Isn't he saying that we don't have a democracy? I can't wait until he goes down. He ruined the Republican Party for decades. The only thing they have going for them is the e-vote machines. That's it.

I wonder if Bush watched last night's episode of 24...

Bush has caused a deep, deep hatred by many, many Americans for the Republican Party, by not being more moderate. It is so deep, it won't be undone for decades. Republicans should be very, very worried what Bush has done to their party. The only thing left is really counting our votes, so we can get them out of there. And stealing the elections caused even deeper hatred of the Republican Party. It backfired, stealing the elections.

The Republican part will soon become as popular as the Nazi party in present day Germany. There will be a few closet Repubs but no one will admit to it.

Well, I can dream can't I.

In addition to Bush's swaggering authoritarianism, he also uses informal speech, including nicknames for members of his cabinet. He continues to demonstrate how little he resembles a statesman, let alone a president.

I'm the decider? as opposed to "It's my descision"? Man o man, he sounds more and more like a spoiled 6 year old every day.

I'M THE DECIDER!! ME ME ME! NOOOOO!!! I won't go to my ROOM!! I DECIDEDERED I AINT GOTTA!

"I hear the voices" Isn't that a sign of insanity?

"I read the front page" since when? He's already admitted he doesn't read the paper or watch the news.

Dan,
What are you smokin'? When you went out for dinner did you buy gas at Citgo? I hope so. Here, this is for you:

Dan, read this response to you.

Topic:
Of course the President makes the decisions. When Pres.Clinton listened to his military advisors about going into Bosina, some for and some against, Clinton listened to the advice and ultimately made the decision to bomb Bosina targets. Same with Somolia where Army generals were denied the use of tanks by Pres.Clinton and SECDEF Aspen. 19 Army Rangers were killed and their bodies were dragged through the streets and mutilated.

Same thing with Pres.Truman and the atomic bomb. Do you think that Truman wanted to incinerate those people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Of course he did not. Some of his advisors were against the bomb but others were against a manned invasion of Japan based on their soldiers fighting to the death in the islands and some people killing themselves before US troops arrived. So ultimately Pres.Truman made the difficult decision to get the Japanese Emperor's attention by using the bomb.

If Pres.Clinton had said what Pres.Bush just said today, then you would have no problem with it.

"Those boys can't bomb an outhouse without my say so." --- Pres. Lyndon Johnson

Pres.Bush listens to his people. Pres.Johnson didn't.

The political pendulum swings back and fourth all the time. Sometimes it stays longer on one side then sometimes it stays longer on the other side.

If you guys win back the House and/or the Senate in November, then the American people will deserve to see just how Democrats will screw up like they did before. High taxes, high unemployment, and high government programs for couch-potatoes so that they can raise more couch-ppotatoes.

Moderate? Your party is controlled by the liberal wing, not the moderate wing, of the Democrats.

Stealing elections? Get over it! Didn't happen, not in 2000 not in 2004. It was close in 2000 but 2004 was won by over 3 million votes. How can you be so clueless??

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator; leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction.... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23, 2003

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

Yep, the Republicans were all wrong to push for invading Iraq. Yep, it's all the Republican's fault, huh? Scheez. You people make me laugh, but it's a sad laugh.

Try to have a nice day!

Based on lies buddy - it was all based on lies!

Savantster and Bluebear 2, you people are being childish and immature. You know that, but you constantly do it anyway.

He is absolutely right, BTW. When you get to be elected President then you can make the decisions.

Later!

If the president decides it, it's the best decision!

Sieg Heil... Mike J....Bush.....Cheney and all Republicans.

To the dictatorship that the Republicans have created.

"Stealing elections? Get over it! Didn't happen, not in 2000 not in 2004. It was close in 2000 but 2004 was won by over 3 million votes. How can you be so clueless??
"

LOL.. moron.. How come the exit polls show 5 million the OTHER WAY, yet it was ignored? You say "close" in 2000, yet a SHRUBBY CRONIE stopped the counting and it was handed to Shrubby in court, not in the elctorate. Then look at all the machine problems we have now (that were mostly present in 2004 as well, but no one talks much about it) and tell me "he was elected" and I'll laugh in your pea-brained face.

And get off this bullshit of "that president did it, it's ok for this one!".. that's as childish an excuse as your president's mentality.

Get over yourself, Mike J. Shilling for Shrubby and the GOP makes you a pathetic laughable joke. Constantly bringing up "Dems did this or that!" as a defense makes you an idiot. Pretty much no one here agrees with ANY "wrong doing", regardless of who does it, unlike your party (laws are meant for us common folk, not the Rebpulican leaders and religious leaders and board memebers, right?).

And Kerry has been accused of being right up there with Shrubby for being a neo-con. Personally, I don't like Kerry very much since he supported the war (initially, you'd have to be a moron to not see all the evidence that suggest we NOT invade), and is perfectly ok with shitting on the rights of HUMAN BEINGS in this country (his gay-rights failings make me sick). Kerry is no "Democrat", get it? Nor is he all that decent of a human being, in my book. He's a politician and as screwed up as MOST of those rich pricks in Congress.

You have a nice day.. in your delusion and self-importance.

MIKE J - You forgot to add about the Democratic Administration....the biggest surplus EVER !
High taxes ? For who? The top 10 % maybe?

We are the middle class taxpayers here there were WELL paying jobs, the abortion rate was down BECAUSE Clinton's administration believed in education, the poverty rate was less. Teachers were not leaving in droves because they spend hours teaching for the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND test instead of teaching what children need to make this a better world. Check that out with any teacher.

I will take intelligence and diplomacy with SKILLED leaders anyday over this arrogant, spoiled man who cares NOTHING for the poor and middle class.

Clinton would have finished off Rumsfeldt's friend, Osama, in Afganistan NOT LIED us into Iraq and murdering 2371 young Americans and countless Iraqi men, women and children !

You know, I think that smiley waving a flag expresses precisely the content of Mike J's character, and the depth of his patriotism too.

BVAC, if Clinton had said that exact quote, then you and your liberal friends would have no problem with what he said and how he said it. But since you hate Pres.Bush so much, you can't see reason.

Jaded, I've never been called a Nazi before. I don't like it. You truly are a low-life jerk of an idiot who wants to see things that are not true.

I think the funniest and most ironic thing about bush and his criminal thug RepubliCON party is that they worked so hard to steal the presidency and other elections as well. They thought they were selling the GOP party to America so that they would have dominance for many years.

Although they have destroyed many part of our country, they have destroyed the RepubliCON party for many, many years!
:-)

Mike J.

Defending Bush by calling his critics Clinton lovers? How passe.

Meanwhile, "I'm the decider" ... is that Harvard MBA language?

MIKE J - One more thing, you believe so strongly in Bush's war, why are you here instead of in Iraq?
Just you and 120,000 Young College Republicans who shoot their mouth off and let someone else fight and die for them.

A ret General said it best, " How easy it is to make a war when you have never had to fight or bury the dead."

You stateside Bush supporters make me sick, what a bunch of cowards !!! Just like the man you support.

Oh, man, texaslady, he'd whoop their butts with his smileys! One look at his "test results" waving and they'd straighten up and fly right in a big ass hurry.

Anyone got a yawning smiley? He's becoming boring!

Savantster,
Actually I'm laughing at just how nutty you are for believing that crap!

Savanster: crazy wacko

The machine problems in the 2000 election were stupid people who had trouble voting on a butterfly ballot designed by a Democrat. 17 counties in FL used the butterfly ballot in that election, but it was 4 of those counties in south FL that could not figure out how they worked and their election officials kept chaning the rules as to how they would re-count the "votes". Those morons in Palm Beach county that were yelling "RE-Vote" because they were too stupid the first time are the ones who make you people look stupid.

I've told you wackos before that there is one good reason that voter fraud did not exist in Florida 2000. It's because the FL Atty General that year was Bob Butterworth. Don't recognize the name? Check with Al Gore Jr. Bob was Gore's Florida campaign manager in 2000. So if anybody was doing voter fraud, then dear old Bob would have prosecuted them.

Later, shelple!

It's the old white bread, smilie test "If it makes me feel smug, it must be right."

We're missing a talking point here. The MSM always prefaces the comments of these generals with "retired". In fact active duty personel in the military are not allowed by military regulations to make political comments in the media. Thus, all comments must come from retired personel. On the flip side of that, the administration has no problem premitting this when they are agreed with.

As for it being inappropriate for retired generals to make critical comments, I recall a George Washington (retired general) making quite a few. I guess he should have had his fanny spanked for that.

Yep, incompetent is as incompetent does. He's so deep in his unquestioned ideology - he really can't see how wrong he is on everything. No wonder he's failed at everything he's done.. except cheat and lie of course (getting out of the National Guard AWOL rap, fraudulent elections, lying us into Iraq....)

Mike J

The problem that I have with your position is that it is not based on verifiable facts. We on the left ask why do you back Bush and the best you can come up with are smug flip answers. I was in the military and it is stunning that 6 flag officers have asked for Rummie's resignation. Bush say's he listens to his military commanders but refuses to take their advice. Most of the soldiers running for public office are running as Democrats. Instead of telling "us" to "get over it", why don't you do a little critical thinking and stop ask yourself why. You don't look at Bush's background in respect of his military service or past business failures. What I find utterly unbelievable is during the Vietnam war when he could have served he chose to not to but played it safe and went to the national guard. John Kerry and Max Cleland got shot at in real combat but their service wasn't good enough. The Bush family is knee deep in cahoots with the Bin Ladin family with multimillion dollar business deals for decades and you won't even stop and question it. 911 happened on Bush's watch but somehow it's Clinton's fault. Bush and Cheney lied time and time again about the connection between 911 and Hussein but somehow that's ok. Bush claimed the structures found after the Iraq invasion were proof of WMD and kept saying it for almost a year. We find out a team of 9 from the Pentagon reported even before Bush's announcement that it had nothing to do with WMD's. A blatent lie but that's ok with you. Cindy Sheehan lost her son and asked "for what noble cause did my son die?" But since it ain't affecting your life why should you care. Since you support Bush so much why don't ya pick up a gun and stand a post.

Oh and Savantster,
Where is your proof? You don't have it!

So, what you don't seem to understand is that you lost! You lost! You lost! You lost! Seriously, the sooner you get over it the better for you and your health. You know, stress, headaches, stomachaches, eye strain, etc.

Hey TEXASLADY, Pres.Bush was your Governor before he was our President. Bet you hate that too!

As I've told others here, I did serve in the military when I was younger. I have both active duty time and active reserves time in the military. Do you or your family? So I understand what duty, honor, courage, commitment, and dignity are. You and your liberal friends who attack the President are certainly entitled to your opinion. Even if you opinion is misguided and factually incorrect, you have the right to it!

I know several teachers both in my family and friends at church. The unemployment rate is lower now than it has been in years! Abortions have increased as population increases. Of course I wish that it was lower or none. But Clinton's education department was giving out condoms in school and his Surgeon General was teaching high school boys how to masterbate. Did you like that?

The surplus was done by a REPUBLICAN Congress that Clinton had to be dragged kicking and screaming to sign the budget. Then when it worked he claims credit for it. Same thing with welfare reform. There's your joke!

You got a problem with freedom of speech? OH, yea, I forgot. It's ok only if the speech agrees with your liberal agenda.

"Clinton would have finished off Rumsfeldt's friend, Osama, in Afganistan NOT LIED us into Iraq and murdering 2371 young Americans and countless Iraqi men, women and children !" --- TexasLady

1) Clinton was offered Osama three times by the government of Sudan. He turned them down because "we had no legal right to hold him".
2) The troops were not murdered. This is war! More US troops were killed in several battles each during WWII than this entire campaign in Iraq.
3) The civilians being killed in Iraq ARE being murdered by terrorists. But I guess you don't think they are terrorists, do you? You probably think they are paid by super secret rouge CIA agents under direct orders from Pres.Bush.

No, BVAC. If it was good for Pres.Clinton and other Democrat presidents, you and your liberal friends are ok with that. But Pres.Bush does it and you think it's not good. Sounds like hypocrite behavior, you know. Check into that.

FunME, Pres.Bush is the ONLY President to earn his MBA. He did it, whereas Gore Jr. flunked out of divinity school. Gore Jr. got an early release from the Army in order to enter that school. So that got him out of Vietnam and his bodyguard protection during his few times in the field.

Anyone who does not believe that exit polls predict election results is an absolute idiot. I'm writing about you, Mike J.

My degrees are in mathematics and statistics. What are yours, Mr. J?

Mr. Zogby knows that the elections were stolen and so does anyone with an above-average IQ.

All that cocain took his brain, Bush doesn't have a mind anymore. Heavy drug use in the past can make a mad man. It's to bad the only brain cell left is the mad man one.

I don't believe "mike j" spent 30 seconds in the military.

2) The troops were not murdered. This is war! More US troops were killed in several battles each during WWII than this entire campaign in Iraq.

So Bush's lies make it ok for all of our soldiers deaths?

Mike, you still haven't given us any facts to backup your point. You just resort to name calling and telling someone they lost. You sort of are avoiding the questions aren't you?? Is it because you can't answer them? Because even you can't listen to the answers yourself? Because they contradict everything you supposedly believe in?

Give me some qualities of the Republican party. What issues matter to you? Define a republican for me? Can you?

I always thought a Republican for one was fiscally conservative. Did something happen or is it me that sees us 8+ Trillion in debt? Just curious. Maybe you have been had and Bush is a Republican imposter.

This mike j guy just parrot's gop talking point's

FACT : these republicans neocons & conservatives Lie Cheat Steal & KILL for MONEY $ $ $ Their Real Values $ $ $

New PROTEST BU$H image from TODAY

( i i i i Me Me Me LIE LIE LIE )

at

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& from Yesterday

( the VULTURE the PIG & the STARVING CHILD )

Thank U, & PROTEST ON - EARTH CITIZENs
.

Mike J

As I stated in my previous post, you don't back up your positions with verifiable facts

1) Clinton was offered Osama three times by the government of Sudan. He turned them down because "we had no legal right to hold him".

In fact, though conservatives have frequently repeated the accusation that the Clinton administration declined an offer by Sudan to hand over bin Laden, the 9-11 Commission rejected it as baseless. Chapter 4 of the commission's final report stated: "Sudan's minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand Bin Ladin over to the United States. The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so."
"mediamatters.org"

Tastydc #27,

"The problem that I have with your position is that it is not based on verifiable facts." --- Tastydc

This is my first response to you on this board. So you have to understand. When I see you say I'm not using verifiable facts, I laugh. Your liberal friends here type the craziest of things with no proof or "verifiable facts".

The people believing in explosives destroyed the WTC are the utmost at that. The people who keep ranting on about "Bush stole 2 elections". The one who keep ranting about Haliburton and Cheney. Etc. etc. whine whine hate hate......

I don't have something to prove. The liberals here have something to prove and they can't. I don't have to prove that their theories are wrong. They are the ones who spat their crazy ideas without proving anything because they have no verifiable facts.

Six retired generals out of 9000. Do the math. They are entitled to their opinion, just like you, just like me, just like the liberal people here. But for every retired general who is against the war, the liberal media could find one or two who supports the war. But the media does not want to interview those who are for the war.

Oh, well, I guess convincing these liberals this is a lost cause. But I may try again from time to time.

Tastydc, you have been more respectful so far than the other people here.

See Ya!

republican Pigs Are Feeding @ the Public Trough. . . The way gop's Think is "whats mine is mine & whats Yours is mine"

Mike J

These aren't just "6 out of 9000". They are the top men in their field in regards to the war planning in Iraq. I respect their opinion because they've "been there" What you are doing is trying to minimize their opinions with a meaningless statistic that has nothing to do with the truth of what they are trying to say. You've been in the military and never has the top brass spoken in such a manner before. Critical thinking requires objectivity and cold hard facts not spin and talking points.

bush & mike j wouldn't know a fact if it bit them on the ASS. . . . . lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. lie. . .

In debating with those "seduced by Bush", it is important to remember the worlds of David Hume.

"Nothing appears more surprising to those who consider human affairs with a philosophical eye than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few; and the implicit submission with which men resigned their own sentiments and passion to those of their rulers."

Therefore if Mr. Bush says "I decide what is best," the seduced will always agree!

Mike J: Just a thought: All of these generals speaking out against Bush...are they "unpatriotic"..."against the troops"..."giving comfort to the enemy"...??????

Guess what, Mike J, THEY ARE THE F***ING TROOPS!!!

If the president decides it, it's the best decision!

BVAC, if Clinton had said that exact quote, then you and your liberal friends would have no problem with what he said and how he said it. But since you hate Pres.Bush so much, you can't see reason.

Defending Bush by calling his critics Clinton lovers? How passe.

No, BVAC. If it was good for Pres.Clinton and other Democrat presidents, you and your liberal friends are ok with that. But Pres.Bush does it and you think it's not good. Sounds like hypocrite behavior, you know. Check into that.

***

What a lovely sequence of thoughts. Let's all look at this in some depth. First, I fabricate a Nixon-inspired phrase to show the hubris of the Bush administration, the existence of which is hardly disputed in most circles. For this, Mike J says that I am so full of HATE! that my higher brain functions cease and I can no longer see reason (because, you see, I am blinded by hate). This presumption was immediately preceded by an assumption that I am some kind of unapologetic Clinton-loving liberal vanguard.

The old Clinton bait and switch is a very stale tactic, and I point that out. For this, I get another strawman from Mike J, full of paranoid delusions and cries of 'hypocrite!'. Mike J, I didn't say a single thing in defense of Clinton, ever, but you keep bringing him up. You've got nothing else. You lose. Go away, and don't come back until you've got something to bring to the table.

Afterwards Mike J, in what I imagine was a rabid foaming-at-the-mouth unhinged moment, throws around some conspiracy theory about Clinton letting Bin Laden go free. Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

What is "mike j" miltary sevice ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Mike J: I was against the Bosnian War, I don't like Bill Clinton, and I really don't like Hillary Clinton. I believe our military should be strictly defensive, like George Washington said it should be. No "pre-emptive" bombing. Are you for spending all of our tax money on weapons attacking countries? Not on the poor paid actual people in the military, mind you, whose pay should be instantly doubled. We could be using these trillions of dollars on our own country, not Iraq. America first! Let the other countries sort out their own problems. The Iraq War will go down in history as the hugest mistake of any American president, and he lied us into it to boot. And what about the military industrial complex profits? Should ANYONE profit on war? That's what it's all about, Mike J. YOU are smoking something...and drinking the Kook-Aid.

Have a nice day.

"mike j" this is for u "http://www.goarmy.com/flindex.jsp" Be All u can B. . . . .

"Truth Seeker",
You're next!

My degree is in computer science with courses in software engineering, programming languages, database systems, data structures, statistics, managerial science, accounting, economics, etc. I've worked as a database administrator for several years and currently am working as an application developer on several projects. Happy now?

Mr. Zogby is a Democrat. His brother runs an Arab group that I'm not going to take the time to lookup the name. So tell Zogby to take his statistics to the Dept. of Justice and prove it.

I understand how exit polls work, but you guys have had 17 months since the 2004 election to prove wrongdoing. Hasn't happened. No legal challenge on the national level has made it up the chain. It's a dead issue.

So you can have all your opinions and hate and nashing of teeth. But it won't do you any good. Sen.Kerry still lost and Pres.Bush still won. The sooner you get over it the better. Unless you are planning a coup....

You know what cracks me up about conservatives? They say things like "only 2,300 Americans died in the Iraq War"..."that was like one battle in WWII". So, that makes it "OK" that 2,300 Americans died??? You people are scum! I just heard a conservative, who are illogically "for" the death penalty btw, say "liberals say 121 innocent people have died on death row...this is liberal propoganda!!! ...only about 40 innocent people have died on death row."

HUH??? 40 innocent people is "OK"??? This is the retarded "Kook-Aid" mentality of rightwingers. They make no sense, they don't care about people dying...they justify innocent people dying by comparing it to MORE innocent people dying. "Less innocent people died than blah blah blah, so, you see? This is "OK"." You people really make me sick!

What is "mike j" miltary sevice ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

BlueBear2,
This is for you since you asked:
I could not find a yawning smiley. But I tried just for you. :rolleyes:

Cheers!

"mike j "do you dress up like a soldier & bring those toys when U see the shrink ? ? ?

Mr. MJ Smug - You are talking nonsense. "Crazy ideas", "no verifiable facts". You obviously would prefer to exist in Smugatonia fairyland than to discuss anything specific. But that's not helpful in discerning the truth. There are reams of specifics on vitiated elections and very strong evidence of stolen elections - as well as obvious recount-stopping. (I'm not saying this as a Democrat. I'm not a Democrat and disliked Clinton and many of his policies intensely.)

I doubt whether anyone on this list has the time to educate someone like you who is not looking for education, but why don't you do a little research before you come in with your lightweight smugisms for all the world to see?

Sticking with specifics, I agree that it is not such a terrible thing for Bush to say, "I'm the decider." It's just that it is so much in character. It wouldn't be so funny or revealing if Clinton said it. (Although, it would be somewhat out of character in his case.)

If you talk of "war", you might consider specifics, too, including Iraqi culture and the incessant, specific, verifiable lies of the Bush administration. (You don't mind being lied to, do you?) A republic by "trust us" (even though we are liars)? I don't think so.

We might also talk of the Constitution and how numerous "executive orders" and so on have made much of it "conditional" which would make it irrelevant.

Wake up. You'll encounter all kinds of people on a blog like this - some foolish, some choleric, some patient, some mature, some immature. That's all irrelevant to the truth or falsity of the issues under discussion.

No more from me tonight. I'm off to the movies.

Mike J,

My comments about exit polls are not opinions. Probabilities and sample spaces are proven statistical realities. With your computer background, you should know that simple voting machines can be hacked. This fact has been proven many times over on bradblog and numerous state and local investigations.

Does it bother you all that only Republicans have benefited from results that did not agree with exit polls?

History will remember you and your kind as enablers of a criminal administration. Enjoy your hyprocrisy.

Mike J,

Are lies OK?

Incompetence? Nepotism? Conflict of interest? Fake news? Fake intelligence? Criminal negligence? Fraud? Embezzlement? Money Laundering? Bribery? Treason? Torture? Mass Murder?

Where do you get off? Do you have any time for truth, integrity, ethics?

Welcome all to the "First American Dictatorship"

An amendment to Truth Seeker #55

Incompetence? Nepotism? Conflict of interest? Fake news? Fake intelligence? Criminal negligence? Fraud? Embezzlement? Treason?

All it takes is a mediocre troll like Mike J to get on here & support Bush & a slew of people actually answer his childish statements.

I slammed him on his idiotic support of the Catholic Church & priests---despite overwhelming evidence that they don't deserve it---back at the thread about the 'Pope postcard' from the fruitcup.

He ran home to mama without answering.

He's not gonna give up his strange ideas about Bush either.

He's not rational.

Mike J: "Get over it"

That is of course the trademark republican substitute for providing a valid argument on electoral fraud in 2004.

----

Mike J: I understand how exit polls work, but you guys have had 17 months since the 2004 election to prove wrongdoing. Hasn't happened.

At least then.. you'll understand that exit polls apparently erred outside the margin of error so much so that the results we were told... were statistically speaking, not viable... not even close.

As someone who appears to think they're clued up on these issues... if there was no wrongdoing...

Why did Moyer need to protect Blackwell and the Republicans from legal action in Ohio?

Why have people been indicted over election malpractice?

Are you unaware that we have evidence that machines have been approved by states even though they've not met the regulations required by federal law?

Have you not noticed how we've now got proof that votes could easily have been flipped in 2004 through numerous tactics?

Mike J.: "They are the ones who spat their crazy ideas without proving anything because they have no verifiable facts."

Results from investigations and demonstrations by BBV and Harry Hursti are pretty hard to ignore, but of course to you... even demonstrating something in public isn't "verifiable fact"... because simply, it doesn't support your naive, partisan perspective.

People taking polygraph tests to prove their point, affadavits from election workers citing malpractice by voting machine companies... these things are verifiable and on public record.

Tests showing ES&S and Diebold having a 30% failure rate in some cases... again, public record.

Results that show specifically... the deviation from exit-polls was minimal in areas that didn't use electronic voting. (Which means that areas using electronic voting were most likely to be anomolous in comparison.)

With the large majority of that anomolous shift being towards votes-for-Bush. - Again... the numbers are available, various studies have been done and continue to be done.

Looking at your posts.. I see you sway towards 9/11 conspiracy theorists and those against the war... like a general swipe at liberals... the thing you fail to realise is that this shows you can't stay on topic... you can't or don't want to focus your argument and are deviating... it's a sign of someone who has a weak argument.

It's also exposed some of your beliefs. So, seeing as though you want to deviate... I have some questions...

Do you still believe Saddam could have hit us within 30 minutes?
Do you still think the "mobile chemical weapons labs" were actually chemical weapons labs?
Do you still think the "insurgents" are primarily from foreign countries?
Do you still believe these "insurgents" are in their "last throes"?
Do you still believe WMDs are hidden there somewhere?
Do you still believe that Saddam and his government were being uncooperative in 2003?
Do you still believe riots were triggered in Afghanistan because of the alleged Koran desecration reported in the media?
How about the Anthrax attacks which primarily hit Democrats (possibly only Democrats!?)... do you still believe they were the work of Saddam, Al-Quaeda or muslim extremists? (despite the Anthrax DNA indicating it was from USAMRIID stock... with some speculation it was from Fort Detrick in Maryland.)

Just how many lies do you believe in or have you accepted at some point? And how many more will you accept? ... all the while preaching at us about 'verifiable facts'... something your party seems to have no concept of before it opens it's mouth and starts waging wars.

mike j --- do you actually read BradBlog, or do you just troll around in comments? your claims regarding the elections of 2000 and 2004 are so uninformed that one can only assume that you haven't been keeping up.... or that your reading comprehension skills need some work.

i'm just too tired to go through your fact-less regurgitations of popular republican myth, so i will simply extend the invitation to you to do your due diligence and actually read up on the subject here at Brad Blog, all of it sourced and linked for your edification and confirmation, or on any site that uses actual information rather than supposition.

please educate yourself before you attempt to school anyone here on the subject of election reform. you are out of your league, and it just makes you look foolish when the the refutations to your every word (sourced, verified, confirmed) are just a few clicks away --- start at the front page of BB.

by the way, my younger brother served two tours in Afghanistan and two in Baghdad in the last six years. although he leans conservative, he and i both agree on one thing: always put country before party. always.

he was there. my brother made it home safe, thank God. without revealing too much about him, he was and is in a position to know what's actually happening, and it is not good.

the funniest thing you've said is that "Pres.Bush listens to his people." maybe he sees their mouths moving, but he doesn't hear them --- at least, he doesn't listen to the people who have actually been to war before or the people who are actually doing the fighting and dying in his opportunistic war of choice --- he seems to listen only to his civilian buddies, who have never served or seen actual combat.

why on earth would you consider that a good thing?

Mike J obviously thinks he's cool beans with his emoticons. Or maybe they are emotineocons. They are tedious.

Anyway, Mike J, Bush is delusional. Because I'M THE DECIDERERERER. I have more STRATEGERY and I'm CONFIDENTER that I can do HECKUVA BETTERER JOB (you know, that's when people are working - I can be a JOB CREATERER TOO.)

Gawd, wouldn't it be nice to have "command of the English language" be a job requirement for the highest office in the land. But I guess that's what Bush is best at...lowering standards.

Oh, brother. He's, like, maybe, thirteen, stops in here between video games to rile adults, and people fall for it. Take the clue from his stupid little smilies and his complete lack of authorities.

Charlene

At another thread I presented an article regarding Bushco using the Mujahedeen-e Khalq terrorist orginazation to stir things up in Iran. I asked him what he thought about it. His response: "Don't point me to RawStory. I would not point you to Drudge Report because you would not believe Drudge. RawStory appears to be a liberal viewpoint news website.

In his "I address this to you in another thread." reference he stated he only believes news from the MSM and refused to explore anything else.

He rolls out the "Hate" line frequently and posts very few links to support his arguments. Some of those he has posted Debate Grows over Iranian Prez have already been debunked

And I do read the Drudge Report - In fact many of the headlines up there right now could also be found at Raw Story within the last few days.

Smirk's - Smile's - Grin's . . . It's like deja vu all over again . . . . . . . again . . .

No Dan, it's not ok. As usual for liberals you misunderstand. What I'm trying to have you understand is that WWII was much more of a sacrifice on a daily basis. People tend to live in the moment without looking at the lessons of our history. People tend to think that these are the worst of times instead of the best of times. I'm pointing out that WWII was far worse on soldiers killed than this war in Iraq.

As for your comment about the death penalty, I don't want ANY people who are truly innocent to be executed for a crime that they really did not commit. So it's good that we have DNA evidence now to clear some of those men who should not have been convicted in the first place. But as for the truly guilty, like guilty of murder (1st or 2nd degree) I think murder should get the death penalty.

So I will not speak for all conservatives just as you will not speak for all liberals. My opinions are my own. I align with the Republicans because most, not all, of my opinions are with them. There have been a few Democrat ideas that I have liked, but the vast majority I don't.

Tom wants to know positions on issues. Ok.
how about letting a CEO make a decision based on all the facts available at the time.
for the death penalty but against abortion. The difference is that someone convicted of death penalty is guilty of murder (vast majority), but an unbord baby is innocent of anything, yet you want a choice to kill that baby. Yes, it's a baby not a "fetus". Heartbeat at 3 weeks, brainwave activity at 6 weeks. Think about that.

Liberals are supposed to be kind and compassionate. I sure don't see that here. Most of what I see here is pure hatred.

Charlene,
If you asked a question after I last looked at that tread, then I'll be happy to go back there and answer it. You may think in your smug liberal mind that you "slammed" me, but if you check it again I actually agreed with SOME of your statements, certainly not all. So before YOU go spouting off your childish comments (like "troll"), perhaps YOU should check the record.

Have a "nice" day!

I was making coffee this morning while my 13 year old was eating breakfast, and the news was on. The video clip came on local news, and when Bush said, "I'm the decider, I'll decide what is best", my kid said - " the DECIDER?? Is our President learnin gooder English?" I laughed, and he turned and said, "Mom, don't be misunderestimatin him now"

*L*

"I decide what's best." Yes, Bush, you decide. But you haven't DETERMINED what's best, which is what the country needs from you. Determinations, not just decisions.

It's possible to decide that the world is flat. The word carries with it no intellectual strength, merely dogmatic authority to proclaim something. And Bush's constant need to remind us that he's the boss, that he's in charge, after five years of continuous lies and miscalculations, shows how pathetically weak and inept he is. It ain't gonna' get better, folks.

And before Mike J wastes bandwidth trying to correct me (sorry Mike J, I don't read your posts, you pegged the bs meter once too often), let me say it first - yes, I know that "decider" is a real word.

So are the words "fixing" and "ain't" - but I don't expect the President to go on tv and say, "I'm fixing to bomb Iran and there ain't nothing y'all can do to stop me"

RLM #68

You said "It ain't gonna' get better, folks."

Polls are showing that the people favor democrats taking over majority party status in congress in November. It is by average about 47% to 33% and growing (link here).

However, the way congressional districts are drawn (link to your district map here) raises the very serious spectre that gerrymandering may thwart the will of the people.

The way districts are drawn can change everything (link here).

On Hardball With Chris Matthews(MSNBC) yesterday (4/18/06), a reporter stated that on a district by district basis, polls show that republicans would hold the majority.

In other words, the design of the districts is such that it thwarts and is contrary to the will of the people at large.

The map link above shows how true this is. Look at the 25th and 28th districts of Texas, Tom DeLay constructs, to see what I mean.

We have a dictatorial situation anytime the will of the people is thwarted by its government. There is no other name for it. Some dictatorships are less vile than others, but calling a spade a spade is what I am talking about.

We have a dictatorship if the people cannot express their will by their vote. If the government allows us to vote but that vote is meaningless, the fact is that it is a dictatorship because the people cannot change the government.

The Texas gerrymandering case has been put on the fast track by the US Supreme Court (link here).

This is unusual under normal circumstances, but is all the more unusual since the cases have been stalled and have therefore been on the slow track in the US Supreme Court until now.

The case it now seems that will be reversed is Henderson v Perry (link here).

The issue of gerrymandering is equal to the problem with voting machines. Because even if we perfect the voting machines, the gerrymandering issue is just as much a threat.

Both evils ... gerrymandering and fraudulent and junky electronic voting machines ... are destroying American democracy.

And if the judicial goes down the tubes too (link here), and does not stop gerrymandering, I am sorry to say that democracy will be gone from American soil for a long time.

RLM #68

You said "It ain't gonna' get better, folks."

Polls are showing that the people favor democrats taking over majority party status in congress in November. It is by average about 47% to 33% and growing (link here).

However, the way congressional districts are drawn (link to your district map here) raises the very serious spectre that gerrymandering may thwart the will of the people.

The way districts are drawn can change everything (link here).

On Hardball With Chris Matthews(MSNBC) yesterday (4/18/06), a reporter stated that on a district by district basis, polls show that republicans would hold the majority.

In other words, the design of the districts is such that it thwarts and is contrary to the will of the people at large.

The map link above shows how true this is. Look at the 25th and 28th districts of Texas, Tom DeLay constructs, to see what I mean.

We have a dictatorial situation anytime the will of the people is thwarted by its government. There is no other name for it. Some dictatorships are less vile than others, but calling a spade a spade is what I am talking about.

We have a dictatorship if the people cannot express their will by their vote. If the government allows us to vote but that vote is meaningless, the fact is that it is a dictatorship because the people cannot change the government.

The Texas gerrymandering case has been put on the fast track by the US Supreme Court (link here).

This is unusual under normal circumstances, but is all the more unusual since the cases have been stalled and have therefore been on the slow track in the US Supreme Court until now.

The case it now seems that will be reversed is Henderson v Perry (link here).

The issue of gerrymandering is equal to the problem with voting machines. Because even if we perfect the voting machines, the gerrymandering issue is just as much a threat.

Both evils ... gerrymandering and fraudulent and junky electronic voting machines ... are destroying American democracy.

And if the judicial goes down the tubes too (link here), and does not stop gerrymandering, I am sorry to say that democracy will be gone from American soil for a long time.

RLM,

You are correct. As I wrote in 2005, each year of the BCFOL will be worse than the one before it. The best we liberal moonbats can do is to keep exposing the scandals, lies and idiocies to complicate their lives and minimize the damage.

Mike J.

Here's a famous quote that will answer every assertion you've ever made here on BradBlog:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

PeeWee Herman

KestrelBrighteyes #67

You should hear the things my 13 & 14 year old kids have to say about Bush. I have not in any way swayed them in their opinions beyond agreeing with them when they express them. They are opinions they have formed on their own from what they see going on around them.

Bush's comments are sadly comical.
However, Rumsfeld's comments "just beat all" as Andy Griffith used to say.
Get out your pencils & write this down everyone--

Donald Rumsfeld actually said, "Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."

Plato had this to say about it all;

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

BlueBear 2 #63

I know.

You really give some good links for us.
Thanks.

Charlene

Thank you, and you're welcome.

"I understand how exit polls work, but you guys have had 17 months since the 2004 election to prove wrongdoing. Hasn't happened. No legal challenge on the national level has made it up the chain. It's a dead issue."

So the current convictions for the 2004 Ohio crap mean nothing? The convictions for phone jamming in 2002 mean nothing and don't show that Repukes DO engage in ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES to secure elections? and then the guy UNDER INVESTIGATION WITH CHARGES FILED ends up being on Shrubby's 2004 campaign and his legal defense paid for by Repuke campaign money? So the stopping of the counting in 2000 and giving the case to the courts isn't a point of concerne for you? you don't mind not actually counting votes in a recount?

Your positions don't hold ANY water once you start reading up on the FACTS. Yet, you keep deluding yourself into believing the kool-aid soaked drivle coming from right-wing-nut-whack-job sites. Congrats.

I also have a degree in Comp. Sci. Took the same courses you did, I'm sure.. I also took a lot of "non-science" courses to expand my brain and outlook, and learned a lot af things about the world. I, too, was in the military.. Active and Reserves, SeaBees.. Reserves in Wisconsin, active in NMCB7 out of Golfport MS. I have a brother with 19 years in the reserves, discharged after he got back from Iraq with a broken vertibrae in his neck, and now the Government won't fix it (remember how FuckStick and his Repug Congress REDUCED FUNDING FOR THE TROOPS THEY ARE INJURING?). He was discharged intstead of being retired, and he can't get decent medical treatment for his broken neck that he got fighting for this country.

Forgive me if I tell you to fuck off for having the shittiest logic of any Software person I've ever met, and for thinking it's ok to shit on our troops (the ones that survive) when they sacrifice for "honor and duty and service". You're a fucking moron, and the exact problem with the world.

Have a shitty day (you've earned it).

"# how about letting a CEO make a decision based on all the facts available at the time.
# for the death penalty but against abortion. The difference is that someone convicted of death penalty is guilty of murder (vast majority), but an unbord baby is innocent of anything, yet you want a choice to kill that baby. Yes, it's a baby not a "fetus". Heartbeat at 3 weeks, brainwave activity at 6 weeks. Think about that."

Fist, CEO's descisions are about "how to maximize profits".. the "facts" that people lose jobs, homes, families, lives are not entered into the equasion. Companies are psychopathic in their persuits of profits, studies have been done and show it over and over again. All you have to do is stop and think about it.. and answer this question if you can't get your head around it.. "why does a company leading the industry and making RECORD PROFITS have to 'shut down factories' to 'be competitive' " ? See, it's not about "running a company", it's about maximizing profits and getting people to pay attention to you in the stock market.. a system wich will destroy all corporations in the U.S. as more and more people try to get money for free from the market. It's another filter to get money from "the masses" and "to the upper 2%".

Your "heart beat at 3 wks" is crap, I"ve done the research on some other sites where this was a topic of discussion. I used to be of the mind that until 8 wks, there was no significant development of internal organs in a fetus (not baby). I have had to revise that frame of reference based on "new advances in equipment" which can now register some organ activity as early as 7 wks. Still, you don't account for the LIFETIME of misery and hardship that is possible for that 'potential person', who would die (if you to go so far as pretend that a fetus has a 'soul', if those even exist, and that stopping the biology 'kills' the soul, even before there is brain capacity to allow for autonomic activities) in an instant, never knowing pain or saddness or happiness or .. well, ANYTHING. It would just be a snuffing of a biological process. Your desire to attribute more to it, or liken it to a "human being with decades of expierences who chose to do something horrible" is YOUR problem. Abortion, under various circumstances, is much like euthanasia, and not a descision for the STATE, but for the INDIVIDUAL.

Also, do you then, given YOUR timeline of (the bullshit assertion) of 3 wks till heart beat, think the 'morning after pill' should be available over the counter to adults? I mean, if you prevent the egg from attaching to the uterine wall (or let go within a day or two), certianly there's no "heart beat", or anything ELSE resembling a human, at that point.. right? So you support allowing women to chose to avoid the pregnancy all together? Or do you figure, if you're raped or the condom breaks, fuck you.. raise that kid! ? hmm?

For everyone's information Bush drove Texas into deficit from a surplus. This per our present, Republican governor.

Bush supporters need to look at where we are versus where we were 5 years ago. It is not a personal attack against a political party. America is sinking in debt, turmoil and terrible standing in the world. The State Department is issuing instructions to overseas travelers on attitude because we are so hated !

We all just want a leader with credibility, someone we can trust, but every crisis has let us sink further and further down. Bush will not or doesn't know what to do to improve this downhill trend. That is why we are upset.

Hey Savantster,

I certainly don't agree at all with the way your brother is being treated. He certainly should be taken care of and allowed to retire. That is just terrible. But is that my fault? No. The VA hospital system is at fault. Don't make sweeping generalizations! Go after the very person and place that denied your brother the treatment! If you want me to write my Congressman on his behalf, then I will.

I thank him for serving his country in a time of war. I thank you too. I know that SeeBee base in Gulfport at Canal Rd.

If you want to take your hurt and respond like an asshole, then that is your choice. But you are wrong when you say I shit on the troops. I appreciate their service far more than your liberal friends do.

Ever heard of the "Wounded Warrior" project? I have given them a large donation and I plan to give more next month.

When we signed the papers to enlist in the military, we knew full well that our life was then owned by the military and the government for the years of our enlistment. We also knew that we may get severely injured or killed. One of my friends was on the USS Iwo Jima (previous ship named that) when the boiler accident happened that killed 12 men. My friend's job was in that room. He would have been killled if had happened on his shift. The ones that were killed were his friends.

War is terrible. No doubt about that. What do you think the parents of the FIVE Sullivan brothers thought about WWII and Pres.Roosevelt when their ship, the USS Juneau (CL-52) was lost. All five brothers were killed. But did their parents start on a rampage of hate against Roosevelt? No, in fact their last surviving child, a daughter, then joined the Navy Reserves and worked at recruiter duty. The parents also toured manufacturing plants and shipyards to encourage workers to "work harder to produce the weaponds for the Navy so that the war may come to an end sooner." (Naval Historical Center website)

This was the same battle, the Night Naval Battle of Guadalcanal on 13 November 1942, in which my father's ancestor was killed while serving onboard the USS San Francisco (CA-38).

Ok, I will forgive you because I think your hateful words are coming from your hurt. I've had that said to me when I was in the military and I've said that to other people as well. But that does not make it right. Neither does your hurt about your brother give you the right to say that to me just because I disagree with you.

You say, "Your positions don't hold ANY water once you start reading up on the FACTS."

Do you really think that your positions are helped by your foul language? If you can't argue position without resorting to name-calling and profanity, then maybe is because you don't one of two things:
a good positions of logic and facts
or
self control

Maybe you have good positions. Please provide me with a story on the Ohio situation and I'll read it.

In the meantime, and .

You appear to be one of those "Alec Baldwin" liberals. Do you also get a nosebleed when you scream and yell your drivel of hate?

Description on MRC
Wikipedia on Baldwin, see Politics section

I have to go now, but I'll post more here later.

Scotty jumped ship.

Mike J

The exit polls were not wrong. The DNA tests that implicated O.J. Simpson were not wrong. Mathematical probabilities are real. Neocons, even those who program computers, pretend to disbelieve science when convenient.

Bush is the leader of your cult. When will you drink the kool-aid?

Bush "The Decider"

#53 - me --- As long as I'm coining words, I think I prefer "Smugatopia" to "Smugatonia"

#83,
What the heck are you talking about? "pretend to disbelieve science when convenient."

Actually I understand why you people believe that the e-voting machines can be tampered with. I agree that for fair elections to occur, the machines have to be tamper-proof. That's why I want them to have that paper receipt just like the newer gas pumps have. I don't drive away from the pump until I have that receipt. If the printer doesn't produce it, then I go inside. I am a computer programmer, but in our system that receipt is my proof that I paid before some employee mistakenly thinks I didn't and calls the police.

Computer records can be changed or erased. So for you liberals who like to assume that I disagree with that voter machine issue of yours, you are wrong about me. I certainly think it's possible.

Yet the 2000 & 2004 elections that you keep whining about have not yet proven what you want. Maybe someday.

Savantster #79,
You misunderstood my comment about, " how about letting a CEO make a decision based on all the facts available at the time."

Ha, I was actually on topic with that one. I was referring to any president or governor or mayor who essentially is the CEO of that country or state or city.

Pres.Bush made decisions based on the available data at the time, in my opinion. If you want to believe otherwise then fine. It's your opinion. Second-guessing a President's decisions is easy. Allowing him to make the decisions with more data than you & I have access to is hard for you, isn't it? Well I trust him & you don't.

There are 2 ways for the anti-abortion / pro-choice debate. (Yes, I know what some of you liberals will say about those words.)

One way is from the scientific viewpoint and the other is from the spiritual religious viewpoint.

I have heard all along that the science has determined that the heartbeat begins at 3 weeks and that the brainwaves begin at 6 weeks. If you don't believe that, fine, but you have a problem with being rude towards disagreement. Show me your evidence instead of being immature.

The religious aspect is simple. God created us in his own image. God loves us all (even you). He knows us before we are born. I believe that he also has our spirit in that baby (or fetus as you prefer) from the moment of conception.

I don't believe in euthanasia. I believe that life is precious from conception to natural death. So I can't believe that it's ok to kill the unborn baby no matter when.

But law is different from spiritual belief. The law is made for everyone regardless of their beliefs or lack of. I don't like any abortion, but unlike some religious conservatives, I don't think that the law should make all abortions illegal. It would forced upon non-religious women as well who don't share that belief.

Now that I surprised you with that, I'll go back to the expected. I don't believe that abortion should be used as birth control. I think that engaging in sexual behavior without trying to have a baby is talking at risk of an unwanted pregnancy. So take the risk! But you gamble. You lose and I think there is a moral obligation to have the child. But again, that's not the law nor should it be. I just wish that we were a more moral people.

Well, even though I have agreed with some of your liberal beliefs, I still expect rude behavior to come my way just because I disagree. I've said here before that I'm mostly Republican, but once in a while I'll see a Democrat that I agree with.

Mike J

I agree with you on the need for a paper trail. I disagree with you about the accuracy of exit polls.

"Well, even though I have agreed with some of your liberal beliefs, I still expect rude behavior to come my way just because I disagree."

It's not that you disagree, it's that your opinions in the matter (for the ones that are in contest) tend to be -despite the facts-, yet you insist that not to be the case. Read BradBlog about the voting problems in 2004 (as opposed to the kool-aid sites that say it was just a few retarded Dems that couldn't figure out how to click the screen). Convictions in Ohio, indictments in Ohio, lawsuits in Ohio and many other states.. Hell, there's several stories in the past 2 wks about the phone jamming thing from 2002, and the CONVICTIONS OF REPUBLICANS in the mess.

I had a lot more, but windows ate it on one click.. fun.. Anyway, I'm done with you Mike J. You almost seem like you could be saved yet, but you insist on drinking the kool-aid about all kinds of stuff. Like saying "Pres.Bush made decisions based on the available data at the time, in my opinion." .. fine.. in YOUR OPINION, yet the FACTS show a different story.. one that PROVES he KNEW the Niger story was pretty much fake, but he didn't care (nor do you).. He KNEW most of the "intel" was "not likely", and he KNEW they had an intel stream from Chalibi who he SHOULD have known had alterior motives to get into Iraq. The problem with people like you is, you discount the facts that are inconvienent and as someone said, dismiss science when it suits you. The exit polls are used WORLD WIDE, but discounted here when they weren't what those in power wanted to hear. In OTHER countries, there is rioting in the streets, here there was an eary silence. The "official" excuses don't hold up to true scrutiny, yet people (like you) still believe it was a polling error, for the first (and only since) time in the history of exit polling. Strange, isn't it?

Mike J:

Why don't you go to blackboxvoting.org and educate yourself on the security of e-vote machines? Go there, read a few articles, and then tell us what you think.

Mike J.
You don't have the minimal mental power required to follow an idea out to it's logical conclusion--that's why it's impossible to discuss anything with you.
In fact, Mike J., if luck had given you more mental power, you wouldn't be in support of Bush.
That's the truth.

Exhibit A:
You claim to be pro-life, yet you are in favor of the death penalty--"because they are guilty of murder & a baby is innocent."
The "Right to Life" position, BY DEFINITION, means that ALL life is respected.
No pick & choose, no judgements on who is worthy & who isn't.
ALL life. Period.

No. Do not answer right away.
Put on your thinking cap & mull it over real good.
Did you? Good.
Now think about it some more....

Charlene,
If you want to be condesending, do it with your husband (if you have one), not with me.

You call me a "troll", yet you say I'm being childish. See, I thought that name-calling was childish. I guess you'll tell me I'm wrong about that too......

That's the biggest problem I have with you liberals. You can't argue without restorting to insults and personal attacks. You behave like the kids in the schoolyard do. You have the immaturity of a 10-year-old. However, you can do better if you want to. You don't have to be insulting. You can, if you want to, present your opinions and the facts as you know them without the insults.

It's like watching Eddie Murphy on stage. I would much rather watch Bill Cosby instead. Cosby gives his audience great humor, acting, and a basic good time without using the foul language that Eddie Murphy uses. But if you want to be Murphy instead of Cosby, that is your choice for your behavior.

The real problem that causes you difficulty in discussing things with me is because I make you defend your positions. If you can't stand to have your precious liberal opinions questioned, then you need not participate in these types of forums.

In fact, Charlene, if luck had given you more moral courage, you would know this already.

So, does this mean that you are against abortion? See, a lot of liberals are for abortion yet against the death penalty, which is just the opposite of my opinion.

Before you attack me again on that issue, YOU should think before you jump:

If you are going to pounce on me for being supportive of unborn babies AND not supportive of a murderer's right to life, then you should be consistent. Tell me if there is any person worldwide throughout history that you think deserved the death penalty. None? Ever?
-OR-
If you do not support abortion and you do not support the death penalty (your pro-life definition), then be consistent by telling your liberal friends how they are wrong on supporting abortion AND tell me why you favor keeping murderers locked up forever and all of us paying for that cost.

Which is it Charlene?
Pro-Life all the way (not allowing abortion or death-penalty)
Pro-Choice all the way (allowing abortion and a judge/jury choosing which murderers get the death-penalty)
Pro-Abortion and Anti-Death Penalty (kill the innocent and protect the guity)
Pro-Choice and Pro-Death Penalty (protect the innocent and execute the guilty)

Your turn to think. Think about it real hard. Then pick one and let us know.

For the record, I never used the term, "Pro-Life", in my earlier statements. You assumed that, didn't you? Yet I doubt you have the courage to admit that here.

If you can't pick one of those four positions, then slink down in your chair and realize that it's easy to criticize but hard to "follow and idea out to it's logical conclusion".

I hope that you can be logical and respectful, even if you disagree with me. Most can't, as I found out here.

I thought that I was being somewhat conciliatory in stating that making abortion illegal would force it on non-religious women. But do I get any agreement on that from you liberals? No!

Have a nice day!

Pro-Choice and Anti-Death Penalty for me.

I don't know anyone (except maybe Bill Bennett) who is pro-abortion.

Truth Seeker,

Bill Bennett?

I was just about to repy to you for #88, but I was delayed. Thanks for a good response. I understand your position on that. I'm sure we can disagree w/o insults instead of like how Charlene & Savantster operate.

My question is then: Has the Voter News Service been investigated for its perceived oversight?

Also, what do you think Sen.Kerry should have done? Contested the election like VP Al Gore Jr. did? Many wanted him to, I'm sure.

Cheers!

Savantster,
First I'll help you & others with this board's posting problem. I lost one comment last week, so what I do every time is highlight all my text & save it before I click "Preview". Sometimes when I go back to edit the text field is blank. So I do right-click & "Select All" (or Ctrl-A), then right-click "Copy" (or Ctrl-C). If the text is gone when you go back, you can easily paste it back with right-click & "Paste" (or Ctrl-V).

This has saved me from loosing my comments many times that the board has lost my text.

Hope this helps everyone!

Savantster,
Ok, If you want to be done with me, then that's your choice. This is after I offered to help your brother & acknowledged that he is being treated very unfairly.

But let me ask you:

DO YOU WANT RIOTS IN THE STREETS AFTER ELECTIONS ?

Not having riots over elections is what makes America better than other countries.

More later after I give my 2-year-old his bath. Family is more important than politics. I'm sure you agree.

Cheers!

yes

Mike J: Did you, or did you not, go to blackboxvoting.org ??????

Dan,
I just looked at it now. I read the beginning of the 4-5-06 transcript. It's so long I did not read the whole thing, only about 1/4th, then I went down and read the comments.
I also read a bit elsewhere and I'll read more later when I have more time.....
Sound like a lot of people have invested a lot of time and a lot of money to prove that one type of electronic voting machine is able to be hacked. But the motivation behind the people could be taken more than one way. Free and fair elections, YES! We want that for sure!
I did notice that BBV is not supporting the paper trail receipt. They state why, but when I have more time I'll read more.

OK, Dan?

Later!

Mike J

I think Kerry should have requested a recount in Ohio. However, I am sure that he realized that the deck was stacked against him. Lawsuits regarding voting machine fraud take so long to resolve and the election cycle will not wait.

Mike J.

You didn't do it.
You didn't think.
That was my point.
You didn't consider the absurd inconsistency of your position, which requires MINIMAL logic, not high intelligence.
You may have a great personality or some other nice quality, but brain power is not your strong suit, Mike.
I believe you also lack the moral courage to look at yourself honestly.
That's the truth.

Hey, brain power is mostly the luck of getting good genes.
You can't help it if you weren't lucky.
What you CAN help is saving everyone the tedious ordeal of dealing with your 60 watt view of the world when ours is 150 watts.
We can just see more.

Have a nice day, but do it somewhere else.

Mike J.

P.S.

If you bother to answer, which I hope you will not, please do not work Queen Latifah into your response.

"What are you smokin'?"

"How can you be so clueless??"

"then you and your liberal friends would have no problem with what he said and how he said it. But since you hate Pres.Bush so much, you can't see reason."

"You truly are a low-life jerk of an idiot who wants to see things that are not true."

"Savanster: crazy wacko"

"Do you also get a nosebleed when you scream and yell your drivel of hate?"

"Those morons in Palm Beach county that were yelling "RE-Vote" because they were too stupid the first time are the ones who make you people look stupid."

"I've told you wackos before..."

"You may think in your smug liberal mind"

"Later, shelple! (sic)"

"You got a problem with freedom of speech? OH, yea, I forgot. It's ok only if the speech agrees with your liberal agenda."

"Your liberal friends here type the craziest of things with no proof or "verifiable facts". "

"As usual for liberals you misunderstand."

"That's the biggest problem I have with you liberals. You can't argue without restorting to insults and personal attacks."

Funny.. you keep tossing out blatant and veiled insults (make no mistake, we know how your kind likes to use "liberal" as a dirty word, and you've been true to your beliefes with it) and talk about how people shouldn't do it. The only difference I see is, I have the balls to make sure you know you're being insulted instead of hiding behind deniability. Conviction.. I supposes that's the difference.

And please don't try to "educated" me about using the windows clipboard, ok? I write code for a living, I use computers for 12+ hours a day.. I think I get how to use copy/paste. The eating of my post was by, apparently, hitting the control and shift keys at the same time, then hitting the up arrow or something. The entire post was "selected" (not with ctl+a which is the normal way to select all) and changed to some non-printable character. In other words, missing a key stroke in windows can delete an entire document.. not a very good OS if you ask me, but then, what do I know.. I just program computers for a living.

"I'm sure we can disagree w/o insults instead of like how Charlene & Savantster operate."

Just putting that in is trying to be inflamitory, and you know it.

What I find most bothersome about you is your pretending to have "informed opinions", yet it's clear to us here that have the facts that you do NOT. Yet, you're content to attack and belittle people and accuse them of not having proof, and when you're on a site WITH THE PROOF to boot. BBV.org has stuff, BradBlog has stuff (about the phone jamming, convictions around the 2004 Ohio crap, indictments in Ohio, etc etc).. and you still say "we don't have proof", and that "liberals have opinions not based in fact".

The FACT is, you're wrong. The SHAME is, you don't go get the facts, you just spin and spin and spin. The sign of a closed mind is one that refuses to listen to fact and adjust their position. I've admitted I was wrong about things in the past, and I've changed my opinions based on new information. I don't see that coming from you (or most Republicans, or in fact, most adults). I see you tossing veiled insults while pretending to be above it all. You keep changing the topic to avoid discussing the facts you can't refute.. al. in true form for a pug.

You want to help my brother (and those like him)? Stop voting Republican and start voting for parties that actually give a shit about PEOPLE as opposed to coporations. Republican leadership is the most corrupt of our species in this country, they keep being indicted and convicted of SERIOUS crimes, all the while professing to be "god fearing men".. a lie they spew to keep the masses off guard, and to win support of the typical Christian (who can't seem to think for them selves).

I'm done with you because you can't be bothered to get some facts before blathering your talking points here. You have backed up to the point of saying "stop being insutling! stop acting childish! stop calling me names! that's all you -liberals- *in a dirty word tone* can DO!".. yet you aren't addressing the points.

You claimed Shrubby "earned him MBA" (and proceeded to talk badly about a Dem for no good reason), yet , when we look at our "leader" speak, his language IS that of a child. "I'm the decider"?? Yeah, we're being childish and displaying the "immature as a 10 year old" (sic) maturaty, but we're venting in this thread, right? And, when you "MBA holding pResident" talks like some dumb hick, I think being criticial is warrented. His language sucks, his ability to debate sucks, there's nothing I've seen of this man that warrents respect, but you can only say "you're being childish".. YES, we are.. and we have that right.. and we have that freedom, for now. What's wrong with venting in a childish manner on occasion? Oh.. right.. I forget.. you're a straight-laced god fearing man now, and "being proper" is all that you see as your existence now.

Perhaps that's the TRUE difference between Liberals and Conservatives.. Liberals want to live life and enjoy it, Conservatives want to live in a very narrow and rigid line so they can be saved by some superstitious being that never reveals him/her/it's self to anyone (except religious leaders, some of whom are child molesters).

you want facts to back up the assertion that the 2004 elections were fraught with "problems", then read BBV and Brad Blog. What's telling though, is that you're ON Brad Blog and don't seem to have any idea what the "main premise" is of the blog entries over the past year or so. Nothing anyone can say will change the typical neo-con shill. If you're an appologist for the Admin, you're wasting your time here. If you really want to learn more, keep reading the blog (and read the pertinent entries).

If you want to LEARN about Sept. 11, 2001 and the WTC and Pentagon, go read some of the sites that show how the "official story" CAN NOT HAVE HAPPENED.. then come back and explain to those who have critical thinking skills that "everything is fine". Explain to us how an entire 757 folds in on it's self and fits into a 16 foot hole at the Pentagon, never leaving another mark on the outside.. it just magically transmuted into the building (according to one site I looked at). Explain how Physics was suspended on that date to allow the towers to fall 2 seconds faster than possible (for the pancake theory), and explain how we have fatigued steel from temps you get with jet fuel (again, physics says the offical story is bullshit).. Explain how tower 7 fell when it wasn't hit, and sustained LESS DAMAGE than buildings around it (the offical story doesn't even take that building into account... that doesnt' bother you?).

The information is out there. The fact that you don't want to go get it, and would rather poke your finger in people's faces and say "you are a name caller! you are immature!" tells a lot about you. None of it good to the descerning mind.

Truth Seeker,

Thanks for answering one of my questions.

Perhaps then Sen.Kerry should have asked for a recount of Ohio. We would have that resolved. However, he wanted a chance to try again. I don't think that VP Al Gore Jr. will be given a chance again because of his continued recount lawsuits and how the whole debacle was perceived. This time around, Sen.Kerry has to beat Sen.Hillary, but at least he will get a chance.

Since you have taken the time to read about the exit polling issue, I also asked if the Voter News Service has been investigated. If so, who did that and where are their official findings? Point me to that and I'll read it.

"Perhaps then Sen.Kerry should have asked for a recount of Ohio."

There are also indictments in Ohio for manipulating the "random sample" to determine if recounts needed to be done. In other words, the Electoral board in Ohio made SURE they didn't have any "too close so we need an automatic recount" entries in their data. The report was here on Brad Blog.. I'm sure you can find it.

In other words, Kerry could have demanded a recount in Ohio.. He would have had to pay to have the computer operators "push the button", wich does nothing of value to "proving the vote", or "recounting in any significant form".. And the state made sure they "randomly sampled" districts that they "knew the counts were good on" to avoid the state funded automatic recount.

Without paper, recounts are useless too. And your "paper receipt" is equally useless since most states don't allow for any counting of any paper when they have these machines.. and what you see on paper is no guarentee of what was tallied in the machine's memory.

Ohio (and several other states) were a total joke in the 2004 elections, even the GAO report says so (that's the Government Accountablity Office.. your own GOVERNMENT said the elections in 2004 were screwed up.. but Faux News doesn't cover that, and O'Liely wouldn't tell you about it even if he knew about it.. )

Charlene,

I knew that one of you would get to the point eventually of telling me to go away. I'm not suprised to see that from you.

Yesterday I went back to the weirdo Patrick postcard post and read your response. Here is my response to you. I think you will like it.

You gave an typical response on this thread above.

While all answers are responses, not all responses are answers.

You did not answer my question. Instead you continued your insults. You could have done better. Instead you continued your ways. I asked you to do better. Instead you continue to deny that another person's opinion is just as valid as your opinion is. Must be something to do with your personallity that likes to attack people because you disagree with them.

So we'll try again....

Who in history deserved or should have received an execution? Anybody or Nobody?

Which is it Charlene?
Pro-Life all the way (not allowing abortion or death-penalty)
Pro-Choice all the way (allowing abortion and a judge/jury choosing which murderers get the death-penalty)
Pro-Abortion and Anti-Death Penalty (kill the innocent and protect the guity)
Pro-Choice and Pro-Death Penalty (protect the innocent and execute the guilty)

I choose #4 simply because the unborn are innocent and the murderers are guilty. Why don't YOU pay for the housing, security, and health care for life-time prisoners out of your pocket? Instead everyone pays. Conservatives are generous with our money to the causes that we support. Liberals are generous with every else's money.

Yes, I understand there are some who don't want to judge a man guilty and sentence him to death because you feel that is for God to decide. Ok, but we should arrange the meeting between the murderer and God himself.

Your system of no-death-penalty has NO end in sight. Lower the standards and the deterrent exists. I know that anti-death people think that it's not a deterrent. I think that if used more often and quicker, it would be. No 1st degree and 2nd degree murder. Just murder with 5 year appeals on conviction then if no change then execution. Painful. Electric chair. Firing squad. Gas chamber. There's the deterrent! Shocked?

Truth Seeker gave me an answer. How come you can't?

Perhaps it's because you don't want your liberal friends to know that you are against abortion? If not, then please answer the question.

Perhaps there are a few people in history that you really think deserved execution. Yet you don't want to admit it here. Ok, then say so.

You did not acknowledge that I never said I was "Pro-Life". Well, folks, I didn't. She assumed that.

I understand that some will take exception with #4 above, but that's my opinion. How come you can't respect that? You said that you still believe in God, but not in the men of the Church. Ok, fine with me. But do you think that God likes all these unborn babies being killed? I would NOT stop it by law. I would try to change behavior.

I admit that I don't understand the "Queen Latifah" reference because I don't listen to her music. So why don't you spell it out for me with your self-perceived 150 watt brain? You have the talent to work some more insults in there too. It's a talent that suits you well.

I'll make your ordeal last longer. :rolleyes:

Next!

Mike J: Did you see where they hacked into an e-vote machine in front of election officials, changed the vote, and got out without a trace??? Right in front of officials? Isn't this enough to ban the machines?

Mike J: You have to keep in mind a few things about recent election fraud on e-vote machines.

Never before have the exit polls, twice (2000 & 2004) said one clear winner for president, and the "machines" said another...and no investigation to boot, and GOP donors MAKE the e-vote machines.

No one objected with claims of fraud when Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, etc... all the way back to JFK, won their elections, so you can't say "liberals always cry foul when they lose."

In fact, if the exit polls matched the "count on the machines", no one would be saying anything.

100% of discrepancies on e-vote machines favor one party, the Repubicans. THAT...is not "random".

Nearly 100% of voter's complaints and charges were of people not voting for Bush.

Whenever there was a shortage of voting machines, it was in a Democrat district.

One word to the wise: If you are for fair voting, you would join us. I hope you're not a hypocrite, and when, in the future Dems may hack the vote, THEN you'll cry for fair voting.

Did you cry "foul" when JFK supposedly stole the election in Chicago? Or did you say, "that was OK, even though I'm not a Democrat."

There is a mentality among wingnuts: Party before country, corruption is OK if a Republican is doing it...etc...

That is why wingnuts cannot be taken seriously in a debate. They reek with hypocrisy and have no logic and no rules in a debate. They don't talk about facts that obviously cannot be disputed, like GW's 33% approval rating.

What do you think of GW's 33% approval rating? Or, "no comment"?

Also, Mike J, does God like all the people being killed in Iraq? More rightwing hypocrisy (maybe not from YOU), but rightwingers who are against abortion and FOR the war, again, is a contradiction. Or, also for the death penalty. Like I stated above, a wingnut on HBO said he's for the death penalty, and it's liberal spin that about 121 innocent people have died. He said it was more like 40. Do you see why we hate wingnuts? What about the 40???

"Only 2,500 Americans died in Iraq...tens of thousands died in Vietnam!!!"

...what about the 2,500???

"I'm the decider....GOO GOO GA JOOB!!!"

We need one of our "librul" music genius's to do a take-off of "I Am The Walrus" by the Beatles, but put "I'm The Decider...GOO GOO GA JOOB!" I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Someone do this, I don't have the time, and I won't sue for thinking of the idea.

Mike J at #107, you're losing it.. Go check your #4.. you said you are "anti-abortion" earlier, now you say you are "pro-choice".. I call bullshit The reason people associated you to "pro-life" is you put "anti-abortion/pro-choice" in a post.. I think the general concensus (sp) is that, leaving all the "word games" out, you are either "pro-chioce" or "pro-life".. In that, either you believe it's up to the individual and not the state, or you believe the state should outlaw abortions all together (with possible rare exceptions). Your word games are pretty silly.

-I- am pro-choice.. in that the WOMAN get's to chose instead of the state. I am not, however, "pro-abortion" (what the hell does that even mean?). No one that I have EVER met thought "abortion is a valid form of birth control", but I hear you wing-nuts talking about it all the time.. strange... I've met several people that had abortions, and NOT ONE considered it "birth control", but instead, a very tough descision they made for the greater good as they saw it. I also have never met ANYONE that thought "abortion is good", or that it was some kind of trivial act... yet, the "pro-life/anti-abortion" camps like to spin it that way.. if you can't win on the merrits, you put strong emotional associations out there to try and hedge your bets.

First, your "innocent" decry requires some kind of acceptance that "life is sacred" (or, at least, it's something you made parallels to). Personally, I hold ALL life in the SAME regard and I do NOT think humans are "better" than any other living thing. Therefore, since I don't mind killing for food, and understand the need for population control of animals in certian situtations, I have no problem with the killing of humans either... provided the situation can be reasonably justified and there is no undue suffering. Well, that's not entirely true.. I have no problem with the torturing to death of a criminal who has comitted a heinous crime.. let his victims survivers rip him to bits if they want to.. But we have "practicle problems" that causes me to feel we shouldn't allow it as a society.. Personal feelings don't have to dictate rational policy (not that wing-nuts and religious fanatics understand that). It's how I accept euthenasia.. and I use projection in that when I'm suffering endlessly, I see no point in being alive anymore.. to me, the POINT of living is to enjoy life, not simply exist. Having a hear beat while being in intense pain and misery makes no sense to me, it's illogical (until you bring 'faith' and 'sin' into it.. which isn't supported in logic anyway).

"Why don't YOU pay for the housing, security, and health care for life-time prisoners unwanted babies out of your pocket?"

Mike J.

You DID say you're Catholic & you DID say you "respect life".
The Catholic Church teaches respect for life which includes ALL life---they teach the death penalty is wrong & so are immoral wars, in which thousands have died needlessly. The Pope long ago declared Bush's Iraq war to be immoral.

How do you square all that?

I asked you not to work Queen Latifah into your response because in #92, you somehow used Eddie Murphy & Bill Cosby when you tried to refute my claim that you're a 60 watt in a 150 watt world.

Smooth, buddy......

Hey Dan,
Except for an occasional "scum" or "wingnut" you are doing somewhat ok on the rapport. Don't ruin it. I am trying here, ok?

Death penalty
I think that I posted earlier (if not here on another thread maybe) that the person you saw on HBO does not speak for me. I don't want ANYBODY to be executed for a crime that they did not commit! Do you understand that about me? I hope so.

People die in car accidents all the time, but do we stop driving cars? People die from medical mistakes in surgery, but do we stop having surgeries?

If you take away the death-penalty (as some states have done) then you remove a big deterrent. Yes, I think it IS a deterrent if used right.

Next...
The voter machine issue
I am a computer programer and have been for 10 years post-graduation. I don't play computer games in my spare time, like some programers. I used to when I was younger, but not for quite a while.

Republican bias in voting machines? Well, this may help: This thing of Republican or Democrat elected election officials, I would change that to non-partisian elected position for 2 years. I don't think appointed position will work because who makes the appointment? An elected official does and usually a member of a party.

I agreed with Dredd on that issue but he proceeded to attack me personally anyway.

Since I work with computers, handheld devices like PDA's and digital cameras, mainframe systems, database programs, etc. then I understand how a machine can be hacked by various methods like the memory card for instance.

What I don't understand is physical security of the voting machine. I would have armed guards watching over the precinct central computer. When polls close, the precinct central computer would run the tabulation program and use internet access to send the precinct's data to the county courthouse computers. Then the precinct central computer will still be transported under guard to the official county location. The data would be transmitted for fast poll results, but still need the database to be brought to a secure location.

On a total paper ballot counting system, you have to trust the counters. Canvassing boards, whatever you call them. Get rid of party affliation.

Since you have to trust paper ballot counters, you also have to make a good e-voting system proven to be fair from the start. If the machines are guarded they can't be hacked at the precinct location. Again, the armed guards have to be trusted too.

I will read more on that BBV site. But I will also look elsewhere when I have time.

HEY Mike J.....All posts, Wow you sure are a Blog Hog, Don't you get it? The people here have been studying and dissecting this issue since 11-02-04, They Know of what they speak. Your posts make no sense at all, so now I just skip over them because to me they are worthless. Sooo have a nice day.

"Since you have to trust paper ballot counters, you also have to make a good e-voting system proven to be fair from the start. If the machines are guarded they can't be hacked at the precinct location. Again, the armed guards have to be trusted too."

First, you don't have to "trust the counters" if it's all done ON CAMERA, ON TV, and OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.. so that anyone and everyone can sit and watch the couting if they want to. In a "machine", as you are aware, NO ONE can see what's going on.. and, at present, the source code (which is ONE avenue for hanky-panky) is locked up.

As for "armed guards".. what about the IR ports on these machines? What about palming out a memory card? Let's pretend for a minute that "people are good" and no one would "cheat".. what about all the MACHINE FAILURES?

Again, you're saying there was no hanky-panky with 2000 and 2004, yet you don't have the slightest clue what cases are in front of the COURTS NOW.. Amazing..

Still, the underlying point of THIS THREAD is, your MBA weilding moron (who did NOT earn it, he BOUGHT it.. cause if HE can get an MBA, those are pretty worthless dgrees.. but since his money kept him out of jail for his coke and alcohol, I'm pretty confident that his money got him that degree) says things like "I'm the decider". Children talk better than that.. And some how, this degenerted into a discussion about pro-life/pro-choice?

*boggle*

Dan,
Before I respond to Savantster like I planned to (you sidetracked me) I'll answer your last question.

I think the approval poll numbers are terrible. I have seen some research about how the questions are worded, but even that doesn't do it all here.

The poll on the other thread about the polls was using more Democrats than Republicans. But its still not good.

I guess people are giving up on Pres.Bush's efforts to combat terrorism and obviously the war in Iraq. I understand you guys here hate him, but it is disappointing that people who voted for him are loosing patience.

Does that make you & everyone here happy? I don't like saying what I did, but that's how I see it. I'm sure I'll get more attacks..... oh well.

Carry on!

Savantster,

Wow, I'm quite honored that you would take all that time to do that research on my posts. Yes, I've had my barbs in on you people as they have had them on me.

You have actually helped me realize that the ferocious comments by those on this board directed at Pres.Bush as well as me has caused me to slip down to a level that I try not to go to. So I actually thank you for that.

Yet any look at the choice of words that you choose compared to my choices would see that your words go far beyond mine in terms of profanity. I said the a-word once. You said multiple profanities of the worst kind. You were a sailor, so I understand.

You and others pick on the President's choice of words. He slipped as I did and used the word I used in a comment that was not meant to be public. So did Sen.Kerry. But you use those words here a lot.

This is a public forum, is it not? Agent99 says I'm 13. Ha, wish I was 13 again, don't we all? But any 13-year-old or less could be reading this with the profanity. Rather than assume, I'll ask: Do you care about that?

Absolutely I described you people as liberal many times. Deny that you are, and "I'll laugh in your pea-brained face" (as you said). Oh, that's right. You all prefer the term, "progressive". As if killing unborn babies is progress. As if keeping people on welfare and not requiring them to work is progress. As if not going after terrorists where they hide is progress. As if being critical of the President while standing on foreign soil is progress.

more to come.... stay tuned!

Dan, #111

I did not say that, so don't anybody associate that quote to me. I don't want any of our troops to die. Not now in Iraq, in Afganistan, or not back in Vietnam, or Korea, or WWII, or WWI, or the Spanish-American war, or the Revolutionary War, etc.

As I've said earlier, one of my father's ancestors died fighting in WWII. Over 80 of his shipmates were also killed in that battle plus thousands of US sailors on other ships. But was my father's ancestor murdered by the Japanese? No. He died in battle against the enemy of our country. He gave his life to help protect our freedoms.

Same with our enemy today. Just because they are not representitive of a specific country, does not mean that they are not our enemy.

Oh, and #37, I heard the actual recording of Pres.Clinton talking about how Sudan had offered Bin Laden to his administration. So I don't know why the 9-11 commission would reject that. But, Jamie Gorelick, a member of the 9-11 commission, was the Deputy Atty. General under Pres.Clinton and was responsible for the "wall" that seperates the FBI from talking to the CIA and sharing information. I can't understand how she got on that panel.

Mike J #105

I have no knowledge of the Voter News Service but I have a working knowledge of statistics. Zogby and others conducting exit polls do use valid statistical sampling. Otherwise, the mathematicians would laugh them out of business.

Thanks for blogging here. Most of us enjoy the dialog. Too often we see trolls who drop their insults and leave. As long as you are willing to read and consider our views, I will do the same.

Oops. #122 was me.

Mike J. #115

Ya CAN'T square it.

All this is just you whistlin Dixie out your ass, expecting us to spoon feed you.

Boo ya.

:satisfied:

Sheesh, what a phony has hijacked this thread. I'll give it an "A" for creative phoniness and "F" for relevance to the real world.

Don't let it happen again, guys!

Arry,
Are you a teacher? If so great. If not, look in your phony mirror. You don't live in the real world, that's my point. You want to believe conspiracy theories way out in left. There were lots of wacko conspiracy theories about Pres.Clinton, but I did not believe most of them. Therefore I also don't believe many of the theories I see here. The only one that I am starting to believe is the issue of voting machine problems.

Charlene,
Since you refuse to answer my question, why should I answer yours? I ask for fairness, something that you are not interested in. So go ahead and attack me all you want. I'm laughing at you right now.

Savantster,
About your off-topic comment, it was Tom #34 that asked me about my positions on issues that matter to me. So I answered him and YOU choose to respond to that. Remember? TexasLady was the one who first mentioned abortion on this thread. So because you responded to my answer to Tom, then don't later comment about us being off topic if you later engage in it. You did that to me on another thread a while back and I pointed out all the off-topic posts on that thread which included you. Capish?

Back in the post where you told me to f**k off, you also mentioned about logic and Software people. I'll have you know that my applications have been used within my organization by hundreds of people for critical data collection at several sites around the country. My applications have been in three different programming languages and on several different hardware platforms with optional attachments. You and I seem to have similar work experience and education background. Yet just because I disagree with you AND you don't like the way I think, you take the opportunity to attack me. Don't worry, you will get that opportunity again. Go back to playing your computer games.

In your #114 you said to go check my #4. Problem is #4 belongs to ONYX, not me. So try again.

In your #104 you said my thought about Pres.Bush "earned him MBA" as if I had said that in quotes. I never said it that way. Quite misleading on your part.

You say that liberals like to enjoy life? Wrong. Liberals hide behind masks predenting to be happy when they really are not.

Here is your liberal machine:

Truth Seeker/Jerry,
Thank you for listening. I will consider your views and I will try not to use those phrases as much. I'm not a hypocrite, I just don't the same things that others here do.

If memory serves, Voter News Service was the company that did the polling for the news networks in the 2000 election. I think, (read: not sure) if they were also used in the 2004 election but I think that they were not.

Well, I have lots of outside work to do on this Saturday. That's all until Monday or so.

Have a nice day!

Hey Mike 60 watt J.,

You need to maintain 'street cred', or you'll be laughed off the site.

Come on now---Did your big mouth write a check you can't pay, bro?

I'll be glad to answer your assinine queries--no problem.

But since I asked you first---& since you claim you "are not a hypocrite"---then, in all fairness--- YOU need to back up your claim to honesty by answering my question first:

How can you square the fact that you profess to be Catholic & to "respect life", you don't believe in abortions or euthanasia------HOWEVER you do believe in the death penalty & the 'Pope declared' immoral Iraq war?

We're waiting....

Don't know why His Phoniness thinks I'm a conspiracy theorist. Because I post to Brad Blog? Because I recognize that he's a phony? Damned if I know.

Look - This troll comes to BB waving the "liberal" and "conspiracy" bludgeons (and displaying a profound ignorance of the issues), some BB posters vigorously respond, His Phoniness is "hurt" but will be big-hearted and forgive. He only wants us to have a dialogue with us (and implicitly recognize his smugness as valid). He is only being reasonable. Sound familiar?

From all indications His Phoniness knows about a 10th of what most BB'ers do, yet he is setting the discussion. Here we are wallowing in his victimhood and ignorance. This is what trolls do.

It is 100% reasonable for you to be damn mad about what's going on and to be part of a public uprising. And you are studying and analyzing, discussing and working. If His Phoniness was real and informed (not phony), he would be mad, too.

It's a sham, folks. Our troll would probably good at selling used cars, but we are in a serious national situation here and doing a lot of good work on Brad Blog that should stay on track. (troll=derail)

Maybe I'm wrong. (I'm not always right, you know.:-) But after 119 posts, he still can come up with that bullshit in # 120 - well, not much progress has been made, and here we are still wasting blog space.

But it's your thread

Do we have agreement group?

Do we shun 60 watt?

(Guess what Arry? I found a guide on exactly how to introduce the subject of asking for a referendum for impeachment at town hall meetings on MichaelMoore.com! It's very useful. I'm not getting much support in this town, however.)

But just to report; The fair city of Springfield, Illinois has recently joined the few but the proud who will have a referendum on the ballot in November re the subject of whether or not to impeach George W. Bush!
Hoooooooooo----RAH!

If America's Bible belt, my friends, has seen fit to officially flip George off---can the rest of America be far behind????

Yaaaaaa-HOOOOOO!

Charlene - That guide was probably a lot more helpful than I was. We just kinda learn as we go along up here. I expect some good news, too.

Good for Springfield. Enough of this blue/red oversimplification. Yeh...it's happening.

Hey Charlene,

If you get a chance will you post a link to that guide? I couldn't find it. (We can use all the help we can get.)

This is on topic and from the huffingtonpost.com
There is a very cute video to go with it. KooKooKachoo!

"I am me and Rummy's he, Iraq is free and we are all together
See the world run when Dick shoots his gun, see how I lie
I'm Lying...

Sitting on my own brain, waiting for the end of days
Corporation profits, Bloody oil money
I'm above the law and I'll decide what's right or wrong

I am the egg head, I'm the Commander, I'm the Decider
Koo-Koo-Kachoo

Baghdad city policeman sitting pretty little targets in a row
See how they die when the shrapnel flies see mothers cry
I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing...I'm Lying...I'm Ly-ing

Yellow cake uranium, imaginary WMD's
Declassifying facts, exposing secret agents
Tax cuts for the wealthy leaving all the poor behind

CHORUS

Sitting in the White house garden talking to the Lord
My thoughts would be busy busy hatching If I only had a brain"

CHORUS

(courtesy of Paul Hipp)

Also- onegoodmovie.com has the daily show clip about "the decider". Worth a look if you haven't already seen it.