READER COMMENTS ON
"Jonah Goldberg Gloats About LA Times' Robert Scheer Firing"
(26 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 11/17/2005 @ 11:10 pm PT...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 11/18/2005 @ 3:46 am PT...
This development is certainly evidence in support of the notion that:
1) the MSM hass been moving further and further to the right
2) the MSM is rightwing
3) the MSM is generally in bed with the admin in violation of their mission and purpose in america
4) the MSM is a tool for propaganda
5) the MSM newspapers are desperate to regain a loosing game financially
6) the loosing financial game parallels the move to the right
7) they don't get it
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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castro
said on 11/18/2005 @ 4:02 am PT...
oh zat mean old jonah! Did he make fun of witlle Scheer. Scheer's always so "classy" in his writing. I'm sure y'all who enjoyed the bushie drowning joke will love this:
Q: What do you call Max Cleland after he blew himself up with his own grenades?
A: It doesn't matter. He can't come anyway
If the above is wrong(hint: it is) then it's wrong for all not just people you dont like
And don't worry about Scheer he can defend himself just fine.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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LawstSoul
said on 11/18/2005 @ 6:44 am PT...
I was so surprised when I saw Goldberg's picture and how young he is. I thought all of this new generation of the tough, young Republican's were over in Iraq. Maybe the recruiters should forget San Francisco and start mining the right-wing blogs.
"So many minority youths had volunteered that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like myself."
--Tom DeLay, explaining at the 1988 GOP convention why he and vice presidential nominee Dan Quayle did not fight in the Vietnam War.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Jose Chung
said on 11/18/2005 @ 9:02 am PT...
Although obviously Goldberg is a great improvement over Scheer (who I consider a nut), why can't they just publish both? Don't they have enough space?
They also fired their best political cartoonist.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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Proud American Liberal
said on 11/18/2005 @ 9:13 am PT...
First the NYT, then WaPo, now the LAT. All the "Liberal Media Press" going down in right wing flames. :laugh:
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Kevin Mark Smith
said on 11/18/2005 @ 10:14 am PT...
I doubt that anyone supporting your Goldberg blasts would have been happy with any non-progressive/conservative addition to the LA Times editorial staff. For you people it's either left-wing or no wing. You didn't see us conservatives weep and moan when Geraldo joined the crew at Fox News (and we certainly had a right to take issue with him).
Here's a thought: fair and balanced "print" media.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 11/18/2005 @ 10:31 am PT...
For Kevin Mark Smith: Geraldo isn't a left-winger, he's an opportunist who will take any position that gives him an opening to attack somebody. He's a muckraker, not a political ideologue.
When an extreme left-winger is fired and replaced by an extreme right-winger, that isn't fair and balanced, any more than Fox Network is fair and balanced. If a left-winger were replaced by a moderate, or even a moderate conservative (such as a David Brooks), that would be reasonable.
Goldberg says it's O.K. to lie for a good cause. That's tyrannical, because it leaves it up to the liar to decide what a good cause is. Good causes can't be defended by lies, because almost by definition, lies deprive a cause of its moral foundation.
Mussolini would have loved Goldberg. Fair and balanced? No.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 11/18/2005 @ 11:01 am PT...
Jose Chung said:
Although obviously Goldberg is a great improvement over Scheer (who I consider a nut), why can't they just publish both? Don't they have enough space?
You consider him "a nut"? On what basis, Jose? Being right about Bush and the war from Day 1? Or just because marginalizing someone keeps you from having to actually present any evidence for what you'd like to believe?
They also fired their best political cartoonist.
No. They fired their only political cartoonist. Who just happened to have been a wingnut who had been hired several years ago to replace the 3-time Pulitzer Prize winning Paul Conrad --- who was (and is) in fact, a genius.
As to the "fair and balanced" horseshit...LA Times has moved hard to the right long ago. I'd love to see "balance" added to the paper! By adding some more progressive voices! Not less!
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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tompaine
said on 11/18/2005 @ 11:02 am PT...
Did Jonah have a father or did Lucianne just have an immaculate conception?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Savantster
said on 11/18/2005 @ 11:07 am PT...
Guys.. you can't reason with the troll.. ever.. They are using the same old tired bullshit of 'left and right', not "right and wrong".. It's clear (from the tiny bit I've seen, and no refutation from the trolls) that Goldberg is one of those who cares not a wit for truth, and believes Americans are too stupid (all of us, not just some) to make rational informed descisions. See, that's why they rig the voting machines, we can't be trusted to vote "in our best interest"..and they condone lying as policy, it's needed because we're all to small and ignorant to handle the truth.
Again, what these nut-jobs don't get is, it undermines Democracy, undermines the Constitution, unermines the principle of law.. Well, I suppose they -do- get it, they just don't care and feel they are above it all because they are better than the rest of us. Communist-style dictators who ruin countries and destroy the lives of 100s of thousands of their own kind.. kind of like what Saddam did, what we're accusing Putin of trying to do, what many shitty leaders (and their pathetic followers) are doing all over the country.. including the shitty (and corrupt and illegally acting and morally bankrupt) leader in THIS country.
All this article does is lets us folks who want to be informed understand just how hard the un-Amercian right-wing is pushing to steal it all. It just lets us know we're being lied to more and more, and now they are going to stop trying to hide the lies and say "trust us, it's for your own good".. kinda like the serial killer does to the victim before he does despicable acts..
*waves to the trolls*
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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sanitysojourner
said on 11/18/2005 @ 11:38 am PT...
When you call the LA number, also ask for Andreas Martinez, who is the op-ed page editor. I also blasted the publisher. In one case I left a voice mail; in another I spoke to the publisher's secretary.
How dare this Josh punk lie, and how dare the LATimes publish his lies. "WMD's weren't the reason" is what this clown basically says. We all know that to be complete fabrication.
JoshB'gosh calls FDR a bigger liar than dudya, then goes on to say how great bush will be, even greater than FDR. His logic would earn him an "F" in high school journalism (except in Kansas). What an insult to readers. Guess LATimes doesn't want any readers.
NTY (Judy), WaPo (Woody), and now LATimes (Sheer and the wingnut), take it from those of us on the front lines of truth: your MSM demise is self-inflicted. You got cozy and sold your souls to a bunch of immoral greedy falsely pious liars in lieu of doing your jobs of reporting the truth.
The only reason to read MSM is to see what lies this administration is promulgating.
Thank the gods for the bloggers! They/we/us are the only hope for saving our democracy.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 11/18/2005 @ 12:53 pm PT...
By Goldberg's logic, perjury in court is O.K. if the perjurer thinks that lying will achieve a just result. But that is not for the liar to decide...only the jury.
Whatever a perjurer's motive, whatever the perceived just result achieved, it's still perjury.
Bush is still a liar. History, not Goldberg, will decide what a just cause is in Iraq. That the L.A. Times would print this kind of bigoted sophistry as if it were informed opinion is bizarre. That they'd fire somebody in order to bring Goldberg in is worse.
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 11/18/2005 @ 1:21 pm PT...
It looks like its time for Jonah, Kevin and the rest of his stiff-ditto heads to join the war in Iraq!!!!
They need recruiting right away and you're on the list
Amnesty International
THEY'RE WAITING FOR YOU.....AND SO IS YOUR FRIEND DICK CHENEY!!!!!
Doug E.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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KATHLEEN
said on 11/18/2005 @ 1:52 pm PT...
Jonah, what an apt name for a bloated blow hard.
He is lying when he says he thinks its okay to commit perjury. He certainly didn't think so during Clinton's Mid Life monica Mess. Jonah, the junior bloviator was programmed to repeat "Rule of law, Rule of law", like a Stepford son, with a prurient leer on his pimply face.
This kind of double standard is genetic with pompous reactionaries, suffering from ossified mental contortions they confuse with thinking.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 11/18/2005 @ 2:45 pm PT...
LA Times is now officially a RAG.
Jonah G. is practicing the smirk. We've all known kids like him.
Too bad a once respectable newpaper has decided to lower its standards to the level of a high school paper.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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me
said on 11/18/2005 @ 4:11 pm PT...
Time for a massive subscription-cancelling.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 11/18/2005 @ 4:56 pm PT...
Speaking of moonbats. "...if Bush lied...", "occasional duplicity", "great president"
One of the dumbest (of numerous dumb) arguments is the comparing of WWII and Iraq. (All the military personnel wore uniforms, I guess.)
I see the talking point of the moment is "Bush lied but for a good cause." Well, what's the good cause? I'm waiting. I'm also waiting to hear why the Constitution needs to be invalidated, and many other things. "They know better" doesn't cut it with me. I take my citizenship seriously.
Mr. Goldberg's intellect is about a millimeter in depth, and I'm afraid he will take his pea brain "to his grave."
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 11/18/2005 @ 5:05 pm PT...
Excuse me. Jonah Goldberg called it a "just" cause. That will be even more difficult to "explain".
I don't think this "lying for a just cause" spin has much spin.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 11/18/2005 @ 5:22 pm PT...
I see the talking point of the moment is "Bush lied but for a good cause." Well, what's the good cause? I'm waiting.
Of course, I'm waiting for the truth, not a lie.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 11/19/2005 @ 5:53 am PT...
Presumably, the "good cause" is democracy in Iraq.
The underlying theme for neo-cons all along has been that ridding Iraq of (any or all of the following): SADDAM HUSSEIN, TERRORISTS, RELIGIOUS FANATICS, MULLAHS, (NON-EXISTENT) WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND FOES OF ISRAEL WILL MAKE THE MIDDLE EAST A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYONE GOING FORWARD.
Problems: 1) Iraq has no tradition of what the Western world calls democracy. 2) Saddam Hussein was arrested two years ago, and terrorism and religion-based violence have increased, not decreased. 3) Because Saddam Hussein was a secular, not a religous, despot, his removal from power has no real effect on the rivalry between Sunnis and Shiites. 4) Iraqis, not Americans, are the only ones with a legal and moral right to determine what's in their best interests and what isn't. 5) The decision to unilaterally invade and occupy Iraq made no allowance for Iraqi nationalism, in the same way our invasion of Vietnam did not, and we didn't learn from history.
In the final analysis, the "good cause" is nothing more than neo-con theory, and lying in its defense is not only immoral but stupid. The assumption that we'd be greeted as liberators (which would have at least made the cause SEEM good) was disproven from the outset. Iraqis don't believe it, and their opinions are the only ones that matter...not ours.
I'd love to see Jonah Goldberg talk around the fact that Shiites and Sunnis, according to polls, are equally opposed to a U.S. presence in Iraq...at something above 70%. Funny, no? Saddam Hussein was closely allied with the Sunnis (though personally not a religious person); he persecuted Shiites; yet the Shiites hate us just as much as the Sunnis do.
"Good cause" for whom?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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molly
said on 11/19/2005 @ 9:30 am PT...
From where I stand, our brand of democracy isn't something that needs to be spread but covered up like a stinking pile of manure on a hot day. Iraq, despite having one of our personally picked mean dictators was a beacon in the middle east. They had electricity, water, life and women who taught college level and were doctors. Think Cuba. Now women are allowed to finish the 6th grade..minimal electricity and filthy water.Maybe when the madness ends we will lose our fear of communism and have a healthy regard for fascism. The regard I am speaking of, from my personal experience...was the regard I learned way out in the ocean during a storm in a small boat. My regard for the ocean changed that day. I don't think communism would work for us, but our second biggest supplier of money is from a hard line communist country. Bush is over there right now and I'll bet he isn't promoting democracy.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 11/19/2005 @ 10:31 am PT...
OK, let's look into the "just" cause (as Goldberg states it), as in "justice". Then I think we will see the true state of our "principles".
What an apotheosis of hypocrisy.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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lmwilker
said on 11/19/2005 @ 3:31 pm PT...
Maybe the White Feather Campaign should be expanded to those who hired Lucianne's Li'l Darlin'
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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ws
said on 11/20/2005 @ 9:03 am PT...
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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McDog
said on 11/20/2005 @ 5:21 pm PT...
If LA Times readers are serious about expressing their displeasure with the rightward shift of the paper's editorial dept., I'd suggest they take it up with the paper's advertisers, the entities who are in fact funding these decisions. Why continue to support businesses whose advertising dollars pay for this outrage? Make a few of the paper's largest ad buyers nervous that the new editorial policies could negatively impact their own bottom lines --- you might find that starving the beast may be much more effective than kicking it.