Scott Brown's focus on Warren's heritage is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. My maternal Great-Grandmother was full-blooded Choctaw; my Grandfather was Cherokee. I am brown.

I am 1/2 Puerto Rican. I wonder what he would say about how I look. I am probably not dark or swarthy enough for his sensibilities. He is a racist and is using stereotypes to divide people.

I'm 1/16 Hungarian. Does that entitle me to a stubborn streak?

All four of my grandparents were born in eastern Europe, but do I smell like herring? Well, actually, sometimes I do, especially around the High Holy Days. But still, Desi's right, he's a jerk and a racialist. Let's hope his candidacy goes down in flames.

Yeah, but Desi, you look so much like Sitting Bull...I've always thought so..

Me, I'm half Italian, quarter German, eighth Swedish, and an eighth Norwegian.

I tell people this explains why I'm moody, stoic, and depressed; arrogant, presumptuous, and dictatorial; wild, passionate, emotional, and given to light-hearted bursts of fury.

I use it all. And really, I feel all that is manifest.

Scott Brown is a fool. And like most Republicans he's got nothing so he's gotta go full smoke and mirrors, twisting and turning, nonsensical absurdist verbal acrobatics/contortionist. Not that most Democrats are any great shakes, either. But this current truckload of Repugs is really setting new standards for Bullshit Mountaineering.

Warren sounds like the same old same old on foreign policy and Israel but I feel she does have integrity concerning issues in her expertise--consumer advocacy. I'll vote for her.(and hope against hope it gets counted)

Very well said Des!

Beautiful! Thank You Desi!

That's weird stuff to fixate on during a political debate. I've got lots of stuff in my heritage (apparently descended from monkeys way back when, possibly with Neanderthal heritage in the mix), but I keep it simple and call myself "human".

Adam8 Adam8 (unjustly banned and slandered by Rawstory, due to their erroneous software, then banned again by Rawstory's autocratic dear leader Roxanne Cooper for defending myself.)

Oh, very funny, all of you "mutts" of mixed ethnic genetic heritage. How dare you challenge the pure motives of the GOP ethnic purity police.

Adam, I'll only add that to be precise, you are not "descended" from monkeys, you descended from a common ancestor. (Unless, of course, you are claiming to be a modern medical miracle of inter-species, um, "collaboration" --- your mom might not find that very funny but science would be very interested!)

Gotta see this, last night in Philly:

PITCHFORKSTERS & TORCHSTERS drive Pa. Gov. Tom "vote disfranchiser" Corbett out of engagement at Philly art museum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDStR4MEuqw

http://articles.philly.c...llus-shale-death-warrant

Gov Corbett need "sensitivity training" so he could get along better with "the coloreds".

Take a good look at Elisabeth Warren's face I see a Native American Face structure .
NOTICE how high her cheek bones are That is Native American NOT European. Same goes for The Famous Nines she also has Native American heratidge.

Terrific that you're proud, but do you check "Native American" on job apps?

Aren't all Americans born in this country Native Americans? I consider myself a Native American first and a native Texan second. So what?
Do we really know if Elizabeth Warren checked Native American on her job application? That sounds highly unlikely to me.

No. Lina, I do not, and neither did Elizabeth Warren. Says the Boston Globe: "Some said they were concerned that Warren might have claimed undocumented Cherokee ancestry to advance her career as a law professor, a charge Warren and law schools that hired her have denied."

Most people have no clue how tribal membership works in the US. There is a huge difference between being an enrolled member of a tribe vs. claiming American Indian identity vs. claiming American Indian ancestry. Tribal enrollment ("membership") is tightly controlled and easily verifiable, and job and college applications require written documentation or other proof of actual enrollment in a federally-recognized tribe. Cherokee tribal affiliation is not based on blood.

Warren has never claimed to be an enrolled member, she has never tried to become enrolled, and she doesn't even claim American Indian identity --- just heritage. She has never claimed to speak as a Cherokee or on behalf of Cherokee citizens.

How individuals choose to self-identify ethnic heritage is entirely up to them. Genetic ancestry is determined by science, not by politicians like Scott Brown taking veiled political potshots against affirmative action, Lina.

Scott Brown claimed Warren can't possibly be of Native American descent because she doesn't "look" like it. That's just asinine.

Thank You Desi and Elizabeth

... Desi Doyen said...

Adam, I'll only add that to be precise, you are not "descended" from monkeys, you descended from a common ancestor.

Yes, sounds way more accurate and shapes sense into my nonsensical comment. When I was in China, I met some people who told me they were from Sichuan province and I said, "Sichuan? I have relatives in Sichuan." They looked at me with surprise because I really don't look very Chinese, and I said, "Don't you have monkeys in Sichuan province?" They laughed.

Chris Jonsson @#14 said:

"Aren't all Americans born in this country Native Americans? I consider myself a Native American first and a native Texan second. So what?"

No, Chris. "Native American" is a specific legal definition denoting descendants of the indigenous First Americans who settled this continent 20k+ years ago, before sea levels rose and closed off the Bering Strait land bridge --- thousands of years before the arrival of the first white Europeans. It's a shortened version of "Native American Indian" and has specific impact and meaning beyond the common colloquial references that people use in casual conversation. You are an American citizen, and a citizen of the state of Texas, but 'native Texan' is really more of a social construct with no legal application.

Check out this excellent (and funny!) deconstruction from Cracked.com of the 6 Ridiculous Lies You Believe About the Founding of America.

Check out where you fit in to the vast history of human migration at National Geographic's Human Journey, which traces the genetic markers of human migration out of Africa.

Watch the excellent PBS series on the Native American Indian experience, "We Shall Remain", and the episode that tells the story of the Trail of Tears through the lives of those who lived it, including my direct ancestor, Major Ridge.

Great article Desi. My grandmother, my mother's mother, was 1/8 Quebec indigenous, we think Huron. That makes me 1/32 native too! (No, I have no papers.) It's clear to me, that Scott Brown has never bothered to walk over the few blocks from the Capitol Building to the oh-so-amazing National Museum of the American Indian. It's one of the newest museums in DC and he could learn a lot about the history of indigenous people and their descendants. (He could also have a great lunch at the cafe with all the various tribal culinary delights!)

My wife is 1/2 Panamanian - her father is mestizo, dark brown Panamanian descended both from native Panamanians and the Spanish invaders. But we live in WA where the sun don't shine (well, it didn't until all this global warming...got our first rain in 2 months last night!) so she is about as white as you get for most of the year. But when the sun comes out (a la this summer) she browns up like... I don't have a good metaphor here. Plus, her mother is French. Not white Northern French, rather the Mediterranean Southern French. Big difference in phenotype there. And my kids are crazy white too because I am all Celtic. I'm so white I can't tan at all (I burn, I peel, and I'm white again.) but they are 1/4 Panamanian.

Nobody would ever know unless we said. And we don't because we don't need the various assistances/special status that should go to those who truly need it. Got nothing to do with pride, as we are fiercely proud of our varied heritage. I have Celtic tattoos, and my wife has Panamanian mola tattoos. But with us both being public school teachers, we know that more recent immigrants of a non-white phenotype are at a serious disadvantage in this majority white country.

Anyway, I guess my only point is that Scott Brown is a fucking idiot. Is that enough?

Also, can't wait to see Greg Palast at Seattle Town Hall next week. Support him PLEASE by getting his new book Billionaires & Ballot Bandits, which I'm sure has Brad's full approval.

Desi, I'm not defending Scott Brown, but I'm also not defending Elizabeth Warren, so you'll forgive me if I don't take any politician's word at face value!

In this case, she has been very clear in numerous media sources that her connection with Cherokee and Delaware tribes is non-existent except for the long-dead ancestors. Maybe it's true that she listed herself in a directory of minority law school professors to meet others. Maybe it's legally ok for Harvard to have touted her as a minority in federally mandated diversity statistics and in print (http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-25/news/31852969_1_harvard-law-school-answer-elizabeth-warren). But both actions are problematic, particularly in what they mean to both students and professors who have had to struggle against prejudice and stereotypes not faced by people who look like you and Elizabeth Warren.

Lina - "Problematic" for whom? Are you suggesting that innocuous references to her ancestry are to blame for difficulties experienced by those who have "had to struggle against prejudice and stereotypes not faced" by people who look like Warren or me? As you acknowledge, "she has been very clear in numerous media sources that her connection with Cherokee and Delaware tribes is non-existent except for the long-dead ancestors." So should we not talk about or otherwise acknowledge our ancestors?

Desi

Your love of the land. It makes sense. Native Americans have respect for our Mother. And being a descendant of a chief. Powerful.

Respect

No, Desi, I'm suggesting that Harvard touting her as a minority hire instead of hiring a minority is problematic and I'm saying that by listing herself as a Native American professor sets up a situation where students expecting to find a mentor who "gets it" instead find someone who has zero connection is problematic.

Sen Brown: what do you have to say about favoring tax breaks for the rich who don't need it and aren't creating jobs with the tax cuts they already got, and not fighting for affordable education for American kids which could be considered a national security issue because other countries are surpassing us?

BROWN: SHE CHECKED THE CHEROKEE BOX

Lina, it sounds like your problem is with Harvard.

The only people who wre problematic in this matter was Harvard, since Warren had native American roots according to family lore,it was perfectly acceptable to note this in a directory, she didn't use it to get into schools, she didn't use it to get jobs, she had several prof jobs before she ever listed herself...Harvard shouldn't have touted her as a minority hire, as clealry she was not discrimnated due to coler, wthnicity and had not sufferd for her distant native american ancestry, but that wasn't Warren call that Havard would do that, not her intention when listing herself, Harvard just used this family lore connection Warren wasn't ashamed of, to cover their butts after the fact they got called on their horrid minority hiringg record. Would it be better for indigenous people if all people with part their ancestry being indigenous kept that quiet and never mentioned it? I am sympathetic to people who are 1/32 etc not needing same considerations as people are visibly or notably of a discriminated against ethnic or racial minority, but should they hide their Indian roots if they are less than1/8? 1/4? Or look white? I don't think their is anything wrong, in fact I think it's a good thing, people are now proud of the indigenous ancestors...but for people who never had that fact be a point of discrimination in their lives due to looks, due to geography/culture of ther upbringing (mostly like other white people), they shouldn't try to gain advantage from it...to me Warren was consistent with this, she didn't use indigenous background for advancement as she didn't suffer from discrimination based on it but she didn't hide it either. Only Harvard tried to use it t their advantage...

Btw, I doubt any indigenous student would automatically be fooled into assuming Warren "got" them simply by the one lisiting. Many people claiming nativ American roots have not had thoroughly Native American experiences growing up. I don't think balck students even assume obviously back professors necessarily will automatically "get" them, as black professors even claim they have never personally experienced racism! And especially a professor truthfully saying they have African American roots but who looks very white, doubt a black student would be thrown off and resentful that professor truthfully reported thie roots.

I'll bet if you photoshop LIz with long black hair and a native American complexion...

Pocahontas will jumo out at you.

My dad was full German, which makes me half-German.

He had to fight and kill Germans in WWII. I don't think he was happy to kill anybody, but he was proud to be an American at the time.

I'm not so sure what he would think today.

I'm not too good at math, but this is all about division.

And we all have African ancestry even though it isn't apparent superficially in much of the population.

I am proud to announce that I am an all "American Mongrel"...And proud of it...Racism is one of those undercurrents within our society that has been shoved under to rug for too long. And now we are seeing it rear its ugly head...From the top of the GOP ticket to the Base. If one sits back and looks at the over all picture...you could see the whole republican playbook, in play once again, over the past 18 months. It is deja vu all over again. 2012 republican strategery at its finest.

Scott Brown is soooooooo white...ooohhhooo....say it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI8G3UefIkU

What a superficial, nothing substantial to say jerk!

Brown just made a HUGE ass of himself.

Example one: President Barack Obama has a WHITE MOTHER, not a white relative generations back.

Where is Brown calling the President a liar about who his mother was?

Thanks for an interesting discussion, y'all.

Also --- well said, Larry @ #31!

By the way, when Brown first brought this up last spring --- amplified by Boston's rightwing media (The Herald and talk radio and sports talk) --- the respected New England Historic Genealogical Society verified Warren's ancestry. But then breitbart.com pulled out their own "expert" to counter every claim and keep the story alive.

As Desi finally got Lina to confess, the only potential gray area in this is Harvard's, not Warren's. So there was no reason to waste even 5 seconds at a debate on the topic. But it's all Brown has got --- he's not going to talk about his voting record, after all.

I'm 1/2 German and I don't look like Hitler at all. Scott is an idiot.

If it says scott brown (r-MA) FLUSH IT DOWN !

I'm half Russian & half Italian, my wife is full German. So our kids are Russian/Italian/German, wasn't the the "axis of evil" in WWII??? YIKES

Lina: Excuse me, but I don't see how giving recognition of one's heritage is inappropriate under any circumstances.

Are you saying that Warren should have denied her heritage because, in the racist mind of Scott Brown, she doesn't look like a Native American?

Brown is playing the race card in order to seek a white, working class backlash against affirmative action --- even though there is no evidence --- none --- that Warren ever utilized her heritage as a means to get ahead in either her education or employment.

The Boston Globe article states [emphasis added] that “documents suggest for the first time that either Warren or a Harvard administrator classified her repeatedly as Native American in papers prepared for the government in a way that apparently did not adhere to federal diversity guidelines…

“The administrator responsible for Harvard Law School’s faculty diversity statistics from 1996 to 2004, the period in question, was Alan Ray, a citizen of the Cherokee Nation who, like Warren, has fair skin, blue eyes, and Oklahoma roots.”

I suppose in Scott Brown's world, Alan Ray, a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, does not qualify as a Native American because he "has fair skin, blue eyes."

I can understand how Scott Brown, as he struggles to represent the interests of the wealthiest one percent, would prefer to discuss this non-issue. But I also suspect that the citizens of MA will see through it.

Here is an ad Warren released after Brown followed up his failed debate performance with another racist ad.

Just returned from a volunteer week on Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. Perhaps Brown should devote himself to correcting the wrongs done to the Native American people by the US Gov. The degree of poverty and other social ills among our native peoples is deplorable and a national disgrace. Their situation is not even on the radar screen in this country except among a few ordinary citizens. We can do better than having a senator attack his opponent based on her heritage. He should be ashamed.

Loved Elizabeth Warren's new ad! Hey Senator Brown, none of us MA voters care about Elizabeth's heritage, we care about where she stands on important issues. Move on all ready, is that all you've got???

Scott Brown gets a pass on Combat Duty! Doesn't volunteer for active duty. What character! How did he get a promotion to Colonel? I guess being a JAG gets you a pass from combat service but gets you a promotion. What was his relationship with General Carter? Did the General protect him from serving in combat because he the Senator knew something? His over the top attacks on Elizabeth Warren shows he is hiding something.

I am of Native American heritage and I am brown. Both maternal grandparents were Catawba and Saponi, and my Mom looked like Lena Horne. I have the features of my Mom and Dad, but my skin color is a mix of both. I guess Scott Brown would know what I am. I am also a relative of Congressman Charlie Rangel, I guess Scott Brown would really be confused as to what he should call me. Research my cousin's work, Steven Pony Hill, as well as the work of my cousin Christopher Scott Sewell.