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Have at it!
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Not enough posting time by Brad, means more open thread time for you. Everyone wins!
Have at it!
READER COMMENTS ON
"Open Thread-o-Rama..."
(151 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
...
QUALAR
said on 2/10/2005 @ 11:02 pm PT...
It's not weapons of mass destruction. It's not regime change. It's not the rise of freedom. IT'S THE OIL, STUPID. There's been a fortune in oil flowing out of Iraq since major combat operations ended. On each occasion when the oil issue is raised, White House responders cannot change the subject fast enough. Check all available footage concerning this matter and you'll discover this to be true. What ever happened to the idea that oil revenues would reimburse our war effort in Iraq? Some entities are making a killing in Iraq and it's not the American nor Iraqi people. Journalists should be asking two questions about the oil: How much oil has flowed out of Iraq and who has the receipts? I'll bet they won't receive a straight answer to these questions. These questions should be repeatedly asked of this administration until they come clean. Actually, this topic would be a great subject for a documentary, but what news organization has the guts to take on this administration much less the oil industry. Might end up in bathtub with one slashed wrist.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/10/2005 @ 11:03 pm PT...
Oh freedom!! And the pursuit of happiness!
Open up those minds and let the thread run free!
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/10/2005 @ 11:07 pm PT...
Apparently the oil is running unmetered in some places.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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QUALAR
said on 2/10/2005 @ 11:28 pm PT...
Teresa,
You're absolutely correct! The meter must have been turned off for 9 billion dollars worth of oil. That's right billion with a "B". How can a democracy lose that much money? It's not like balancing your checkbook. The UN Oil-For-Food program is a distraction (peanuts compared to American corruption in IRAQ). We need to cleanup our own house before we tackle the UN failures.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 1:54 am PT...
A recent more fair poll shows that Bushit can't be used to fool all the people all the time.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
...
Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:09 am PT...
Get scared.
A lawyer was convicted of crime by telling followers that her client had withdrawn his support of an egyptian ceasefire. Without proof that the statement led to any violence. Story here.
The major part of the case, according to the AP, was:
"A major part of the prosecution's case was Stewart's 2000 release of a statement withdrawing the sheik's support for a cease-fire in Egypt by his militant followers. Prosecutors, though, could point to no violence that resulted from the statement".
AG ("almost god") Gonzales says it is a great victory, because those who use words to support those the admin think are of the "axis of evil" can be sent to jail for a long, long time.
My problem with the prosecution is that is is such a fine line or close case, and the AG is a bull in a china shop when it comes to civil rights.
I would be less concerned if it were by a prosecuting agency of 10 years ago.
I mean the current AG thinks he can advocate torture on people not even charged with crime, but on the other hand what is really a political position on the politics of Egypt, can't be mentioned by a lawyer about her client.
With the current AG's well known position on civil rights, can we reasonably expect an attack on BLOG's next?
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:43 am PT...
I find this interesting , Dredd, in that case:(#6)
"Prosecutor Andrew Dember argued that Stewart and her co-defendants essentially "broke Abdel-Rahman out of jail, made him available to the worst kind of criminal we find in this world — terrorists."
Since when is it stated that terrorism is the "worst" crime. Isn't that opinion? Terrorism has always been a war tactic, and now a handful of people have upped the ante on the pursuit and prosecution of those involved. In any way involved. I don't like it. A terrorist is worse than a torturer? And a war criminal?
It's getting kind of comical. The people are not falling for the Social Security scam. It finally hit home. So he is going around the country screaming like a child, "we're in a crisis! we're in a crisis!"
Yeah, he's right. We are in a crisis thanks to him.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:46 am PT...
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't put that smiley in!
DREDD!!!! What have you done????!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:48 am PT...
:laugh:
Heavens! You have done something.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:49 am PT...
:laugh:
Heavens! You have done something.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:51 am PT...
Dredd #6
The question as to how long they will allow blogs, let alone general internet use, has been bothering me for awhile. They must know that this is our best tool, and I'm sure they must be looking at ways to limit or end free, or even any, access.
Then again, in the sixties, my Mom, and all the brave and motivated protesters of the Vietnam War didn't have the internet, and they were able to organize and help to bring about the end of that war.
Maybe we should begin to explore ways of staying connected to one another in the event that an assault is made on our access to the internet, because, we have to be prepared for anything since they have proven time and time again that they are capable of "anything".
Just a thought....
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:51 am PT...
:O Oops.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Phil
said on 2/11/2005 @ 7:07 am PT...
I'm sure they love the blogs. Best way to make lists.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:32 am PT...
Dredd's playing games with you Teresa. He's an awful tease!
Not to be a nag, but in the Koufax award thread I said,
"As little time as I have for Paul he does have a point. Brad does a really good job here and I know that it must interfere with his ability to earn $$$$. In that vein, I challenge all of you to meet or beat my last donation of $25 to help out with the cost of maintaining this wonderful site!!! C'mon everyone!"
Where is everyone's response? C'mon guys. This blog makes it much easier to stay in touch than a central communication bank that relies on snail mail. We should make a regular, monthly donation to help out with cost. After all, this blog belongs to *all* of us, doesn't it?
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
...
Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:38 am PT...
Qualar #1, oil for sure. It's the drug of choice for empires. And as it diminishes, evil empires emerge as do emergencies.
Teresa #8,#9,#10. That happened to me on #6. There is a bug in the script parser. It happened the other day and WP fixed it. It has to do with parenthesis some how. It messes up the parser.
Teresa #7. My concern is that it is a step towards us. I think the lawyer stepped over the line. But the punishment should be loss of visit rights for an amount of time or for good. Not 20 years in prison. All she did was express the terrorist's political view with respect to an Egyptian political debate. I think terrorism and torture are both wrong and neither excuses the other.
Supersoling #11. True. I wonder if emails would do it. Or remember the old bulletin boards?
Phil #13. Good point. The lazy ones, evidently the majority, would have to go to gumshoe work and that may be outside the comfort zone.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:43 am PT...
Cheryl #14 ... I am not a tease ... any of you single gals can kiss me long and sweet anytime. I am all yours honey ...
And I didn't do the smile sporaticness ... it is a bug in the script parser I noticed about a week ago.
I will contribute but I do not have pay pal.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Nana
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:51 am PT...
Lawyer for US deserters speak "It cannot be irrelevant to a soldier that a war is legal or illegal" Lee Parsons WSWS http://www.uruknet.info?9584
according to military, 5,500 deserted in past year
# 14 CHERYL- I'm with ya!
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:52 am PT...
Ain't this the truth?
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 9:05 am PT...
Isn't this disgusting?
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
...
G
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:15 am PT...
:) :O :angry: :blush: :confused: :crazy: :doze: :hehe: :laugh: :plain: :rolleyes: :satisfied:
Neat...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
...
G
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:18 am PT...
Brad you are one creative :rolleyes:guy!!!!
Neat :crazy:really :crazy:neat :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:34 am PT...
Lynne Stewart, the lawyer convicted yesterday in federal court, was on Democracy Now this A.M. with her lawyer Michael Tiger and ex-AG Ramsey Clark. What a woman! She and her supporters have set up a website, lynnestewart.org, to build visibility and get the word out that law and the Constitution is being trampled, kicked to death and buried (my words) my this badministration. They also brought up the conviction of the Muslim, ex-Iraqi doctor in Syracuse, who has been pilloried for raising medical aid for Iraqi citizens during the embargo. These people, mostly women and children, have been suffering not only from the shortages caused by the embargo but from the residues of depleted uranium left in their country from the first Gulf War. The incidents of cancer has risen exponentially because of the contamination, and access to medical care and medicines was/is virtually nil. So this M.D. did what M.D.s are sworn to do. He raised funds and organized the distribution of medical aid in Iraq to SAVE LIVES. But he has been convicted of a major felony because he "broke the embargo." Of course, the U.S. and many other countries winked and looked away when the embargo was broken for oil and profit.
With Dredd I say: "Be VERY afraid!" But also be very energized, like Mrs. Stewart. If we don't fight this now, with everything we've got (and more) there won't be anything left to fight for. Gonzales, go back to hell!!!
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
...
Nana
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:50 am PT...
Almost to true to be funny, but worth looking at for a chuckle is Dean Friedmans video "4 more years" at deanfriedman.com (note God whispering in bush's ear)
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 11:39 am PT...
The emoticons are fooling with our heads!
I think we are in an altered dimension here in cyberspace.
Here's a very interesting read: you can skip the long first part on Pearl Harbor, to get to some good insights on Iran:
"THE PLAN IS NOT FOR THE USA TO ATTACK IRAN as “leaked” to Seymour Hirsh. The leaks to Hirsh, and all the noise going on in the media, is merely to stir up the Ayatollahs like a hornet’s nest, as Roosevelt stirred up the Japanese before Pearl Harbor, and for the same reasons, and with the same consequences: That IRAN should attack the USA. And to provoke that happening, ISRAEL will first attack Iran.
Of one thing we may be certain: The powerful Neocons in the United States are NOT dumb. I can testify for the American public that they are extremely bright men, superbly devious, and totally without ethics or morals. They have one supreme goal, the expansion of Israel, and this end justifies any and all means, including mass murder. Because of this blinding obsession, one thing besides a conscience is sorely lacking in their mental makeup: imagination."
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
...
Brad
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:21 pm PT...
For the record, if using a Credit Card, you DON'T NEED to have a PayPal account in order to Donate to The BRAD BLOG.
I'm sure you're all delighted to know that!
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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czaragorn
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:22 pm PT...
Aye, Cheryl! ##18 and 19! Thanks for your always interesting links - you and kes have sharp eyes indeed
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:23 pm PT...
Supersoling -
I saw something yesterday to the effect that the powers that be are in fact considering limiting the use of the internet. You said in #11
"Maybe we should begin to explore ways of staying connected to one another in the event that an assault is made on our access to the internet, because, we have to be prepared for anything since they have proven time and time again that they are capable of "anything".
"Just a thought...."
Any thoughts on how we could accomplish this? The propect of losing all of you, and the only way to get at real information, all in one fell swoop, truly horrifies me. I'd almost rather be literally dead than brain-dead. Strike that "almost."
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
...
cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:35 pm PT...
Great article on Howard Dean
But what is it with these Dems? Why are they so afraid of rocking the boat? Obviously status quo hasn't worked. It's past time for a real leader!!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
...
czaragorn
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:35 pm PT...
And Teresa - once again (musta said this before), YOU GO GIRL!!!
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
...
cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:42 pm PT...
These are all good things but it's awfully hard to listen to critiscism by the Congress regarding mismanagement, cover-ups and political meddling considering what's happening with their own President and his gang of thugs.
And at least the ex-employee from the UN Weather agency is under investigation for embezzling $3 million. Still haven't heard anything about the missing $8.8 BILLION from Iraq.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
...
czaragorn
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:43 pm PT...
It's clear - we need a central troble-makers' clearing house
Once it's happened, it'll be too late
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:45 pm PT...
Heavens, Czaragorn!!
I've been trying to get going for so long. With you wonderful encouragement, I just might get there.
Man....nothin like a bit of faith!
Didn't know where I was headed a while back. My ticket didn't specify a destination. But I'm ever so glad I ended up in Bradville. Or is this the Promised Land?
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
...
LGM
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:50 pm PT...
Paul is like a fat cop on a perpetual donut break. Never around when you need him. Unfortunately, I don't have the text of the e-mail I got from him where he decries this sort of thing, (because he went to Russia once and hung out with a rock band), but I wonder if he's happy now, comrades?
Seig Heil! Seig Heil! Paul, what do you think of Der Furher and the party now?
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:51 pm PT...
This is for sure. William Rivers Pitt says The News is Broken. Who'd a thunk it?
Here's another outrage, just to keep your adrenalin level topped up. Scientists at U.S. Fish and Wildlife are told to alter their findings
http://www.latimes.com/n...-home-nation">or else.
What an "interesting" world this is turning into! Sidney Blumenthal says this of our fearful/fearsome leader:
"The momentum of events abroad and at home has carried him to an unknown place where complication may ambush him at every turn. The consequences of George W. Bush are the greatest threat to George W. Bush."
Well put. I hope, though, that there ARE consequences. It would be a first for the ratty little *.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 12:59 pm PT...
How about walkie-talkies?
These people are humans. They are not mythological gods with superhuman powers. The brain and communication are multidimensional and more powerful than ever known as today's scientists are discovering. The neocons are probably behind in this respect. They are using traditional methods of propaganda. I don't see how they can wield power over this force. Especially if we mobilize and stay united in the collective consciousness.
We have more power than you know. We can always find a way. Life is a series of adjustments. Let the bastards do what they will and get it over with. And let us continue on our path unobstructed.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
...
KARIN
said on 2/11/2005 @ 1:38 pm PT...
Controllers' 9/11 Tapes Destroyed
By Leslie Miller
From: http://www.registerguard...t.sept11tapes2.0507.html
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Air traffic controllers who handled two of the hijacked flights on Sept. 11, 2001, recorded their experiences shortly after the planes crashed into the World Trade Center but a supervisor destroyed the tape, government investigators said Thursday.
A report by Transportation Department Inspector General Kenneth Mead said the manager for the New York-area air traffic control center asked the controllers to make the recordings a few hours after the crashes in belief they would be important for law enforcement.
Investigators never heard it. Sometime between December 2001 and February 2002, an unidentified Federal Aviation Administration quality assurance manager crushed the cassette case in his hand, cut the tape into small pieces and threw them away in multiple trash cans, the report said.
``We were told that nobody ever listened to, transcribed or duplicated the tape,'' Mead said in the report sent to Sen. John McCain. The Arizona Republican asked the inspector general to look into how well the agency was cooperating with the independent panel investigating the attacks.
Neither manager told anyone outside the center - including their superiors and law enforcement officials - about the tape's existence, the report said. The Sept. 11 commission learned of the tape during interviews with New York air traffic control center personnel between September and October.
The destruction occurred even though the FAA sent a directive three days after the hijackings: ``Retain and secure until further notice ALL Administrative/Operational data and records. ... If a question arises whether or not you should retain the data, RETAIN IT.''
The quality assurance manager said he destroyed the tape because he felt it violated FAA policy calling for written statements from controllers who have handled a plane involved in an accident or other serious incident. He also said he felt the controllers were not in the right frame of mind to have consented to the taping, the report said.
The manager said he waited several months to destroy the tape because he promised the local controllers' union vice president that he would get rid of it once the control center's formal accident package was complete, the report said. That package was sent to FAA headquarters in November 2001.
The report did not characterize the tape's destruction as an attempted cover-up. But it said the recording could have helped provide a fuller explanation of what happened on Sept. 11.
``What those six controllers recounted in a group setting on Sept. 11, in their own voices, about what transpired that morning, are no longer available to assist any investigation or inform the public,'' the report said.
Mead said his office referred the case to federal prosecutors in New York, but they declined to prosecute because of lack of criminal intent.
FAA spokesman Greg Martin said the quality control manager was disciplined for violating the directive to keep everything relating to the hijackings and to turn them over to investigators.
Martin said the FAA believes the tape is consistent with written statements and other materials provided to investigators. It ``would not have added in any significant way to the information already provided to investigators and members of the 9/11 commission,'' Martin said.
The report said the controllers who made the tape had either talked to the hijacked planes that crashed into the World Trade Center or were working radar positions that intersected with the jetliners' flight paths.
The report concluded that there was ``some measure of consistency'' between witness statements later taken from the controllers and what was recorded on the tape. That conclusion was based on interviews with the six controllers and all 10 witnesses to the taping, and on sketchy notes taken during the tape recording. Also retained were radar data and recordings of radio transmissions from the cockpit.
John Carr, president of the air traffic controllers' union, said he did not know whether the manager did the right thing by destroying the tape.
``It was a traumatic time for him,'' he said. ``He was the custodian for the darkest moment in our nation's history.''
HERE IS LINK TO A NY TIMES ARTICLE TALKING ABOUT DESTROYED TAPES:
:O
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
...
seattle_dan
said on 2/11/2005 @ 1:52 pm PT...
George Tenet said something to the effect that the "Wild West Days of the Internet must come to an end." Consider that... and BE afraid.
I remember having to go to KPFA to get the real story when Caspar Weinberger was becoming a "made man" at Public Television in SF. The lessons from; Nixon's loss to Kennedy; the role of the media in reporting the Vietnam War to bringing about it's ultimate end; were not lost on the Fifties Fascists.
They can do a lot on the internet with disinformation, obfuscation and old fashioned, illegal dirty tricks. But I believe it won't be enough for them sooner than we all realize. Right now, we serve them as an eye into our homes and our politics... As a resource for propoganda etc... but EVERYTHING is terrorism now... defending a Muslim in court... environmental/consumer/labor/anti-war/journalism and activism.... ALL "terrorism...' hell, Ashcroft quietly declared that sharing anything copyright protected over the internet "funds terrorism..." only six months ago... I just downloaded a hot Leadbelly tune... QUICK, CALL THE BLACK SHIRTS!
These guys can do anything they want and as the previous poster stated... if it isn't on CNN, it doesn't exist in the public mind......
We all clapped like trained seals at the Democratic Convention, while the two Johns talked tough about terror... which pro-war Dem did YOU despise the least?
I'm ranting now... sorry
Centrism is a direct function of Corruption... When the anti-war sentiment of Howard Dean became justification to label him as a "radical leftist" there was only ONE logical conclusion.... ALL those in the DNC and GOP that voted for WAR, are on the corporate TIT... period. We knew that Bush was lying and SO DID THEY.
Dean at the DNC is TOO little and TOO late IMHO.... the PNAC Signatores cannot be stopped mid-project or their house of cards will come tumbling down... they MUST retain power at any cost...
Rove's 40 year plan... I wonder if he got his notions watching Star Trek.... United States of the World with an American at the Helm, boldly going where no man has gone before... yeah buddy.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
...
Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 2:00 pm PT...
Brad #25. The credit card thing did not work. I have a middle initial and my C card server does not go thru unless the middle Initial is used. The one pay pal is putting up for you only does first and last names. I tried to fool it by putting the MI in the first name and last name but no go.
Karin #36. Here is a quote from the earliest one to work on this stuff:
"9/11 Report Cites Many Warnings About Hijackings - by Eric Lichtblau, NY Times
FTW was the first to start talking about this more than three years ago. We were crucified for it in fact. Before anyone starts celebrating this revelation, let’s see if anyone in Washington or other seat of power actually does anything about it. The best 9/11 activists have made their cases in spades. The proverbial turd is in the public punchbowl. We shouldn’t waste any energy taking to the streets or holding rallies and symposia this time. Let’s see if anybody up there does anything.
Why? Because now – especially after Crossing the Rubicon and books by David Ray Griffin, Nafeez Ahmed, Michel Chossudovsky and Paul Thompson – if nothing is done, then the rest of the people will notice.
If they don’t, then maybe they’re just not worth fighting for. There are more of us than the elites think there are. We should dance to our own music and not to someone else’s. – MCR"
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
...
cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 3:11 pm PT...
Riverbend has a new entry today.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
...
supersoling
said on 2/11/2005 @ 4:57 pm PT...
I have to say, having read through this thread, that I can't imagine a place filled with such diverse, intelligent, and passionate people, existing anywhere else. Well, of course there is........ but, I kind of like it here. Thank you all for your Patriotism
Seattle_Dan #37 George Tenet is the one I also heard say that internet access should be limited, and wonder as well if by posting our "politics" in an open fasion, we are giving "them" all the info they need to prosecute us all for being terrorists. I don't doubt for a moment that there are those that would, and will in the future, given the opportunity, take that approach. Scary
Karin #36 I believe that whoever it was that destroyed that tape, must of had some damn scary people breathing down his neck. I also read somewhere, sorry no link, that after the attack on the Pentagon, government officers confiscated all the surveilance video tapes from nearby convenience stores, and gas stations etc., so as not to reveal what some have claimed, was not actually a commercial airplane, but rather a military one, or even a missile. This STILL blows my mind.
Cheryl #39 Heartwrenching no? Difficult to imagine living in those kind of conditions, waiting for the faint sound of water dibbling to arrive to an ear newly trained to recognize it. Can any of us say that we could endure this?.......I can't.
Peg C #27 & 34 respectively. First I have to say that you have a perfectly beautiful way of conveying your thoughts in written words. It reminds me of something Victorian, or even, Shakesperian. Truly an art, thank you.
I'm sure we would find a way to adapt if we lost access to each other and all the information that is here at our fingertips, however distressing that would be. But I don't know of a way we could still come together and pass along so much information so fast without the internet, other than by phone or mail. Yikes! The stone age I like Teresa's idea of using walkie-talkies. Only those of us who are true Brad Blog operatives could gain access to these highly top secret devices Hey, if they make em, I'll buy em.
Will Pitt seems a gifted writer and dedicated progressive, having read much of his work at Truthout and his posts at Democratic Underground. It is still possible for me to slip, though temporarily, in to a sense that when you watch the news, you assume that this is America, and they wouldn't lie to us, when the opposite is true. I guess I'm still in shock at the totality of the assault on our beloved country.
Nevermind looking back, this is the fight of our lives.
Peace
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
...
Teresa
said on 2/11/2005 @ 5:56 pm PT...
I believe you are right, Supersoling.(#40)
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
...
cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 6:16 pm PT...
Me, too.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 6:24 pm PT...
Supersoling - I agree absolutely with your opening remarks above. This site is wonderful, a gathering place for a truly remarkable group of feeling, thinking, dedicated people. Let's fight to protect it and all other like it.
In your remarks to Karin, you quoted a report stating that all tapes of the Pentagon hit were immediately confiscated. That's right. They were. And the reasons are too shocking for anyone to want to believe, but all laid out in a few well-documented places. Just a sec, while I pull up the links...
First, the *specific,* in PDF for printing, here;
the a few more few more comprehensive information centers - one; two; three and four.
Have lots of "fun" raising the hairs on the back of your neck.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 6:28 pm PT...
Boy, I sure do mess up with typos when I'n copying and pasting! Please forgive.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 7:13 pm PT...
Cheryl -
Thanks for dropping by the site. It is a work in progress, as you could see. I opened it for our local Progressive group, but it hasn't come alive yet. I'm thinking of opening another in a different format for the group and keeping my own on a somewhat more regular schedule.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
...
jaime
said on 2/11/2005 @ 7:17 pm PT...
Brad will agree with me on this...
RIP Arthur Miller.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
...
Winter Patriot
said on 2/11/2005 @ 7:28 pm PT...
Have you seen this yet?
The CNN exec who said [on January 27th, at a World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland] that US troops in Iraq have been targeting journalists [and who since then has been denying that he said it, and/or claiming that he didn't mean what he said, and/or saying that his comments were not as clear as they should have been] has suddenly resigned.
CNN executive resigns after controversial remarks
Eason Jordan sent a letter to his colleagues saying:
"After 23 years at CNN, I have decided to resign in an effort to prevent CNN from being unfairly tarnished by the controversy over conflicting accounts of my recent remarks regarding the alarming number of journalists killed in Iraq."
Controversy over the conflicting accounts? In other words, the conflict between what Jordan says he said, and what the people who heard him say he said? Or could it have been because his denials were not holding any water?
Is it really true that his comments were not as clear as they should have been? Or was it simply that his comments were all too clear?
And is this another road-kill on the highway called "Journalists May No Longer Tell The Truth"?
Lots of questions tonight. No answers.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
...
Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 8:13 pm PT...
Heaven help us. I'd seen the initial reports of his remarks, but not of his resignation.
"And is this another road-kill on the highway called "Journalists May No Longer Tell The Truth"?"
One has to suspect that it is.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 9:37 pm PT...
It's roadkill.
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/11/2005 @ 9:49 pm PT...
nice people here.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:21 pm PT...
Cheryl - I'll look it up in a moment, but first: has it occurred to anyone to wonder at the coincidence of the "missing" Halliburton nuclear shipment's turning up in Boston and the arrest in Boston of the Chinese nationals supposedly set upon planting a dirty bomb there? I have arisen, as usual, from my bed of unrest, to telegraph this, because it struck me this A.M., but I got caught up in other gross stuff and forgot. The Chinese were irrelevant, as it turned out. But who is relevant? Maybe Halliburton knows.
I'll bet anything Cheney knows.
Next it will be four Iranian tourists and a "missing" shipment of enriched uranium, whose missingness goes unreported for months despite NAC regs. Only maybe this time the "shipment" will detonate.
Am I paranoid or what?
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/11/2005 @ 10:51 pm PT...
Makes you wonder if Nee left Yang for Haliburton.
Look out Haliburton ... $100 fine comin your way ...
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/12/2005 @ 1:03 am PT...
Dredd,Brad - I've made CC payments on PayPal without my middle initial, and they've gone through. At least my statement tells me so. I think that 3-digit thingy on the back is confirmation that you are who you say you are.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 3:22 am PT...
This is such a diverse and fascinating group of people here. I am so delighted. We have writers, poets, philosophers, metaphysicians, lawyers, historians, journalists, 'comedians', 'foreigners', mothers, fathers, grandmothers, and plain all around good folks.
The conversation is endlessly stimulating. I look forward to it daily. I am learning and enjoying it all so much.
Thanks, everyone.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:01 am PT...
Good morning all,
I just read Karl Schwarz part 6 of his "Pop goes the Bush mythology bubble" series of articles at Online Journal. #6 is here. It's a long and tangled read, but get's clearer toward the end if you have the patience. All five previous articles are linked at the bottom. You know, when I read this sort of stuff, I realize that our recent stolen election was only a small part of a much larger assault on not only our own country, but really the entire world.
There are also two petitions linked at the end of the article, one of which, I think Peg C had brought to our attention in an earlier thread, that I will link again here, and another one asking for the release of classified info that shows that Americans names for seen during FBI intelligence translations found by Sibel Edmonds, an FBI translator. Her petition is here. Search her name at Google and you will find much info about her.
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:06 am PT...
Okay, the first link didn't work. I'll try again.
36
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:08 am PT...
OOOOOOOOkay........Just go to Online Journal.com, it's on the front page. Sheesh
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:21 am PT...
Hi, Im baaaaaack.
Here is an excellant resource for information about Sibel Edmonds.
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:22 am PT...
Brad #53 and Peg #54.
Card processor pages are not 100% standardized even tho the bare bones internal logic is close to it. (I did some software that processed cards for the USPO a year or so ago.)
Will get to the bottom of it.
WP #47.....
I read about the same story at my way.
This underscores the fact that the MSM fears the powers that be.
And not only yes the military will target journalists who are not "embedded" (in bed with) them, hell yes they will.
They are known, as a matter of public record, to do terrorism upon the american people.
Read declassifed doc in national archives. Under the patriot act and the other acts of recent vintage, they would serve life sentences. But as we all know the patriot act is to be used to take out true patriots in the future. The phony patriots (e.g. yanger Nee) who lie and deceive will not be prosecuted under it. They will get a $100 fine.
This is an old story in another journalists body, but an important story non-the-less.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 9:23 am PT...
Whoaaa...very powerful piece. This is the first time that I've actually read the entire Ward Churchill article that has caused so much venomous, vitriolic hatred by the right-wingers. And you know, until they learn to respectfully listen to what other people have to say instead of responding with knee-jerk defensiveness I guess things will never change. They just don't want to hear.
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 2/12/2005 @ 10:32 am PT...
> "We are trying so hard to be like Republicans and we're not. I think Howard Dean says clearly that we are different," Cusack said. "We are the party of ordinary citizens and not the elite, we are everyday working folk."
http://apnews.myway.com/.../20050212/D8872O0O0.html
That is a bunch of BS. Let's see - Kennedy, Soros, Hollywood elite, Rockefeller...give us a break.
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 2/12/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT...
LOL, Dredd. (And I'll look into that middle initial thang. I don't like it. Not one bit!)
Agreed, Jaime.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT...
Ward Churchill
Freedom of speech requires that "everyone" is entitled to their opinion, as Professor Churchill certainly is, but I do find some parts of his article disturbing. I agree that there were many, as he calls them, "little eichmanns" busily at work that day. But I also believe that many more truly innocent workers died that day. It cannot be said that they had it coming to them, when they were doing mostly menial jobs, trying to survive, and pay their bills. Churchill himself has since made this distinction. Now I know that it doesn't seem fair to divide people into guilty and innocent groups, and I'm uncomfortable reading what I just wrote, and no one deserved to die, but I agree with his basic idea.
The other thing that bothers me, is his portrayal of the 911 attacks as a counter attack by the Iraqi's in retaliation for 10 years of diabilitating sanctions against their country. This is what **sh would have us believe in order to justify his attack on Iraq. We know this is untrue. It was Al Qaida that attacked us. They attacked in the name of poor and repressed Muslims worldwide, of which the Iraqi"s are a part. They attacked because of our continued basing of troops in Saudi Arabia. They attacked because of our one sided support for Israel, while Palestinians are oppressed and occupied. They attacked for these reasons and others, but it wasn't the Iraqi's.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 1:15 pm PT...
Hi Supersoling,
I admit there are some parts of his article that I didn't agree with; but there were many parts that I did. What bothers me is that Bush and his merry band of thugs (and supporters) are so absolutely determined that they are right in their course of action that they vilify anyone who disagrees. And they don't just disagree, they destroy people. Look what they did to Churchill. And my concern is that too many Americans see it, accept it and don't wonder how and when their society changed.
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 3:48 pm PT...
I heard Churchill on Mike Malloy last night and it was good. I think this might be very important in the movement against dissent. They are trying to destroy him a la McCarthy, and probably will suggest treason in some way. This man is going against the whole terrorist hoax and fear being perpetuated by the government. If Churchill prevails, and I think he is very smart and clever, then I believe this will be a milestone.
He voluntarily left his position as director of the department he headed, and now he is working to keep his tenure. All the while, his radical ideas are IN THE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 3:54 pm PT...
I think what Churchill was saying, was that the Trade Center was a front for CIA operations that were hurting people around the globe, so it was understandable that it got hit.
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 4:42 pm PT...
Teresa #66
I agree with you. The trade center was a nerve center for many injustices dealt to peoples and countries around the world. I would defend Churchill's right to say whatever he wanted to. It was just on a personal level, knowing that even the "little eichmann's" left behind husbands and wives, and children, that I was uncomfortable with his choice of justification. Those left behind were no less innocent victims, than any other. I get the big picture.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
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Lori
said on 2/12/2005 @ 4:52 pm PT...
With respect to the symbolic nature of the WTO in Churchill's article.
The simplified interpretation I gleened from the Ward Churchill article was that the Trade Center represented the unbridled greed and domination western capitalists display and thwart throughtout the world without little thought or concern for anything else other than their own means to an eventual goal; i.e. $ and might. The idealogy, or lack thereof, of the WTO was a symbolic take down; the people who died became the mechanics of a path deemed unacceptable by those who are continually unheard, dismissed, taken advantage of, or grossly suppressed.
In the fifties, my heart was broken the day in elementary school when I first read about the "Trail of Tears". It has been broken may times over, especially when I witness so many people who display not one iota or very little concern when introduced to the plight and abuse of others. Ward's implication is that we are complicent and abetting an injustice when we don blinders while pursuing our own goals, or care too little to change course when things are out of balance. Koyaanisqatski!
George Bush is of the ilk of Andrew Jackson, and the others before him and after him.
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
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Lori
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:13 pm PT...
Koyaanisqatski! - oops! - I just made it Polish. Should be Koyaanisqatsi!
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:20 pm PT...
Lori #68 True
We are in a new era of "Manifest Destiny" that gives us the right, through our power, to subjigate those who are weaker than us, with the only justification being that we are the chosen ones and therefore have a righteous duty to spread our ideology around the world.
I have ancestors, though far removed, that walked the trail of tears, and have read over, and over again, anything I could find about First Nations histories, searching in vain for a happy ending because of the outrage I feel at what was done to them.
Yes, we have our latest Andrew Jackson. But this one will not be allowed to perpetrate on us, what his namesake perpetrated in the past.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:23 pm PT...
And please Lori, will you translate Koyaanisqats for us?
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:30 pm PT...
I messed it up too.
Koyaanisqatsi, it sounds like it comes from the Pacific Northwest
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
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Lori
said on 2/12/2005 @ 5:57 pm PT...
Supersoling, thanks for asking. Hopi expression for "life out of balance".
I also meant "complicit" and not "complicent". Have no idea where that one came from.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 6:02 pm PT...
I have the utmost respect for you Supersoling, and certainly don’t wish to cause uncomfortable feelings between us. But, isn’t it funny how different readers can get different impressions from different authors’ writings? Do you suppose that our differences (as far as country of origin) kick in during discussions like this?
You said, "I agree that there were many, as he calls them, "little eichmanns" busily at work that day. But I also believe that many more truly innocent workers died that day. It cannot be said that they had it coming to them, when they were doing mostly menial jobs, trying to survive, and pay their bills."
I think, *Little eichmann's* was a painful expression for us to hear because there were a lot of ordinary people in the Twin Towers that day that did lose their lives. And we all mourned every one of them. But I don't think Churchill was talking about the ordinary people, the secretaries, or mail people or restaurant workers; I think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think he was talking about those in positions of authority, the power people, the ones that form the heart of America’s global financial empire. I think that those that attacked the World Trade Centre did so knowing that many innocent people would die as well and I think that they figured it was a fair trade for the many innocent people that have died as a result of the US’s collateral damage during the sanctions and first war on Iraq. I think they think that America is evil. As Churchill says,
“Evil – for those inclined to embrace the banality of such a concept – was perfectly incarnated in that malignant toad known as Madeline Albright, squatting in her studio chair like Jaba the Hutt, blandly spewing the news that she'd imposed a collective death sentence upon the unoffending youth of Iraq. Evil was to be heard in that great American hero "Stormin' Norman" Schwartzkopf's utterly dehumanizing dismissal of their systematic torture and annihilation as mere "collateral damage." Evil, moreover, is a term appropriate to describing the mentality of a public that finds such perspectives and the policies attending them acceptable, or even momentarily tolerable.”
Re-reading his article, I didn’t get that he was portraying the 911 attacks as a counter attack by the Iraqi's in retaliation for 10 years of disabilitating sanctions against their country. I got that Iraq was the last straw. I got that he feels that the attack came as a result of aggression waged against the “Islamic East” by the “Christian West”.
Churchill writes that “one might rightly describe their actions as "desperate." Feelings of desperation, however, are a perfectly reasonable – one is tempted to say "normal" – emotional response among persons confronted by the mass murder of their children, particularly when it appears that nobody else really gives a damn (ask a Jewish survivor about this one, or, even more poignantly, for all the attention paid them, a Gypsy).
That desperate circumstances generate desperate responses is no mysterious or irrational principle, of the sort motivating fanatics. Less is it one peculiar to Islam. Indeed, even the FBI's investigative reports on the combat teams' activities during the months leading up to September 11 make it clear that the members were not fundamentalist Muslims. Rather, it's pretty obvious at this point that they were secular activists – soldiers, really – who, while undoubtedly enjoying cordial relations with the clerics of their countries, were motivated far more by the grisly realities of the U.S. war against them than by a set of religious beliefs.”
What I did get however, was a very uncomfortable feeling that a man had the ability to see inside and dissect 911 and offer, in his opinion, what really happened. And what I do get is the absolute inability of the far right in America to set aside their pre-conceived ideas and listen, really listen to the possibility that someone like he may be right.
Sorry about the length. I hope we’re ok.
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 6:09 pm PT...
Supersoling #70:
"I have ancestors, though far removed, that walked the trail of tears, and have read over, and over again, anything I could find about First Nations histories, searching in vain for a happy ending because of the outrage I feel at what was done to them."
We are blood brothers. My ancestors are cherokee people who refused to leave and walk the trail of a thousand tears and went into hiding in the mountains of NE Tennessee. We hid for a few decades.
I excavated their camps when I was young. They were skilled at living in the wilderness. I did the same thing in the Yukon Territory when the FBI was after me over the draft in the 60's. There were wanted photos in the USPO with my picture on it in some areas of Alaska.
Another of my descendants on the white side (I am mixed) was a northern scout who did guerilla work against the slave mongers in Tennessee. He protected the families of those in the south who fought for freedom for the slaves. His name was Tinker Dave Beaty.
President Jackson was a rogue who refused to obey the Supreme Court who outlawed his actions.
There comes a time when we stand. We are now verbal, ideological guerillas and I for one will not walk the next trail of a thousand tears.
COMMENT #76 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 6:21 pm PT...
Lori #68. This assumes that the "official 911 story" as presented by the 911 commission is true.
That is an assumption no one should swallow whole.
There are just too many inconsistencies in the story.
For instance, "lets roll". Do you really believe that cell phones would work on a jet airliner in a bathroom or anywhere else on the aircraft at high altitudes at 700 mph in rural Pennsylvania?
Do you really believe that a paper passport of an alleged hijacker would survive and be found within an hour on the ground near the WTC when the black boxes on the same aircraft are said to not be found?
Etc, etc.
COMMENT #77 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/12/2005 @ 6:57 pm PT...
Cheryl, believe me, we are okay:)
I see everything you do in Churchill's writing, but maybe you are right about origins. I am having trouble divorcing myself from my nationality. This gives me the greatest discomfort because I sometimes feel pulled in different directions. Patriotism is a tricky thing, at least for me, and gives me the awful feeling that I don't have a country anymore, that I don't belong here, and this is difficult. Hey, **sh is counting on confused people like me, and it's working so far, but I won't be going to the dark side anytime soon. Besides, I can't allow them to run me off, as tempting as Canada, or New Zealand may seem.
I feel like you are my sister Cheryl, and brothers and sisters can challenge and question one another, but in the end, brothers and sisters stick together
Dredd#75
How fortunate you are to know some of your ancestral history. How proud you must feel. Although I know very little of my Native relatives past, I do know that my grandmothers mother was full blood Cherokee from Oklahoma where the walking part of the trail of tears ended. My grandmother was adopted by a white family when she was a young girl and taken to New York, so her memories were few. But of all the different ethnicities that flow through my veins, my Cherokee heritage is what gives me the greatest pride. Do you ever wish you had a time machine? I do
Dredd.......yesterday I had three brothers. Today I have four.
Thank you
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
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Lori
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:07 pm PT...
Dredd, I was simply responding to a previously posted interpretation of the depicted WTC symbolism by Ward Churchill. My post did not express my viewpoint on who attacked the WTC or Pentagon, or how it was carried out. I was only providing my interpretation of what another individual stated.
The comparison between Bush and Andrew Jackson was my own, and I continue to believe there are a number of similarities.
"Ward's implication is that we are complicit and abetting an injustice when we don blinders while pursuing our own goals, or care too little to change course when things are out of balance. Koyaanisqatsi!" That statement did not suggest who was responsible, however it does strongly suggest that things will not improve until a great many more people become educated and involved, and massively begin challenging the misuse of justice and the outright criminality perpetrated by political leaders.
In summary, I was not expressing my viewpoint about who is responsibile for the take down of the WTC. And thanks for the opportunity to respond.
COMMENT #79 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:50 pm PT...
Thanks Supersoling for the supportive words. I too, feel like we are family. I feel like all of us are family here. And don't you dare let those criminals run you off - America needs you to stay and fight.
COMMENT #80 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:51 pm PT...
Dredd,
I wish I could listen to all your stories. I am a fourth generation Canadian and my husband is an eighth, but we are so new to this land.
COMMENT #81 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:52 pm PT...
Dredd,
I wish I could listen to all your stories. I am a fourth generation Canadian and my husband is an eighth, but we are so new to this land.
Whoaaa...weird formatting things going on Brad.
COMMENT #82 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 7:53 pm PT...
OK. I've posted two other comments since #79 and they have vanished into the ozone.
COMMENT #83 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:02 pm PT...
Brad,
My *ozone* postings never did show up.
COMMENT #84 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:16 pm PT...
Lori #78. Okay love, express your opinion if the 911 commission is wrong.
What if it was not done by muslims. The whole Churchill thingy is a strange ruse. No?
Supersoling #77. Yes we have Sequoyah, a legal system that gave women more rights than the "elite" culture in Europe gave their women, and the first native american journalists, and the first native american newspapers.
And now we are bloggers with our online family. Not too bad for earth people.
And I now have three brothers of blood and we both have millions of brothers of heart.
COMMENT #85 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:21 pm PT...
Lori #78. Okay love, express your opinion if the 911 commission is wrong.
What if it was not done by muslims. The whole Churchill thingy is a strange ruse. No?
Supersoling #77. Yes we have Sequoyah, a legal system that gave women more rights than the "elite" culture in Europe gave their women, and the first native american journalists, and the first native american newspapers.
And now we are bloggers with our online family. Not too bad for earth people.
And I now have three brothers of blood and we both have millions of brothers and sisters of heart.
COMMENT #86 [Permalink]
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Peggy
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:22 pm PT...
Thanks, everyone for your thoughts and the references to other stories on the web. You continue to educate me. The 'collective', of which we are a part, will continue to grow, and the solutions to these enormous problems will reach out to meet us, as we reach out towards each other and towards the right path in this world.
COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:30 pm PT...
methinks the viral entities are a workin on our little stage lovies.
I am going to go imbibe in some irish beverages and fondle me lepricons till our bro brad and wp and those of that ilk tame this lovely beast.
Nite ... PS ... brad et al please delete my studdering and fix me sis cheryl's postings when ye can lads.
dredd out ... for now ...
COMMENT #88 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 8:51 pm PT...
I'm back, and this is a wonderful conversation.
Dredd, what a great story. You seem like a brave man and an adventurer.
I have a prticularly sad feeling about the Trail of Tears. It haunts me.
"There comes a time when we stand. We are now verbal, ideological guerillas and I for one will not walk the next trail of a thousand tears."
Beautiful, Dredd.
Supersoling, I agree with you about the innocent victims of 911. I'm sure Churchill does too.
Last night when asked about 911 and the possibility of our government involvement, he didn't deny it. He just said there was no proof. I think he knows.
He basically said that our activities in the world are bringing about our terrible problems now. The only solution is to rectify our behavior. He rails against the hypocrisy we project, and includes all of our leaders in getting us to this point. He suggests hard grass roots work at educating as many people as possible. To help get them to face the stark reality of our predicament, as he says we are now under fascist rule.
And what he says simply is that we have to treat others the way we want to be treated ourselves. He just has a rhetoric that is inflammatory, being an activist and a revolutionary.
I still say that this is important as an example of what is in store for dissenters. If they fail to bring him down, then maybe we can breathe a little easier.
I am already doing that knowing that all you 'ideological guerillas' are here.
COMMENT #89 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 9:11 pm PT...
I'm back and this a great conversation.
What a wonderful story, Dredd. You sound like a brave and adventurous man.
"There comes a time when we stand. We are now verbal, ideological guerillas and I for one will not walk the next trail of a thousand tears."
Beautiful. I feel a lot of sadness around the "trail of Tears". It haunts me.
I agree, Supersoling, about the innocent victims of 911, and I'm sure Churchill does too.
When asked about 911 last night and the possible government involvement, he did not deny it. He just said there is no proof. I think he knows.
He said that the predicament we are in today is the result of our actions. He rails against our hypocrisy. He said all of our leaders have gotten us into this. The only way out is to rectify our behavior. He suggests hard grass roots work in educating people and encouraging them to face the stark reality of our situation. We are now in a fascist state, he says, but there is a strong resistance movement on local levels.
He basically says the we have to treat others the way we want to be treated ourselves. His rhetoric can be inflammatory, since he is an activist and a revolutionary.
I still say this is very important as it is an indication as to where we are going with the suppression of dissent. If he wins, maybe we can breathe a little easier.
I am already doing that, knowing all you 'ideological guerillas' are here.
COMMENT #90 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 9:30 pm PT...
What the &#%#$$$&**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #91 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/12/2005 @ 9:33 pm PT...
I swear there is something to this quantum mechanics stuff. Here we are in a parallel universe. But we brilliant bradbloggers have figured it out.
WE CAN'T BE TRICKED!
COMMENT #92 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/12/2005 @ 11:57 pm PT...
Do you mind if we have a few rich people, Paul? Or do you want them all? You idiot.
COMMENT #93 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/12/2005 @ 11:57 pm PT...
Do you mind if we have a few rich people, Paul? Or do you want them all? You idiot.
COMMENT #94 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/12/2005 @ 11:58 pm PT...
Do you mind if we have a few rich people, Paul? Or do you want them all? You idiot.
COMMENT #95 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/13/2005 @ 10:16 am PT...
Supersoling, Cheryl, Dredd, ALL you wonderful people!
We are all brothers and sisters here, desperately searching for our lost country, our lost souls, our lost identities. Does anyone here watch Link TV? They broadcast "Troubled Waters" and "The McDonald Sisters" today, and I found myself sitting mesmerized and alone, smiling, but with tears streaming so copiously I reminded myself of the giant Alice down the rabbit hole.
COMMENT #96 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 2/13/2005 @ 8:03 pm PT...
Someone dropped in some errant HTML and munged up the comments so they were...well, funky. All there. But funky.
Now fixed. But that explains some of the duplicate posts as folks didn't see their show up. They were there, just at the top of the list! :confused:
COMMENT #97 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/13/2005 @ 9:59 pm PT...
Sorry, Brad. But considering Paul's cognitive problems, constant repetition might be the key to learning. It works for him when Fox News and the great Republican noise machine use it.
COMMENT #98 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/13/2005 @ 10:47 pm PT...
Thanks, Brad!
Please encourage people to find Link TV and also. please, post another Open Thread. We love them!!
COMMENT #99 [Permalink]
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DaWookie
said on 2/14/2005 @ 7:21 am PT...
You people rock and I'm hoping that if I hang out wit' youse, some of it may rub off on me.
I haven't read the churchill article yet, but when I get home I will. What I can say is that the view of America overseas isn't good - and as a limey, I'm meant to be on your side . That most economic blocs worldwide appear to be distancing themsleves from the US (even South American nations), seems to bear that out.
As more nations decide that loans from the IMF/World bank come with too many strings attached, they would rather go without. Relevance? The US treasury owns over 50% of the IMF and so is instrumental in the policies that make poor people worldwide poorer and gives the infrastructure that their taxes paid for to rich barstards on Wall Street.
Let's have some bankers up on "crimes against humanity" when dubya and co go up for war crimes - folks it's time to chlorinate the gene pool.
Keep the faith, brothers and sisters.
COMMENT #100 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/14/2005 @ 7:25 am PT...
Yaaaay Brad! Thought I was going crazy there for a while. Or *crazier*. New thread time. They're great for getting to know each other, eh? (Thought I'd throw a little Canada speak in there for a change.)
COMMENT #101 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/14/2005 @ 9:43 am PT...
Why is everyone mad at the MSM? Duh, I don't know. Could it have something to do with the fact that they aren't reporting the news?
COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 2/14/2005 @ 12:57 pm PT...
Ah, open threads, I LIVE for open threads! The next bit is personal more than political, so for those who choose to read anyway, hope you can follow - I never travel in a straight line to get anywhere
That said...regarding the Trail of Tears..
I can't tell you how it feels every time I run across someone who says, "My ancestors walked the trail.."
I have Creek on my mother's side, and Cherokee on both sides of my family. My ancestors broke from the Trail when it went through Lawrence County in Alabama, and hid in the Warrior Mountains for generations. It's only been in the past couple of years that we were able to find some of the names, because the Cherokee names were forbidden, even at home. Interracial marriages were illegal, so my father's great grandparents were married in secret to keep from losing their home and their land.
There is now an Indian School on the grounds of my old high school in Moulton, and my ancestors on both sides are covered in books that are used as textbooks in classes on local history. It's so odd to me to see family photographs in those books, and to see the names of my ancestors listed there with stories, most of which I never heard - there is so much we weren't told as children because they were ashamed, some are STILL ashamed, of being mixed race. But every time I go to a powwow in the mountains there, in seeking out the older people to talk to, I always meet someone who knows my family, someone who remembers. It's humbling to walk where my grandmother and her mother before her gathered herbs and flowers for food and medicine, to fish the same rivers and play under the same waterfalls as my grandfathers did. It's heart-breaking too, because clear-cut logging has destroyed much of the beauty, and current policies don't protect the Wilderness area as they once did. Maybe that's why I feel not just disgust and sadness, but anger at what is being done to this country in the name of greed. They take from all of us, and they take more than they will ever be able to give back. But their time is growing shorter - we won't let them take it without a fight.
Regarding the condition of our nation now, I still have hope, in spite of all that has happened. The discontent is growing, there is a perceptible rumbling that wasn't there before - forces are gathering, gaining in number and in strength, the rage is almost sentient, and it is growing.
Don't give up, weary patriots - we are making a difference.
COMMENT #103 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 2/14/2005 @ 1:11 pm PT...
AAAACK! I forgot, I wanted to give links in case anyone here is a hiker/backpacker/canoer.
There's a location map to show you how to get there.
Here's a couple of photos, one of the old poplar tree that used to be one of the boundary markers for my great grandfather's land.
COMMENT #104 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/14/2005 @ 1:43 pm PT...
Thanks for the wonderful photos, Kes....#103.
It's not surprising that the good folks here are nature lovers.
I can just imagine us showing photos like these to the great grandchildren saying,"Oh, look at these. This is when we used to have trees."
COMMENT #105 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/14/2005 @ 2:26 pm PT...
Kestral #102
I think you might have been referring to me regarding my ancestors and the trail of tears.
As with Dredd, how fortunate you are to know so much of your history, and thank you for sharing it with us. I feel like it allowed me in a small way, to live vicariously through your beautiful description. I would give anything to know who my Great-Grandmothers Mother was. How she lived, what she knew, how she felt. I wonder if they would accept me and be proud of me. Still lookin' for that damned time machine!
As well, the pictures from Alabama hint at a beautiful place. They remind me of a place I once lived. It was near Cunningham Falls on Catoctin Mountain in Maryland. Camp David is only a couple miles from there, but that's another story.
Anyway, thank you.
Hey Dredd, I think I found another blood brother:)
Peace
COMMENT #106 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/14/2005 @ 2:27 pm PT...
Georgeous, evocative scenery, Kes! I'm not familiar with the area personally, but may it always be protected. That's another thing we Progressives are about. We *mustn't* lose the wilderness or our sense of wilderness. We wouldn't be human any more.
COMMENT #107 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/14/2005 @ 2:35 pm PT...
Messed up your name.. Kestrel
COMMENT #108 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 2/14/2005 @ 2:41 pm PT...
Teresa #104, Supersoling #105, Peg C #106, and anybody else who puts up with my rant - thanks for indulging me, I've been cleaning out old boxes and I'm just a little homesick. Fortunately I've only moved a couple of hours away into Tennessee, and it's almost spring, think it's about time for another weekend in the woods
Okay, shifting gears (I TOLD y'all I live in a tangent world!)
The kid has finished up his school work and gone out to play, so I cranked up the radio. The news went off and what a coincidence, this is what played:
Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.
for the rest of the lyrics:
COMMENT #109 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/14/2005 @ 7:07 pm PT...
Hi Kes,
What a beautiful story. It gave me goosebumps. Your family must have been storytellers. The pictures are gorgeous too. Which one are you? Just one comment. Tree, you call that a tree? Where I come from that's a sapling. Come on over and see sometime.
By the way Brad - new thread! new thread! new thread! Puhleeze!
COMMENT #110 [Permalink]
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Teresa
said on 2/15/2005 @ 3:04 am PT...
O Sweet Kes!
Welcome to Tangentia!
Make yourself at home.
COMMENT #111 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 4:01 am PT...
Yep Kestrel #108, that was sweet!
Up front and in their face. At least they haven't gotten to the music yet.
COMMENT #112 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/15/2005 @ 5:18 am PT...
There is an interesting news item here that is some sort of symbolic representation of our type of blog.
It is a story about a sister and brother who resisted the Hitler NAZI tyranny in the 40's.
They spread leaflets and expressed the dangers the NAZI movement posed in their country. In general the public was asleep around them. The world around them was not.
They were beheaded. Lets hope that does not happen to the brothers and sisters here who see the dangers of the NAZI movement in our governmental structures today, while the general public here sleeps thru it ... but the world around us does not.
COMMENT #113 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 2/15/2005 @ 5:40 am PT...
Cheryl #109 - Yep, great storytellers, I've spent many summer hours sitting under the trees listening to my uncles and my dad and grandfather swap stories, or listening to the women as we sat on the porch and shucked corn or shelled peas. My own garden is much smaller, but we still carry on the traditions
Teresa #110- Tangentia? I helped BUILD the f**kin place *L*
Supersoling #112 - I joke that if I'm disappeared I hope someone remembers to feed my fids (feathered and furry kids), but in reality, I have no doubt that those who post on political forums and blogs are being watched - they'd be foolish NOT to keep an eye on us, our collective power has already been proven. Scary times, these.
And yes, it could prove dangerous for those who are on the front lines in this velvet revolution. It may soon be felt that we need a warning. Most of us are insignificant enough that taking us down wouldn't be effective - it's people like Clint Curtis and Jeff Fisher who need to be especially careful. And Brad, you might take extra caution too - you're one of the ones who has been instrumental in gathering people who noticed the emperor was naked long before the general public.
And we are no longer flying under the radar.
Never underestimate these people, they are dangerous and not exactly stable, and with the ground starting to shake and slide a bit beneath their feet, they may do something desperate.
COMMENT #114 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:12 am PT...
I am reposting Seattle Dan's previous post # 37 here in it's entirety. I missed it before. I like it.
"George Tenet said something to the effect that the "Wild West Days of the Internet must come to an end." Consider that... and BE afraid.
I remember having to go to KPFA to get the real story when Caspar Weinberger was becoming a "made man" at Public Television in SF. The lessons from; Nixon's loss to Kennedy; the role of the media in reporting the Vietnam War to bringing about it's ultimate end; were not lost on the Fifties Fascists.
They can do a lot on the internet with disinformation, obfuscation and old fashioned, illegal dirty tricks. But I believe it won't be enough for them sooner than we all realize. Right now, we serve them as an eye into our homes and our politics... As a resource for propoganda etc... but EVERYTHING is terrorism now... defending a Muslim in court... environmental/consumer/labor/anti-war/journalism and activism.... ALL "terrorism...' hell, Ashcroft quietly declared that sharing anything copyright protected over the internet "funds terrorism..." only six months ago... I just downloaded a hot Leadbelly tune... QUICK, CALL THE BLACK SHIRTS!
These guys can do anything they want and as the previous poster stated... if it isn't on CNN, it doesn't exist in the public mind......
We all clapped like trained seals at the Democratic Convention, while the two Johns talked tough about terror... which pro-war Dem did YOU despise the least?
I'm ranting now... sorry
Centrism is a direct function of Corruption... When the anti-war sentiment of Howard Dean became justification to label him as a "radical leftist" there was only ONE logical conclusion.... ALL those in the DNC and GOP that voted for WAR, are on the corporate TIT... period. We knew that Bush was lying and SO DID THEY.
Dean at the DNC is TOO little and TOO late IMHO.... the PNAC Signatores cannot be stopped mid-project or their house of cards will come tumbling down... they MUST retain power at any cost...
Rove's 40 year plan... I wonder if he got his notions watching Star Trek.... United States of the World with an American at the Helm, boldly going where no man has gone before... yeah buddy."
COMMENT #115 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:16 am PT...
Some support for Professor Churchill right to be wrong is in order. What if he's right?
Read these two pieces.
Ward Churchill Has Rights, and He’s Right
Those on the left who disagree with what Churchill has to say, but won't defend to the death his right to say it, should just move on over to the right. We don't want no hypocrites here. The Republicans have a place for you where you should feel right at home.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire, (Attributed); originated in "The Friends of Voltaire", 1906, by S. G. Tallentyre (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
You either support freedom of speech and academic freedom or you don't. There are no two ways about it. I'm very firm on this point.
COMMENT #116 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:19 am PT...
Sorry, Supersoling.
That should read:
Some support for Professor Churchill's right to be wrong is in order. What if he's right?
and
We don't want no hypocrats here.
COMMENT #117 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:35 am PT...
LGM, I'm a little unclear........
Are you pointing this out to me, and if so, is it because I was conflicted about "how" he said what he said? I agree with him, and even if I didn't, I thought I defended his right to say whatever he wanted. Can you clarify please?
Thanks
COMMENT #118 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:51 am PT...
And....... What does hypocrat mean?
Is it a name for a democrat that disagrees with his/her own, and if so, how does this apply to me?
COMMENT #119 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 2/15/2005 @ 8:05 am PT...
supersoling #105 ... blood bro for sure!
#118 I like they word hypocrat
... and my own hypocrazy ...
COMMENT #120 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 8:50 am PT...
OMG! With all that's going on in the US this is the best that CNN can come up with (with apologies to Peg C)
COMMENT #121 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 9:44 am PT...
Talk about cooked!
COMMENT #122 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 9:51 am PT...
Okay, my link posting skills are failing........
Talk about cooked!
COMMENT #123 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 9:55 am PT...
Allright, don't get the wrong idea, I'm not really frequenting bubba.net! I,m trying to link a pic I found at google.
COMMENT #124 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 10:01 am PT...
Supersoling, I got *page cannot be found*.
COMMENT #125 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 10:14 am PT...
I'm gonna try this one more time 'cause I thought it was real funny re Cheryl's #120. If it doesn't work, oh well.
Talk about cooked!
COMMENT #126 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 10:16 am PT...
Still can't find it! Awww, I wanted to see it.
COMMENT #127 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 10:18 am PT...
Okay, go to google images and type in "Rock Lobster".
It's on the third page, last in the second row.
Damn
COMMENT #128 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 10:31 am PT...
I've definetily got too much time on my hands today:)
Found this at Americablog. This shit is hilarious.
COMMENT #129 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:18 am PT...
This might better clarify my opinion about Ward Churchill's article that got me in a little trouble further upthread.
The writer says..."Churchill's refusal to back down from his position shouldn't be encouraged by thoughtfull opponents of the war. If we mock the hard-headedness of the government in persisting in a policy long ago shown to be bankrupt in morality and prudence, we should also criticize those opponents of the war who make statements that are both morally suspect and intellectually weak even if we support their general position. That does not mean wavering in support for academic freedom and the rights of professors to express their political opinions. It also does not mean deferring to the venomous bullying of the right-wing propaganda machine. It should be an apology not from servility to power, but from deference to truth and largeness of spirit."
This is what I wanted to express all along.
Warning: This article is a bit long.
Peace
COMMENT #130 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:34 am PT...
This particular lobstah feels great pain when dropped head-first into boiling water. As for crustaceans in general - they certainly do have survival mechanisms, and "pain" is a great motivator, but it is doubtful whether their "experience" of it resembles ours. In which case, it's not pain but something else. I wonder whether that "reasoning" is what makes the slaughter of "foreigners" an acceptable practice...
COMMENT #131 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:37 am PT...
Gee...it takes half a lifetime to reach the end of this thread. WE NEED ANOTHER O.T.!!!
COMMENT #132 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:51 am PT...
No, no, Supersoling, no trouble. I wasn't aiming at anyone in particular. Ward is controversial, and we can all find something to disagree with him on at times, which is what makes us think.
Democrat ? Democracy?
Hypocrat? Hypocracy?
COMMENT #133 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:56 am PT...
COMMENT #134 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 12:05 pm PT...
This thread from WRP's blog FYI is pretty damn interesting, too. Most of you are probably familiar with WRP's FYI.
COMMENT #135 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 12:08 pm PT...
LGM #133 -
Does anyone still wonder who really rules in this country? Sickening!
COMMENT #136 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 1:09 pm PT...
LGM #132†
Thanks for squaring that away for me. I still don't get the democracy,hypocracy thing, but maybe that's 'cause I'm home sick today (hence all the useless posts) and my brain is kinda running on fumes right now:)
Regarding #134,
I saw that show Sun. and found myself rooting for Buchanan (can I admit that here?!) as he completely deconstructed Natan Scharansky's neocon justification for preemptive democracy spreading war.
He boiled it all down to one simple, inescapable truth, and that is that, foreign intervention, preemptive war, spreading democracy, the whole "freedom is on the march" crap.......causes terrorism, it doesn't stop terrorism.
So I agree with Will Pitt about being in bizzarro world. Strange and dangerous times.
COMMENT #137 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 2:28 pm PT...
Supersoling - Ha! Ha! That was definitely worth looking for! Let me try.
Ta da! By the way, you DO have too much time on your hands.
COMMENT #138 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 2/15/2005 @ 2:52 pm PT...
Ah yes, I remember, the B52's singing "Rock Lobster" - but I have NEVER seen that pic!!
That's funny!
Didn't really care much for the song, but it, and the band in general, had to be appreciated anyway just for their originality and weirdness.
It was a strange time.
COMMENT #139 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 2/15/2005 @ 3:58 pm PT...
Thanks Cheryl, You're the best:)
COMMENT #140 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 5:13 pm PT...
I'm really getting worried about Freebird. Anyone know anything?
COMMENT #141 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 6:22 pm PT...
Cheryl - Remember months ago when Freebird referred to book/books he was about to publish? I think maybe that's what he's about right now. I just thought of that last night and meant to comment here on it, but forgot.
I hope he touches base again, though, so that we KNOW.
COMMENT #142 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 6:38 pm PT...
On a lighter note: John Cleese has sent an open letter to the American people, a fact I became aware of only because it was forwarded to me by a Dutch friend. It's called A Revocation of Independence and id great for unwinding.
COMMENT #143 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 6:40 pm PT...
It's, Peg, it's!!!
COMMENT #144 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 6:48 pm PT...
Oh, thanks Peg C. Heeeyyyyyy! How'd you do that smilie? I'll stop worrying about Freebird, except, how can we buy his book if we don't know what it is?
I love John Cleese. Do you suppose he'd let us keep Canada if we promise to not play with America anymore? I'm forwarding this to everyone I know.
COMMENT #145 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:05 pm PT...
re #142, 144: I'm sorry to tell you this, but ... That letter was bouncing around the net shortly after the so-called election of 2000. It didn't have John Cleese's name on it back then. Careful: It may be a forgery.
COMMENT #146 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:19 pm PT...
Jeez...oh well. Too late, I sent it to everyone. It's still funny though. Thanks Winter, I think you just burst Peg C's bubble!!
COMMENT #147 [Permalink]
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cheryl
said on 2/15/2005 @ 7:20 pm PT...
Braaaddddd....we really, really, really need a new open thread.
COMMENT #148 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 9:29 pm PT...
My bubble is not burst. The commentary is witty and right on and to the point whether it's a "forgery" or not. WP, we get our jollies where we can find them.
COMMENT #149 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 9:34 pm PT...
And yes, Brad...WE NEED ANOTHER OPEN THREAD OR WE WILL STRANGLE OURSELVES WITH THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #150 [Permalink]
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LGM
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:39 pm PT...
Supersoling,
You coined (misspelled) hypocracy, if I am not mistaken. That's serendipity for you. I said it was appropriate as we are discussing government. Democracy, Plutocracy, Oligarchy... wait a sec. I just love to play with words. Pay no attenton to me.
COMMENT #151 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 2/15/2005 @ 11:56 pm PT...
Go to new open thread...