McCain is filibustering with ancient history

To McC's credit, he at least answered the question about voting for the bailout (he says "Yes"). Obama oughta say "No! I'm not gonna commit to anything, until we know what the bill is, and if it protects the tax payers!"

and using the american worker which he is against

Is it just me? Or are both of these guys coming across as pretty lackluster?

Politico notes: Flag pin for Obama, No flag pin for McCain.

I guess Obama wins this debate. John McCain hates America.

Lackluster is a good description.

McCain did better than I expected.

I'd call it about even.

(I'm an Obama supporter.) I liked Obama's answers better (as I would), but McCain's answers were solid and he did a good job (although I disagree with many of his positions).

Someone was expecting luster in this debate?

Obama is trying to get the warmongers' votes. Knows we have to vote for him no matter what he says or does.

BTW the Democrats have already caved on the bailout, so BO could hardly stand firm on it in the debate.

Obama often said, "John McCain is right." He would have been better off just stating his own ideas. McCain often repeated, "Senator Obama is just wrong on this" and "Senator Obama just doesn't understand." While Obama had better intellectual positions, McCain's linguistic strategy worked.

I had anticipated that Obama would be a stronger debater than McCain.

Ultimately, if status quo holds, then Obama has won. No hits, no walks, no errors. All around, in general, I think.

That Obama didn't show up in a turbin with an "I hate America" sign on --- and wingnuts got to see that without the RushFilter to instruct them otherwise --- will likely be a plus for him as well.

Am I dreaming or did I actually hear John McCain admit that the US has tortured people? If I'm right, he needs to be hammered on this and asked why he isn't do anything about this obvious violation of treaties we have ratified and federal law.

Fukin George Will gave it to Obama, if my teeth were false I would have dropped them

The debate made me feel sick.1. How is a viewer to know what's true when candidates repeatedly assert opposite realities? With claims and counter-claims just left hanging and the moderator not helping in the slightest to discern truth from exaggeration or lie. 2. Because I believe in order to win(and if he doesn't we're fucked)Obama has to win by a landslide with enormous leads in pre-election polls I wanted him to thrash McCain. Call him out on the lies he told about needing to go to Washington and not going. Asking him if he's so concerned about our economic crisis why in a Tuesday interview he said he had not read a three page proposal he'd received the day before and said he was looking over. Ask him how he picked Sarah Palin the anti-experience candidate. Ask him DID he pick Sarah Palin? WHO picked Sarah Palin? Earmarks? What about her earmarks for studying crabs? Or if you don't like these items, fine, there are plenty of others but hammer him.
3. McCain constantly had Obama backpedaling. Stop backpedaling! Hit back and hit back hard! Not assholishly like McCain was doing but in an unyielding manner concerning matters of substance. 4.The Russia/Georgia conflict was much more nuanced than either candidate acknowledged. 5. Both of them think nuclear power is a good idea, seemingly oblivious to the environmental, economic, and national security problems inherent with that technology. 6. And of course not a word about the environmental consequences of our present course and 7. not a word about electile dysfunction. Besides all that and all the other stuff I'm too tired to write and that my computer is now doing a thing I've never seen before with the letters not appearing on the screen right away as I type which makes me wonder again if my computer is being surveilled because of my politics, the whole thing really made me want to go out there and raise the half a million dollars we need for a national exit poll cuz those candidates were so peachy. (I need sleep).
love,
Dave
p.s. now I can't seem to get this accepted despite typing in the correct characters at the bottom. What does that mean?

Dave, we don't need no $half million to audit the vote. We need for every precinct that wants to audit the vote to come up with the following:
--8 people to work in shifts during election day;
--a cardboard box with a cover;
--some duct tape to seal the box;
--a few clipboards;
--a ream of parallel ballots;
--a petition-like affidavit for voters to sign, affirming that the parallel ballot they cast with pencil and paper matches their official ballot;
--an announcement from the Obama campaign endorsing the parallel election, urging supporters to participate, and inviting other candidates and their supporters to support it as well;
--a count at the close of the polls of how many people cast official ballots at that precinct.
That, my friends, would be an audit. Brad, I'll see you at your appearance at St. Bede's Church on Saturday, and I hope you will have encouragement, or if not, some input, on how I could maybe (or whether I should try to) make such a thing happen. I have been working on it. It should NOT happen at any precinct where the citizen exit poll is being conducted, so as not to compromise the non-partisan character of the citizen exit poll in any way.

Partisanship aside, I use to respect John McCain; he has of course as of late left me with a completely different impression of him with this campaign.
There are recent calls for Palin to withdraw for the good of the GOP (let alone the nation); I say, McCain should follow suit.
What a bunch of trite (80's Reaganite attempts) answers he gave. His mean spirited demeanor, his Bush like "unchanged" beliefs and his lack of being able to make eye contact solidified my concerns about the type of president he would make. I want real change. I am frankly tired of the America that the GOP has wrought.
I know that the tactics will resume by the McCain campaign (probably Palin out, Lieberman in) and they will keep the focus on the circus that has been and will continue to be their trade mark.
Tired I tell you.
Obama won and refreshingly so.

Dear Sheila,
Good luck with your plan. Anything that would get an actual verifiable outcome would be a miracle at this point. I'm on the other side of the country. Won't be seeing anyone at St. Baby's. Must sleep.
love,
Dave

COMMENT #15 written by Anthony Look:

"I am frankly tired of the America that the GOP has wrought."

Anthony, it's not just the GOP. And I'm so tired of reading that partisan pabulum on one website after the other. The Bush-enabling Dems have been equally complicit and responsible in this mess with the GOP since 2000. Period.

If you were being objective and truthful (rather than partisan) you would have written:

"I am frankly tired of the America that the GOP and the Dems have wrought" because we wouldn't be where we are today if the Bush-enabling Dems had not helped the GOP/Bush/Cheney/Rove et al nearly every step of the way since 2000. That's a fact. Most recently on this bail out. Anyone surprised? One shouldn't be at this point in time.

That's being objective and not partisan. I realize that partisan Dems can't bear to hear the TRUTH. They like to live in Denial about that, not talk about, shove it under the rug and put it all on Bush/the Repugs et al. because that's the "partisan" (my Dem team versus your Repug team) mentality that many people allow themselves to be programmed with. Well, I think that thinking is bull shit because it's not the truth/reality.

Just like the screwy thinking that "Obama supposedly knows that we will vote for him no matter what he says or does." Well, this "we" ain't going to that. This "we" is not about to do that. I never allowed myself to be programmed/controlled by others like that, to follow the "sheep." If there is an "election," I will vote for whomever I damn well please (and whose views I most closely agree with and support and who will be best for the nation/world). But I'm a realist, I don't engage in wishful-thinking and false hope when it comes to this politics shit. I also don't project my own views onto (blank slate) candidates. I know nothing is going to change no matter who gets in there between the two pro-war, pro-corporate, pro-FISA, anti-US Constitution, pro-Bush Republicrat candidates, assuming the current White House residents actually leave in January 2009. And I'll believe they are going to leave when I see them physically leave. I don't think they have any intention of going anywhere in January and there is no one to force them to leave especially with Unitary Executive Alito on the bench, having been put there with the help of the Bush-enabling Dems. I'm sure the Dems would more than welcome Bush/Cheney to stay on so the Dems can continue to work for them as most of them have done since 2000 and accomplish even more of their goals for Bush/Cheney. I have thought this since the Judicial Coup of 2000. And since then...Why would they steal 2 presidential "elections" to willingly turn their dictatorship over to someone else? And there's that Directive 51 they cooked up. Why would they cook up Directive 51 with no intention of using it?

I didn't waste my time watching the controlled so-called "debate," in part, because my candidates were not allowed to take part. So screw it.

The damn thing (the so-called "election," if there is one) will be stolen anyway just like in 2000 and 2004. To me, that's a given. Why would any thinking person think otherwise?...especially those on this website. The same corrupt, fraudulent, easily-hackable electronic voting machines will be used. Duh. Nothing has changed with that. The final result will likely be made to look something like: 51% to 49% regardless of what the actual legitimate results are and regardless of the voter turnout. Which candidates will be allowed to "win" is unknown at this point. "The people behind the curtain" already know though. I suspect it will be the candidates with the R behind their name.

My choice:

Nader/Gonzalez 2008, if there is an "election."

wow, erma's right on. directive 51- scary stuff.

Bush Declares Himself Dictator

...pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, indeed.

Only one problem, ERMA - you have a small bit of confusion interlarded with a lot of fact and emotion. There IS a problem with the Democrats - if there wasn't, Cheney, at least, would have been impeached and be out of there. What's the problem? LIARS. There are a number of "Democrats" who are not Democrats. Who? 1. Members of the "Democratic Leadership Council," as typified by its most prominent member, "Mafia Joe Lieberman." The best thing that can be said for the DLC is that it's Republican Lite. Had Gore chosen ANY other Democrat as veep, he'd probably be president right now - it's my belief that Joe sabotaged the ticket by the usual DLC tactic of stealing Republican positions (I hesitate to say "Ideas.")He may have done it deliberately, because I don't think he has any ideas of his own. In general the DLC goes along with whatever the GOP wants. They are NOT real "Democrats." Then there are the "Blue Dog Democrats," who are basically Libertarians. Definition of a Libertarian: "One who hates 'Governmental Interference' so much that he will vote to close the Fire Department while his own house is burning." These guys are NOT Democrats by ANY definition - but they are not Republicans either; they are just ideologues with their own warped mindset, who could not have been elected as Libertarians, so they called themselves Democrats. Then there are the Bush Dogs, who slavishly follow the traitorous Bush line; these are "False Flag" Democrats; actually Republicans, they are in Democratic Districts, KNOW that only Democrats can be elected, so change parties and treacherously talk the talk while they walk with Bush. Finally, there are REAL Democrats who are captives of money, and allow themselves to be used by people who are antithetical to Democratic ideals. This is the Felix Rohatyn influence. Rohatyn is an out-and-out FASCIST, a financier who supported Pinochet, a scion of Lazard Freres, bankers who supported Hitler, who supplies a lot of money to Democrats to campaign with, in order
to make sure that the Fascist position is solidly represented in the party. This is Nancy Pelosi, who calls Rohatyn a "Friend!"

Will Rogers was correct; when asked if he belonged to an organized political party, he replied, "NO. I'm a Democrat."

With so many traitors to the FDR principles, the only real Democratic ones, it is a marvel that anything constructive gets done. (The Republican Senate can make sure that the forces of reaction and treachery to the Constitution prevail. We need some honest politics!

Once again, Obama was professorial, lawyerly. He ignored the insult of his opponent's possibly racist refusal to make eye contact. Even though whiny, McCain was more powerful, which counts in a popular, informal debate. They're running for a powerful office, after all.
Now, there's only a few days for Palin's kids to get so sick they need their mom to step down to go home, and for Willard to step up to serve and debate. Or maybe the RudyJudy show, both the biggest opportunists to slither down the pike in a while.

I watch parts, part on cspan2 (till it dropped out) part on PBS ch 6 (Over the Air) , and got hungry for some serious Der Weinersnitchel chilli dogs and so caught the final part on FM Simulcast 8X.X FM (again over the air.)

I didn't hear either candidate talk any of the three points (I been screaming about) needed to fix the economy.

Then in true moderator tradition, the interruptions for time start. Right in the middle of a critical point.

Hey I have an idea, next debate should go for twelve hours, all candidates for president WILL BE PRESENT, no moderator, no time limits, if the media want's to attend, then put them on the list and give them PHOTO access, while the entire event is recorded live independently. I want to see them sweat, I want to see what they look like when they have three beers in them, I want to see how they do in hand to hand combat, I want to see questions about their knowledge of technology, programming, constitutional law, basic shit like that.

But instead we got the same old shit. Candidates lie and are never questioned about those lies. They don't give a fuck.

So I would have to say the best presentation of lies goes to McCain. Sorry Obama, you should have put your boot up his ass about the IRAQ/Surge bullshit. And stop letting him berate you about not "knowing this", or "not being there." What did they give McCain a qualude?

The best pitiful attempt at presenting the truth goes to Obama. He tried, but was too nice, and let McCain walk across his thought by interruption after interruption. Your a nice guy Obama, now stop being nice! Must have given Obama some meth...

Neither candidate changed my vote. Really there's nothing they can do anymore, it would have to be some spectacular clarity of common sense taking action against government corruption immediately that would do that. Something on par with Kucinich's Articles of Impeachment, but with TEETH that CUT.

Okay that's my take.. Don't hate me for my opinion

~phil

After watching the candidate's debate last night, it became apparent that Obama would be better to play the President in a movie, but McCain is the man who can actually do the job. Obama is like a movie set. He looks good, but behind the facade, there's nothing there. When you have no track record, like Obama, all you can do is criticize and attack America ... whereas McCain, who has actually contributed to this country for decades, obviously loves America. I never felt like Obama has sincere pride and love for this country, he just seems to be in this for personal ambition.

Well I believe McCain confirmed that he believes in dealing with other countries in a forcefull way. That scares me as we are not as powerfull as we think we are. We are having problems in Iraq i mean come on. Thats the worst thing that could happen. Of course we should interveen when it is absolutely necessary. Only then. Obama on the other hand has more charisma in his pinky than McCain in his whole body.

I still believe that neither one is what this country needs for the future, however with the control of the country in the hands of the Democrat and Republican party no one else has a chance. Its scary always the choice of the lesser evil to choose from. We need reform and new ideas to go with them. Not the same old same old. We have some unbelievable thinkers who have ideas and hopes that would pull this country back together.

In the future I wish and hope that we will realize that we need to lead the world by example and not by force. Show them how good life can be and they will follow us and support us supporting them at the same time.

I think that if people want freedom them will have to fight for it themselves. We did America earned their freedom by working very hard for it. Thats why we appreciate it. Let those who want freedom choose that for themselves. For Christ sake we still have schools here in america that don't even have text books. Yet we are worried about what happens 10,000 miles away?? I don't get it?

Defense wins games If they don't score they don't win. Your only as strong as your weekest link.

Peace to all Prosperiety and pursuit of happiness.

Thanks

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in American voters' minds. Most people around the world want Barack Obama to win, but many American voters have their own insular, essentially Medieval mindset on matters of import. Voters who think humans walked the earth with dinosaurs will help decide who becomes president of the a 21 century world superpower. It is true that Barack Obama didn't respond to Mccain's "naive" barbs. He should have struck back repeatedly, in a presidential sportsman-like manner, saying that McCain is "out of touch" with an approach not in keeping with modern times. When it came to style, McCain had a grimp-reaper-like countenance and the death-bed voice of someone sharing his last thoughts and advice to the up and coming generations. John McCain is a dinosaur himself --- mean, sickly, out of touch, and likely to croak as president if rigged elections, voter caging, and such-like put him in office. And who would take his place as president of the United States of America? Answer: Sarah Palin, a member of a doomsday cult church, who wields extremist views and who, as governor of Alaska has been a terrorist against animals, the environment, and nature. Very scary.

Both are turkeys. McCain a month ago said with great phony gusto,"I'm going to get Bin Ladin." And so did Obama last night just to match him. The truth is Bin Ladin is dead and the whole government knows this. They just need a face for the fake enemy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

McCain steamrolled Obama on 90% of the issues. You could see how uncomfortable and foolish Obama looked when debating anything relating to foreign policy. Obama's campaign discredits itself by claiming that Obama won. They should have admitted defeat and promised to try to do better next time.

Obama made much more sense than McCain, and demonstrated superior composure. McCain exposed a belligerent out-of-touch approach to international relations that is plain wrong for the 21st century. The only way McCain can win is the way Bush won --- via rigged elections. Thus, expect a concerted effort by right-wing terrorists against democracy --- Republican and Democratic alike (both parties are infested with corrupt corporate sycophants) --- to do so.

To McC's credit, he at least answered the question about voting for the bailout (he says "Yes"). Obama oughta say "No! I'm not gonna commit to anything, until we know what the bill is, and if it protects the tax payers!"

ok i thought he did say he wouldnt say either way until he saw the language,afterall a good bill can be ruined with a word here and there

obama set the principles that mcsame and bush came around to(altho i havent read what the reps from the house have added to screw things up)

from some of the praise on this thread of mcsame,i dont think i watched the same debate because mcsame looked like an idiot to me

he went on and on about cutting earmarks...18 billion worth of "savings" to pay for 300 billion in tax cuts? get real peops

on the which programs would get cut because of the bailout....mcsame says,maybe i would freeze all spending except for the military

obama said thats like trimming with a butcher knife when u need a scallple...mcsame would starve and freeze us....obama is one of us...for gods sake he just paid his student loans off about 2 yrs ago

i would like obama to be a lil fiestier too....i so hoped when mcsame said ovrsite obama would nail him on the fact the many reps r in contempt of congress for treating subpeonas like toilet paper and that mcsame is encouraging palin to do same i guess he isnt perfect but he is the ONLY CHANCE we have to regain our constitution and freedoms

i was taught rich guys will always run the world,the difference is in a democracy the peops can ban together and demand some basics

i was also taught when everything looks as if its hopeless...remember the bastille....the peasants ran at them with their tools and weapons until the guards couldnt lift their arms to kill another

the fed reserve is americas bastille...just think if the american peops benefitted from fractured banking instead of being enslaved?

Last night's debate is the first time I have ever hear Obama speak for more than a few minutes. I don't like his demeanor. I want to state right from the beginning that I am a Republican, but I wanted to be fair. So, instead of listening to both candidates' negative attack adds and rhetoric I went to the one place where you can find the the truth. The Congressional Record, also know as Thomas. If you want to know what bills each candidate has sponsored, and how each candidated has voted go there. You can google it by typing Congressional voting record+Thomas. Then go to the pull down menu under senators and look at both Senator McCain and Obama. Then make a an informed decision for yourself who would best represent all of America, not just segments of it. Don't let the media, your next door neighorbor or anyone else make this judgement for you. Be an informed voter.

God Bless America.

As a Canadian who observes from the outside, I can say that Canadians almost universally want Obama to win. Around the world 80% of those polled hope for Barack Obama to become president of the United States. My main problem with Barack Obama is that he is NOT liberal enough, not by a long shot (eg supporting FISA, making supportive statements towards offshore oil-drilling, despite the vulnerability of such rigs to massively spill oil in serious storms). The problem with the United States today is the anti-business atmosphere that prevents small businesses from thriving. This stems from the thieving looter mentality of those very same banks/mortgage companies that are now imploding and wreaking havoc on the US economy( the ones paying lobbyists to corrupt the US government into deregulating, that is creating a dangerous situation lawlessness, which no regulation is). It is time for Americans to rid themselves of the corporate welfare shackles that stifle genuine free enterprise. As a pro-American (and therefore anti-Republican/anti-fascist Democrat) and a big fan of the US constitution, I really hope those anti-American fascist extremists, Republican and Democrat alike, who've been defiling the US constitution, and attacking the integrity of US democracy through such anti-American practices as voter caging, electronic election rigging, stifling registration for war veterans and other despicable and America-hating criminal acts... are duly punished in courts of law.

COMMENT #29 Teresa C wrote:

"God Bless America."

Sigh.

If some "god" were going to bless "America," we wouldn't be in the dismal state that we're in to begin with. (Unless this "god" likes to see people suffer...and then you're dealing some sick-assed god who needs some intense psychotherapy).

And which "America" are you referring to? There are three: South, Central and North.

Judging by the state of things elsewhere, I would suggest that South America and Central America need "god's blessing" far more than the greedy, self-centered North America.

Why is it always self-centered and greedy "America" that people are begging for and asking for "god's blessings?"

What about the rest of the world? Is this "god" supposed to ignore them?

North America is not the center of the universe.

I would much prefer god bless the world, if anything that needs to be said at all.

But since despicable and repugnant people are responsibility for where we are today (along with fraudulent "elections") it will require people---and not some hokus-pokus god supposedly floating around somewhere---to get us out of this mess, if that were at all possible.

Whenever I see the phrase "God Bless America" I think. Is it a plea to God to please bless us or statement that god has and will always bless us? I like to think its the former. That's the only way it make any sense to me.

It should always be written "God Bless America - Please"

Thanks Erma @ 31, re: "And which "America" are you referring to? There are three: South, Central and North"
I think we (Canada) should have the title North America alone or drop it and become just Canada. The States alone will be called "America" as that is what they do now anyway. Most Canadians say " the States" , we don't usually call your country "America".

The debate, dull, IMO. I would love to have seen Kucinich up against McCain.

#30 brilliant............what would happen if the US govt. gave their people 700 billion. Some would blow it.... but that would help the economy..........some would pay off mortgages , send kids to college(nobody would join the military) start small businesses. Put up solar panels..I think the world would be more peaceful. If the 700 billion goes to reward criminal behavior on Wall Street and the banking community ...there might be some rioting. Maybe that is why the military is being deployed on US soil Oct. 1.

God less America.

That would be so much nicer.

McCain did better than I expected. He lied throughout, of course, but at least he didn't stumble and look completely senile.

There were so many times when Obama could have brought out the whammy stick but didn't. The earmarks, for instance. OK, John, why did you choose a VP who has requested hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks and has used indicted Ted Stevens' son's lobbying firm to get them?

Thankfully, Palin is a total rube. Her interview with Katie Couric was just embarassing. She doesn't have the slightest clue what she's talking about.

I hope that's enough. Obama needs to be far more aggressive in debate. I'm waiting to see how Biden manhandles Palin.

No, not like that. Gross.

At this point, comments on who won the debate mean nothing, as Obama and McCain have become the spokespersons of two discredited parties. As of Friday, I had hoped that the House Republicans, at least, were making serious efforts to stop the dreadful and outrageous bailout bill. Obviously they were not, and they are equally complicit with all the other Washington leaders in enacting this legislation that massively transfers wealth away from the middle and working classes to the richest and most powerful, and may break the U.S. Treasury. This bailout means, at the very least, the end of the two party system in America, as both parties have shown themselves to be completely removed from the interests of the people. We, the public, have made our overwhelming opposition to the bailout plan absolutely clear, and we have been ignored. The implications of this breakdown in American democracy will be vast and historical.

Brad, Raw Story just broke the story that Michael S. Connell has been served with a subpoena in Ohio for alleged vote-tampering during the 2004 presidential election. Of curse, Connell is refusing to testify or come up with the documents. Thought you might like to know..:)

Exactly what are the arrows pointing to ???

Tom Brokaw is biased... He commented on Biden character, saying he needs a gene transplant to come off a certain way. And he is carrying his biases into this debate. He has thanked McCain 5 times so far, that I've counted, and has not thanked Obama once. Every time he comments on the fact that the candidates are going over time, he does it immediately following Obama's discussion.

I wouldn't vote for either of them. I don't know what is the American elites point of view on either of them. They are both salesmen indebted to a few entities. What is the difference between a share holder with 20 pieces of paper in the file cabinet and the share holder at the big wooden table? I like how the guy summed it up at www.slothbob.com