sounds reasonable.

I think I'll go along with you, Ian. I've had a sobering day. I do remember getting so frustrated with those groung hogs 15 years ago, that I never played the game again.

I am posting an e-mail exchange I had with a friend on the subject of thanking Barbara Boxer, John Conyers, and the other courageous members of Congress who rose to defend our voting rights. I think it is self-explanatory:

"I saw the comment of a grateful supporter of Barbara Boxer that he/she was going to send her some flowers. That reminds me of when Katherine Harris received rooms-full of flowers after certifying Florida for Bush in 2000. We should ask her what cause she would like grateful citizens to send donations to instead of the cost of a bouquet. And Conyers, too. Perhaps Common Cause or some other organization that fights for voters' rights. What do you think? I would post the suggestion with Brad or Cannon, in case others want to respond in a more concrete form. I don't think money needs to be spent in order to thank them, I just think that the cost of a bouquet is $30-50, and maybe a few such contributions could go to a fund that will work with it.

CD

Wow, what a great idea!

How about if we suggest that we donate to the the Congressional Black Caucus in her name? That way we congratulate both of them and put the money where it would do so much good. The CBC is after all the ‘vote conscience’ of Congress!

lll"

Does anyone else out there have any suggestions along this line? For example, Martin Luther King Day is coming up soon --- January 17. It is more important than ever that we celebrate his work in fighting for civil rights for ALL Americans. What an outrage that there is still so much work to be done toward that goal!

And thank you to you all who joined in this wave of citizen response to this outrageous sham of an election. Our support gave these Congresspeople the courage they will continue to need to keep this movement going. How about rather than a groundswell, we build up a ground-tsunami? (O.K., maybe that is going a little too far... I mean no disrespect to the actual tsunami victims. I merely mean we need to build up more and more numbers until we actually get the attention of all the folks and media organs out there who are not yet paying attention).

CD