War on Christmas...are you fucking kidding me?? Doesn't the hype for the "holiday season" start in fucking August? Isn't the whole American economy tied to the day after Thanksgiving...the biggest shopping day of the year? This is unbelievable. Everyfuckingwhere I go I have to sit through mind-numbing tape loops of "Winter Wonderland" and "Jingle Bell Fucking Rock."

But I will say this - keep Christmas the fuck out of schools. No trees, no lights. It's a religious holiday and don't pretend that "popular usage and tradition" make it secular. Enjoy your two weeks off and leave it at that.

War on Christmas. My ass. Yet another distraction from the real war that is actually KILLING people.

Dear Santa, can you bring me some clean water, some medicine, and bring back my mom and sister whom I had to bury last week? If you do, I promise promise promise I'll become a Christian and believe in you too. --signed, an Iraqi orphan.

Perpetual war. That's what the neocons believe in, because without conflict, they have no legitimacy. Thus, we have to suffer this latest crusade, false as it is.
The irony is that many good, honest Christians do not understand that the neocon faithful believe in Machavelli and Leo Strauss as the writers of their holy scripture, not the Bible as written by King James. (have you ever wondered how the Jews and Christians in this Administration seem to get along so well?)
In fact, the neocon faithful are taught that even though Christianity, as well as any other religion, is nonsense, using religion to advance empirilistic causes is an ideal way to control the masses. Further, they teach it should even be used as a disguise for anyone desiring to "Trojan Horse" his way into power. (my analogy)
Note to honest, Jesus-believing Christians: Get out of your Bibles and away from Fox News long enough to research Machavelli and Leo Strauss, the Federalist Society, American Enterprise Institute, and associated links to educate yourselves. That is....if you're not afraid to know the truth.
I guarantee that all the fuzzy motives for the way they've governed......all the seemingly inexplicable things you've wondered about with this Administration, their reasons for ignoring our Constitution when it doesn't suit their purposes, their reasons for building permanent military bases in Iraq rasther than temporary.......all these things will come into sharp focus.

Ok all of you people who hate christmas and are not christians like the jewish and muslim believers.
You want to get rid of christmas and the meaning? Well, how about we get rid of the menorah for the jews since you hate our xmas tree. We'll rename the menorah to the holiday candle holder. And for you Muslims instead of hearing about the RAMADAN Holiday, we'll rename it to the Middle East Holiday. If your offended by my christianity, then I'll be offended by your deep faith thats anti-christian. So whats good for the gander is also good for the goose.

Buh Humbug,

Merry Christmas l

I'm not a Christian and i'm not offended by Christmas, or your christianity. I support your individual right to worship elephant shit if that's waht you want to do. I am however offended by this idiocy perpetrated by the religious right that there is some kind of "war" on Christmas. If there is a war on Christmas it began the day corporate America turned it into the "season that props up the American economy." Who the fuck said anyone wanted to get rid of the meaning of Christmas...who said that? Christmas should be a time of year for Christians to celebrate the birth of their savior and recognize that life is precious and relationships between people are meaningful. Instead we get "buy, buy, buy! you stupid motherfuckers" shoved down our throats for three months. And I was raised a Catholic (escaped with my sanity thank you) so yes I can say what I think Christmas should mean.

And I didn't say anyone should get rid of Christmas trees, I just said they should stay OUT of schools, unless they are religious schools. Same as the menorah and whatever religious symbols Muslims have.

An all new Assclowns of the Week is up. On the spit this week: John Bolton, Chris Matthews, the Bush Administration, Donald Rumsfeld, Duke Cunningham, Tom DeLay, Bill O’Reilly, “former” Diebold smooth operator Keith Long, Joementum Lieberman and WH & Pentagon officials.

Personally? I really like Christmas. It's a happy time of the year, and if I were Jewish, I'd like to think I'd celebrate it anyway, in the secular, wishy-washy Love Your Family And Fellow Man way everyone else does already.

Soul Rebel, your argument is a nonsequitor; it reminds me of a letter to the editor which said "If Al Gore cares so much about uncounted votes, why doesn't he try to count all the voters he allowed to DIE IN THE WOMB?!?" It's taking the argument in a completly unneeded direction to hide the fact that people, by and larger, really don't care that they're being wished to enjoy a specific Sunday that they had no real plans for anyway.

JohnC: likewise non sec. Also, The AFA (and I can't believe I agree with the bastards on this) and whoever else, are traditional conservatives, not Neocons. Try not to tar enemies with the same brush: the Oil Lobby and Pat Robersons and the "Family Values" people and the "Drown Them In A Bathtub" group and the "Turn Saudi Arabia into Nebraska" folks are all different factions, and to say they is the same as talking about the homosexual-feminist-socialist-communist-abortionist-secular-islamofacist, or whatnot. The political spectrum is just that: a rainbow of PACs.

D. Angelic: I've got nothing to say, really. I agree with you that the anti-Christmas campaign is silly, but I feel like you're oversimplfying people's belief. They see (I believe, at least) Christianity being forced on non-Christians; they aren't offended Christianity itself, but the implication that they need to swap.

Nedlum - your comment to me is a nonsequitur. It's not anything to do with people, by and large, and whether they had plans for a Sunday (I'll assume we're talking about Christmas, and one that falls on a Sunday.) What it is about is that the "War on Christmas" is entirely a ridiculous concept, and thus should be ridiculed. Christmas had essentially been taken out in the back alley and flogged to death when it became more about consumerism than it did about goodwill and peace on earth (oh yeah, remember that? peace on earth, how nice. wonder if we'll get any from the modern day Christians. not bloody likely.) So we have, once again, the corporate fascists co-opting the christian theocrats and their blind hypocrisy in a mutant degenerate symbiosis of gluttony and martyrdom (oh woe is me, they're always after us christians!)

How is the letter about Gore in any way related to what I said?

D. Angelic - Are you out of your mind? Or are you just unable to read? Who "hates Christmas"? And who wants to "get rid of christmas and the meaning?"

Are you out of your nut? Or just watching and listening to too much O'Reilly and Friends? Or both?

The good Father O'Buggery says he was "quite a boy".

This is all so pathetic and lame. As a Christian (liberal thank you very much) these people are so shameful and pathetic and embarrassing. A new low and hopefully will make O'Reilly out to be the embarassing tool that he is. And plus everyone knows that the "Daily Show" is COMEDY!

Oh and it's also truly fake and phoney so they can keep their fundie/freeper base "battling" things instead of using their brains and thinking and focusing on all the corruption of the government. They can't let people know that who are their viewers because it'll show that the republicans can't govern and people might vote democratic in 2006 who are faux viewers. These people really do live in a bizare world. Anything to be victim.

The front page of the New York Times had a photo of a Wal-Mart store in Seattle opening at midnight after Thanksgiving Day. This was the beginning of "Black Friday," now widely advertised as the most important shopping day of the year. The photo showed a grown woman barging into the store, grinning from ear to ear, as if she were attending a rock concert or greeting a long-lost loved one.

Commercial exploitation of a holiday (holy day) is the real war on Christmas. The New York Times is just plain stupid for turning the opening of the shopping season into front-page news. On second thought, hey're really more greedy than stupid; advertising by retail stores basically supports the paper. Consumer spending has just reached 76% of gross domestic product, and the Christmas season (holy day season) is the engine that drives the truck. So the paper is serving its own interests by helping its advertisers with free publicity.

Fox Network takes the cake; what they're really saying with this asinine brouhaha is "Department stores and the media they advertise through (who reciprocate for the ads by publicizing the act of shopping as if it were real news) aren't allowing people who worship at Christian churches to bastardize their own religious celebration by themselves." Thus, Wal-Mart is discriminating against Christians by hiring non-Christians to work in their stores in December, and the New York Times is discriminating against Christians by accepting ads from retail stores (owned by non-Christians) and then helping the retailers through their news reporting, the stories themselves being written by non-Christians...further discrimination.

I went to get gas for my grill yesterday, the place ehre I go has a brainwashed lady there

She walks out and says "Merry Christmas"
I say back "Its not Christmas yet, so Happy Holidays"
She says "you know, their trying to take Christmas away from us"
I say "I wouldn't know, I don't watch Fox News, if thats where your hearing that crap, thats just a diversion because the war is going to shit, to keep SOME people pissed off at the muslems, to justify the war in some peoples eyes
Why do you think there doing that?"
She says, I don't know

Would one of you liberals please point out where Santa Claus appears in the bible.

Claus 4:13???

Idiots.

Where does it say in the Bible to go and bomb the shit out of somebody for their natural resources ?

Numbnuts 6:66

"And plus everyone knows that the "Daily Show" is COMEDY! "

LOLOLOHAHAHAHA

GO OVER AND TYPE IN DAILY SHOW IN THE SEARCH ENGINE. COUNT HOW MANY PAGES THE BRAD BLOG COMES UP WITH. ITS ENDLESS! YOU LIBS RELY ON YOUR COMEDY SHOW FOR HARD NEWS

HAHAHAH

You're exactly right, Ricky, and that's why you're the idiot.

Santa Claus has nothing to do with the Bible. He is the product of European folk legends, who didn't become part of American celebrations of Christmas until the second half of the 19th century. The poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" by Clement C. Moore (often mistakenly called "The Night Before Christmas) was the catalyst for the emphasis on Santa Claus.

Then commerical interests (department stores, advertisers, and media) realized Santa Claus could be used as a tool to sell things. So the Christmas season became crucial to the retail economy. Then something else occurred...consumer spending replaced capital spending and government spending as the engine of growth for the economy. Today it stands at an amazing 76% of total G.D.P.

It can't stay there if only Christians buy things in December. Jews, Muslims, and atheists have to spend money too, or the economy will collapse. If the economy collapses, Bush will get the blame. That wouldn't be fair, because he wasn't the one who started the trend, but he's also not going to let it happen...in fact, he's been bragging about the economy lately. Bush is the last person on the planet who wants the American public to stop spending money on Christmas presents...and that includes people who don't celebrate Christmas.

So if the stores are polite to these other people by not saying "Merry Christmas" to them, that has nothing to do with the stealing of Christmas. It started over 100 years ago, and has grown in spite of sermonizing by clergy of all faiths.

Thats right Robert. Any you know what isnt surprising? That you hate an American tradition. You hate everything American(except daily show), like all liberals.

You have any ida how stupid you sound with your Bush/Christmas conspiracy theory? Are you really that dumb? Yes, you are.

Hey pukes - there is no "WAR ON CHRISTMAS" except in the minds of a few mental midgets such as known sex offender bill o'rielly.

I am a liberal and I love Christmas - my friends and family all love Christmas - get a friking life!

Actually - many of the radical modern day right wingers do not believe in the Bible - all of it anyway as many of them don't believe the teachings of the Apostle Paul who promoted peace and turning the other cheek.

In fact, they are digging up all sorts of things now to discredit Paul's teachings because they go absolutely counter to the beliefs of the modern day republican.

Now tell me - who is it that is not a Christian and doesn't believe in Christmas? - All I can say is God save us from the right wing.

RLM #18

You said that the president has "been bragging about the economy lately".

Yep, he was ecstatic about job growth rates, for one month, that did not even come up to the average during Clinton's good years (link here).

He could have started the presstitute conference by saying Ho Ho Hum ... its the season to be in denial.

He could have called on presstitute Jeffie Gannon for a snow job ... and Snottie McClelland could have called on presstitute Jeffie for a ricky ...

... #22 : Armadillious - Too True ( and sad ) ! The FUNNIEST part , IMO , is it took O'Leilly a WHOLE YEAR to think up a ' come-back ' to LAST YEARS Daily Show !!! Workin' on THAT took a LONG time , eh Billy ?!? ...

This is just more proof that people have far too much time on their hands. Let's move on to something of relevance to our lives, like a real war!

Robert Lockwood Mills:

"Commercial exploitation of a holiday (holy day) is the real war on Christmas. "
================================
Exactly right.

For the xtians to ignore such an obvious reality says a lot about their hypocrisy and disingenuousness.

Personally, I despise Christmas. Here's why.. It's NOT about "spreading cheer" or "giving" or "taking care of others", or hell, even "the birth of Christ".. It's about "gimme gimme gimme!!"

See, there are a LOT of people in this country that look at Christmas as a time to "get shit". You have people KILLING THEMSELVES because they can't "give stuff to people that want it", and feel guilty (normally tied to poverty and not being able to provide for your family, and having to look into your children's eyes and say "I'm sorry, we just don't have any money for Christmas presents this year".. kind of PATHETIC that getting "toys" is "so important" to kids, right? that it could cause so much pain and grief to someone knowing they are "letting down" their family?).

Corperate America started a "war on Christmas" when they decided it was a "cash cow" instead of a "religious celebration".. THEY are the ones that turned it into Consumer Central, not worshiping the birth of GOD'S CHILD.. Yet, you MORONS can't see that (well, I honestly believe you DO see that, but it's -not- in your own selfish interests to admit the TRUTH, so you keep lying and distracting.. the reasons the "average person" does this is still beyond me... people like Ricky just confuse the shit out of me.. I guess, it's like the patients running the asylum or something.. it doesn't have to make sense, people are just running around smearing crap on the walls and each other for no reason other than they like the smell and taste of shit, I suppose).

Christmas is a "religious holiday", right? If "Christians" are truely concerned about "the birth of Christ", they need to "support the war on Christmas" and get corperations to stop engaging in the Heresy of putting -anything- before God, right? Get the tree out of the picture (never saw a big green pine in the middle east, the birthplace of Christ, and ceritanly not in the manger scene).. Get Santa out of the picture, he's not part of the religion.. Oh, wait.. That's right.. Christians have been HIJACKING symbols from the heathens for hundreds of years in an attempt to "convert their sinful holidays over to something more Christian"..

What makes me even more sick is, these morons are trying to say that us "non-Christians" just don't like "Christians".. and that's simply not true. I have -no- problem with someone being a Christian.. or Muslim.. or Jew.. or Buddhist.. or -any- religion.. What I (and most of us non-Christians, I'd think) have a PROBLEM with is, the "fanatics" that want to push Christianity down the throats of the rest of us. You have NO RIGHT to do so, yet you keep on trying. You give "good Christians" a very very bad name..

His name should be O'Tool instead of O'Reilly because

he is another Tool for the bush crime family.

Merry X-mass

Mr. O'Reilly;

Why is it whenever I come across an athiest, or anti-Christian and the subject of Christmas comes up, these folks produce blatherings that appear to be rote and rehearsed and are virtually word for word the same garbage? Paganism and anti-Christ makes this old preacher want to vomit.

Keep stopping the spin, and MERRY CHRISTMAS>

Dr. Jim Andrews aka zpadre

Erm.. Dr. (Retarded) James A. Andrews.. Perhaps you could explian YOUR position of the Santa Clausing of the birth of the Son of God? The comercialization and how it's not demeaning to Christ, God, the Holy Spirit or your religion as a whole?

Oh, wait.. you can't.. because the FACTS about Christianity's history is one you can't hide from, can't lie or faith your way out of. Christians, historically, have canabalized every other religious (and pegan) practice they could to try and "make the conversion comfortable" for the "conqured", right?

What SHOULD make an "old preacher want to vomit" is Santa, -every time- you see him. "Christmas trees", which have -nothing- to do with the birth of Christ, God, the Holy Spirit, or anything Christian, should -also- make you vomit. Seeing long lines of children begging some $5/hr costumed front for corperate greed, that should make you vomit too..

Typical fanatic bullshit.. Saying "atiests" are "bad" because they don't believe what you do. If you want to devote your life to "God", then do it.. I don't happen to need that crutch to function or be a decent human being. Fear of eternal burning and threats of damnation aren't required by me to understand that doing good is better than doing bad, simple reason is all I need.. You keep telling those weak-minded savages about burning in hell so you can keep them in check, but quit shitting on the rest of us for being above that need.. ok?

And stop pretending like you are anything more than a leach living on the 10% tithe of your congragation.. nice money making scheme you have going there, no wonder Repugs and Chrisitan leaders have so much in common..

Look at that attack on religion and the rest in this thread. The hate for christians is loud and obvious.
Its this intolerance that the american people are becoming aware of and voting against.

Tolerance is not a liberal trait.

Sorry. I realize, in hindsight, I'd somehow confused your post with JohnC's. I apologise.

This should be renamed "O'Reilly's War on Christmas", because it is entirely a figment of his imagination. He started it, and he is the one whipping his audience into a frenzy over a non-issue at the one time of year when we are all reminded to come together and embrace our fellow man, not condemn him.

Yes, this time of year is special in this way because it's Christmas, one of the big Christian celebrations, but I don't see anything in the Bible that requires stores to exclude a portion of their clientele in their advertising.

The worst part of this non-issue is that O'Reilly is promoting yet another rift in our country, conflating being non-Christian with being Anti-Christmas. Of course these are not the same thing.

Of course it is not Christmas-hating if you are a Christian who believes in being inclusive and polite, demonstrating the highest values of brotherly love (as we are told to do), even with those who do not share your religious beliefs!

Why is O'Reilly fanning the flames of division in this country yet again? Frankly, O'Reilly's War sounds more anti-Christmas to me, being that it is antithetical to the Christmas spirit. I guess O'Reilly is not capable of keeping up the Spirit of Christmas for more than a few mintues at a time. That must be exhausting!

Of course it is not anti-Christmas to support American businesses at their most critical time of year.

I see O'Reilly's War on Christmas as ANTI-BUSINESS, because he advocates boycotting American stores that are not catering to one particular segment of the population at this time of year.

"Look at that attack on religion and the rest in this thread. The hate for christians is loud and obvious.
Its this intolerance that the american people are becoming aware of and voting against.

Tolerance is not a liberal trait."

It's just too damn funny (well, not really.. it's sick and sad, but ironic and funny too...) to see right-wing hate-mongers talk about "Tolerance" when they advocate stripping rights from an entire population for no good reason.

The "attack" isn't on "Christians", it's on "fanatics'", not that I'd suspect a moron like you can see the difference. There are plenty of Christians out there that -support- the Consitution, who understand that religion should not be governmental policy. I have no problems with Christians, I have problems with proselytizing and trying to make official government policy of it. Religion has no place in politics, yet the fanatics want to make them one in the same. Sorry, you don't get more "un-American" than that..

Like a "coffee cup" that can hold milk, juice, beer, and, yes, coffee, the word "christmas" holds many meanings.

And like a psychotic who throws the cup against a wall because the "coffee cup" has milk in it, neoCons rant incessantly about another straw man.

Like many half-baked O'Reilly rants, this one has consensus no where. Unawareness of the lack of unity in the concept of the term is hilarious.

The word "Mass" is strictly a Catholic word and thus, so is "Christ-Mass." (link here, for one radical example). One can link to scores of differing meanings.

And some christians have a totally different take on the meaning, whether catholic or protestant.

The meaning for O'Really is keep em fighting so they will keep sending in the money.

The job growth cited by Bush comes from two sources. Rebuilidng in Louisiana/Mississippi from Hurricane Katrina, and stretching the Chistmas (holiday?) season backward into November. That's only "growth" in the same sense that somebody who overeats and weighs 320 pounds eats more and grows to 350 pounds.

Adding credit card debt and home equity debt is not growth. General Motors is laying off 30,000 people, meanwhile its financing arm is sponsoring a bowl game in Mobile, AL. between two unranked teams. If that's growth, I'm Frosty the Snowman.

Whoa, Christ on a bike! I've been away for awhile and I see things are crazier than ever. Missed y'all.

Well, I wish all you all, friend & foe, a Merry Christmas Happy Hannukah Gleeful Kwaanza Blissful Ramadan Frolicking Festivus Boisterous Bacchanal & one helluva Madcap New Year, regardless of your creed (or lack thereof), orientation, ethnicity or political leanings.
Now will everyone please chug their eggnog & calm down. This damn tree isn't gonna trim itself.

and forgive me if I misspelled anything.

The unholy alliance between Jewish Zionists & Rightwing (so-called) Christians should be looked into further, especially since it supplies most of the support for the Iraq War. It is all based on an ignoramus's literal interpretation of the Bible. Go here for some eye-opening info:
http://judicial-inc.biz/1_master_supreme.htm

http://judicial-inc.biz/...maker_team_kidnapped.htm

(sorry...don't know how to make links!)

Merry Christramadanakwanzannukah, y'all!

Demonstrations against our installed leader in Iraq, more troops killed by bombs, a report critical of our state of defense in this country, investigations into the illegal activity of several right-wingers....

Hmmmm... does anyone else notice this Christmas thing as a lame attempt at diversion?

Savanster #30,

You forgot the fights at Wally World for understocked eletronic supplies, boy, the greed (me first) in this country is totally out of control

I think in Wal Marts case it was seven laptops for five hundred or so customers

Joan #37

Good to see you posting again. We miss Sherry, Peg C, Peggy, and the rest of the old crew.

Merry and happy Everything

Great post #2 on Bushco practices of Machiavellian and Leo Straussian political philosophies. Time for me to post these BBC docs again! :

The Power of Nightmares - a BBC Documentary
(This program reveals the Leo Straussian philosophy of Bushco>Noble Lies)

Each program is 58 minutes long - - Real Video

Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/7qhmt

Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/af2aw

Part 3 http://tinyurl.com/8j27y

I must agree with #27, (I usually do), the whole idea of Christmas has been commercialized. I remember a few years back, spending hour upon hour finding items on grandchildrens 'lists', bouncing from toy store to toy store. I knew I was part of the charade but was forced to do so because those in my family still believe in the concept. I detested every minute of it, the money spent had to be spent equally on all...the arguments that ensued as a result (my husband and myself) did not make me joyous. What was supposed to be fun, turned into a disaster, because this child or that child needed one more 'present' or they would be slighted. The brandname has to be the right brandname, else the 'present' was not the one requested. We ran from stort to store to find the 'right' requested item.

The year of the president selection I took a stand. No more Xmas at my house. No tree, no 'presents'.
Presents turned into money, not a bunch of trinkets made in China. Stress level is gone, no more arguments. (I also remember the big rucus that the 'X'mas abbreviaton caused a few years back).

I no longer 'go shopping' to further the Corporations year end bottom line. I think people that spend 12 hours in the Walmart parking lot are nuts (the night of Thanksgiving into the early morning -in my area, you can call Target and they will give you a 'wake call' in the morning, so you can get to the store on time). The Xmas decorations are for sale before Halloween around here.

I do not understand how Christians can reconcile their belief in the Jesus birth belief and Santa Claus. The majority of houses that are decorated are all about Santa and few show nativity scenes. When I was in that predicament I had a line of demarcation in my house. I no longer need bother with that hypocrisy.

My family had a hard time for the first few years but have finally accepted that I just won't do it anymore. I still see beauty in the yard displays and decorated houses, but then I see beauty in alot of things that I do not emulate. I see the joy in the children's faces as they open presents and anticipate the arrival of Santa, which I would never attempt to try to change. We still 'gift' each child and they can do what they choose to do with their money. (They love getting their 'presents' from us).

Call my Scrooge or call me enlightened. Christmas is a pagen holiday, capitalized on by Corporations, (watched a childrens channel lately...the must have this toy or that toy.. to be a 'real' kid).

This War on Christmas is a Diversion (#40). Keep the people divided on a small issue so the bigger ones, bush's war, is shoved in the background. (So many diversions..so little time). This new War On Xmas is getting more press now than the War in Iraq....unfortunate but true. M4 (the opinions expressed are mine and mine alone)

Everytime george w bush speaks God kills a Kitten.

If you liberals think there is no war on Christmas, Think again!
To all the folks saying Happy Holiday's instead of Merry Christmas, without Christmas, YOU wouldn't HAVE a holiday to be happy about!
I'm sick of this.
Next they'll be taking Gods name off our money.
If you don't like God, get out OF AMERICA!!

NBF: No. You get out.

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
-- Treaty of Tripoli, 1796 (attributed to George Washington)

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law. - Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there is one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded faith. - Thomas Jefferson

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. - Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth. - Thomas Jefferson

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved ... the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
- Thomas Jefferson

Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle. - Thomas Jefferson

Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. - Thomas Jefferson

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes. - Thomas Jefferson

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purposes. - Thomas Jefferson

The priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which they live. - Thomas Jefferson

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them. - Abraham Lincoln (Republican)

The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. - Abraham Lincoln

Keep the church and State forever separate. - Ulysses S. Grant (Republican)

To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life - Theodore Roosevelt (Republican)

If there is one thing for which we stand in this country, it is for complete religious freedom, and it is an emphatic negation of this right to cross-examine a man on his religion before being willing to support him for office. - Theodore Roosevelt

We do not want an official state church. If ninety-nine percent of the population were Catholics, I would still be opposed to it. I do not want civil power combined with religious power. I want to make it clear that I am committed as a matter of deep personal conviction to separation. - John F. Kennedy

In God We Trust was not added to our currency until 1864, in a vain attempt by the Union to prove they were on God's side : "This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed." It was fear that drove the US Congress to approve this. It is fear that drove Congress to include "under God" in the Pledge in 1952. It is fear today that drives religious sentiment. Religion = Fear.

"If you don't like God, get out OF AMERICA!!"

Bunch of fucking inbreeders. No clue about democracy. None, whatsoever.

Here is a last great quote from Teddy Roosevelt, pretty much sums it up:
"The Roman Republic fell, not because of the ambition of Caesar or Augustus, but because it had already long ceased to be in any real sense a republic at all. When the sturdy Roman plebeian, who lived by his own labor, who voted without reward according to his own convictions, and who with his fellows formed in war the terrible Roman legion, had been changed into an idle creature who craved nothing in life save the gratification of a thirst for vapid excitement, who was fed by the state, and who directly or indirectly sold his vote to the highest bidder, then the end of the republic was at hand, and nothing could save it. The laws were the same as they had been, but the people behind the laws had changed, and so the laws counted for nothing."

Hey, if they wanna put up the Pagan 'tree of lights', go ahead. It has nothing to do with jesus. If they wanna kiss under the misltetoe, go ahead. It has nothing to do with jesus. If they wanna hang Holly and Ivy, go ahead. It has nothing to do with jesus.

The only thing original to the belief itself is it's alleged founder, and of course, he wouldn't even recognize the belief any more. All of its doctrine, holidays and celebrations and ritual come from Pagan sources.

So let them put up their trees and beat their chests whilst unwittingly practicing Pagan symbolism of honoring the Solstice. I think it's a hoot!

-recovering catholic.

#47 and #48 Thank You. M4

Greetings, first time here.

First I'll tell you I'm a Christian who has celebrated Christmas since the day I was born.... however my views of it have changed.

Lately I've been in a period of deep study, about just about everything. (Which has only strengthened my faith.) Things have come to my attention that I once ignored, things like all the corruption and deception of America. I believe now in both the Illuminati and the new world order.

The Bible states to pray and celebrate the love of Christ behind closed doors, not to be flashy for the sake of being favored by men. I am not downing other Christians, nor am I saying worshiping in the open (When directed only to Jesus/God) is bad in any respect. What I'm downing is Christmas. It has become,as I now call it openly, "Economy day". The fact of it is that corporations devour consumers for their money. Isn't it obvious? Snow,Santa,Trees,Lights and flashy commercials are not Christ. It is a tradition! Why do you think God/Christ has been taken out of it on TV? Because If it were just for Christians it would lower their overall sales. Thus the "Holidays" can be for everyone. (And I don't think the corporations are thinking 'Holy day' either.) As the Bible states "You can only serve one master: God or Money". Christmas tradition and corporations serve money, and we're being dragged into it.

That, my friend, is the true "war". Fact is we're going to have to worship Christ on that day and reflect the truth of the Bible... It is for us to be with Christ not to force others to be expected to serve God, when they're devoted to money. (Not a pass at atheists here, simply talking about Media exposure.)

Peace to you.

- Nick Johnson.

#50 Nicely said Nick.

Nick, welcome and well stated. Economy Day. I like that. - SR

Here's a thought I had reading through this long lists of comments.

Bill O'Reilly's comments have worked! If they are indeed to draw the attention away from...anything. Look at all of us (myself included) spending so much time spewing our opinions back and forth and getting all worked up. It is almost a self fulfilling prophecy due to the fact that a war of words is beginning from this. What started out as some jokes (Comedy Central is probably not the only ones) has now turned into a war of words. Wars of words can turn into something more serious very easily, as people feel very strongly when they don't believe people are listening to them.

I say, let's get back to celebrating. (period)

Celebrate the good stuff, the people we care about, wish people a good day (however you wish). If someone says merry christmas just get that they are trying to be kind to you. If someone says happy holidays it's the same thing. Either way, be happy and be merry.

Let's all have a good month of December. (Let's not get started on alternate calendars just because I said that )

I'd like to follow that up with more positive energy by all of us in the coming years.

I can tell by how much I've written and how much more I want to write that I'm as caught up in this as everyone else. Merry Happy Christmas and other Holidays to you all. I'll go for peace on earth, along with the rest of you.

So, if O'Reilly is doing the "smokescreen aka War on Christmas", why are any people who are anti-Bush singing THEIR song? Huh?

THe PNAC are working their buts off BEHIND your backs. While you NAG!

Christmas is a traditional holiday in this country, not a political group!

Follow developments from the WAR on Christmas
Here is a journal from a soldier deployed Get Frontline testamonies and hear the real words of those serveing their country in thewar on Xmas
http://www.thexmaswar.blogspot.com

:O :blush: :crazy: :hehe: :blush: :angry: :satisfied: :rolleyes: :plain: