READER COMMENTS ON
"How the Mess Was Spun..."
(59 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 1:35 pm PT...
Hannity is such a tool I can't believe it....He looks like such a moron up there I can't understand why anyone watches Fox anyways!!!!
Howard Dean totally cleaned his clock, I sat up late just to watch part of the Fox broadcast to see him stick young-swank Hannity in the chops....
Dean really gave it to that cretin Colmes, too!
Did anyone watch the whole thing!?!? He makes all us progressives proud of our heritage!!! He singled out, point blank, that it was the Bush admin's fault for making the perception of racism. He said that had we gotten a better response, and not had folks on the ground eating cake while thousands of black poor were drowning, the divide might not have happened.
He also talked about the reform programs we can do and need to commit to, to stop the racial-class propaganda that Limbaugh lives on. He stated that "welfare" is the uncommon meme thats gotten the GOP trapped.
We need to promote FREE CLASSFARE, meaning equal representation regardless of race and class. In other words not belly dry up assistance programs, but common raise of the minimum wage and anti-class discrimination. No more corporate stooges to prey on the disenfranchised, we need progressives who share common concern regardless of race or income!!!!
Call it the "New Class Reform" act. Yes! Throw out the voting machines and make way for equal-class representation!
Doug E.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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onyx
said on 9/14/2005 @ 1:35 pm PT...
Even if N.O. could get 22,000 people rounded up and on the buses with 24 hours notice where were they going to take them! Just drive north and hope someone figured it out. They had a hard enough time getting people to come to the Superdome until the flooding started. You can't ignore human nature - you've got take it into consideration. Its hard to move people.
Who was going to feed them, attend to their medical needs, put roofs over their heads. The Astrodome can't even take that many. I guess someone should have had the foresight to make such a plan, but Nagin's plan could have worked pretty well.
I think it was fairly reasonable to set up the Superdome as short term refuge and encourage people to get their asses there. They were more likely to get to the Superdome than get on bus to nowhere. If the levies didn't break then they'd all go home in 24 hrs. If the levies did break they'd be able to evacuate it in the 48 - 60 hours FEMA had promised it would take to come to the rescue.
It took them 140 hours to do anything at all! And then half of what they did do was counterproductive.
If FEMA had been there in 48 hours and started to evacuate the Superdome and Convention Center Nagin's decision would have looked like the right one.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 1:45 pm PT...
Onyx
That's what I'm saying, the GOP stooge Nagin and Baker's right-wing government are the main problem and promote un-equal class division!
Dean's been saying the same thing, and its time to jump on the message!!!!
THE PROBLEM ISN'T THE LOCALS, THE PROBLEM IS UN-EQUAL CLASS REPRESENTATION!!!
Bingo, ever been to the Greyhound bus-stops? Almost all of them are filthy labrynths of vulgar language and drugs. They expect citizens to enjoy being at these places?!?? Give me a fucking break!!!
Even if the poor, the black people COULD AFFORD to get on these buses and get out of the city....why the hell would they want to walk through that crime infested rat nest of class warfare?!??
Upper class citizens actually snub their noses at them!!! When going to the station!!! This brings on gang violence and drugs. WTF IS THEIR PROBLEM!???
In a way, the GOP's way of resolving things has been the bullshit meme of blame the lower class for all the upper or rich's problems. Well, this shows it has created civil war in bold detail.
The way to correct this is simple and pointed, throw out unequal class representation in the local and federal. Replace the GOP stooges like Nagin, Baker with progressive democrats and libertarians.
Then clean up the bus stations, raise the city tax limit, get rid of the welfare tax-reform act which is GOP controlled and then throw out the corporate giveaway cuts.
Representation starts at the base.....rid LA's cities of the voting machines and promote anti-class discrimination laws.
Doug E
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 2:31 pm PT...
Has anybody thought about all the brand new cars at the car lots that could have been put into service (and possibly saved) by driving out people from the affected area? (Thanks to my husband & his good thinking.) Wonder how many Dealerships are Republican-owned???
What about the fact that Allbaugh & Brownie had effectively cut the head off FEMA when it became Dept. of Homeland (In)Security ... headed by a horse's ass and responding like a chicken with it's head cut off ... the New & Improved emergency organization that is horrifyingly inept.
My next few remarks were gathered from this very important 17-page article that appeared in the LA Times on September 11, 2005:
The Response --- Put to Katrina's Test
[snip] ... FEMA was especially short of helicopters from the outset. It was forced to concentrate on rescue missions and gave short shrift to ferrying supplies to trapped evacuees.
• Coordination with private relief agencies broke down and led to maddening delays. Water, food, clothing and medical supplies backed up in distant warehouses.
More than 50 civilian aircraft responding to separate requests for evacuations from hospitals and other agencies swarmed to the area a day after Katrina hit, but FEMA blocked their efforts. Aircraft operators complained that FEMA waved off a number of evacuation attempts, saying the rescuers were not authorized. "Many planes and helicopters simply sat idle," said Thomas Judge, president of the Assn. of Air Medical Services. [snip]
2 days before the hurricane hit (on Sat. 8/26/05) ---
[snip] President Bush activated the National Response Plan on Saturday, Aug. 27, two days before the hurricane struck, when he declared a federal emergency in Louisiana. Under the plan, this made the Department of Homeland Security "responsible for coordinating federal resources utilized in response to major disasters."
... As the emergency response floundered on television screens around the world, some White House aides suggested state and local officials were to blame. By then, however, it had become a federal problem.
"The moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility," said Jane Bullock, who spent 22 years at FEMA under presidents of both parties.
... At FEMA headquarters, longtime disaster specialists also watched the satellite images of Katrina. Alarm grew.
"This gigantic hurricane is headed like a bullet right toward New Orleans, and we wondered why isn't there a more organized effort to get people out of the city," said Leo V. Bosner, an emergency management specialist with FEMA and an employee union president. "We're saying, 'What's the plan? What's happening?' "
In particular, Bosner said he and colleagues wondered why more buses weren't being provided from nearby states and why the federal government wasn't pushing the regional officials to get people out sooner. [snip]
The Red Cross was sitting on go ready to react with the 1st responders to get help & supplies to the victims, but Federal and State Officials "blocked the Red Cross from taking food and other supplies to stranded victims."
[snip] Devorah Goldburg, a spokeswoman for the relief agency, said Louisiana officials argued that an influx of food and other supplies might make it harder to persuade residents to evacuate. "Every day we were in touch with state officials offering to go in," she said. "They said they don't want us in there."
... On the day the levees failed, the FEMA chief issued a news release urging fire and emergency services departments outside the area "not to respond" to calls for help from counties and states affected by the hurricane "without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements." [snip]
AND --- Thanks to the F**kers, this:
[snip] After the levees broke, governors from around the country pledged their National Guard troops for the relief mission, yet their efforts were occasionally ensnared in bureaucracy.
On Aug. 29, when Katrina hit, Richardson, the New Mexico governor, telephoned Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco, and asked if there was anything his state could provide.
"She said, 'We need truck drivers and National Guard,' " Richardson recalled. He told her, "I'll get moving on it."
Richardson said he immediately authorized his Guard commander to send 200 troops to Louisiana. Then "red tape and paperwork" intervened, Richardson said. Instead of hours, it took four days.
"My National Guard commander … tried to get approval from the Guard bureau in Washington, and it wasn't until Thursday night that he got it," he said. "They kept saying they needed a definition of the mission in their orders. I said how about, 'Helping people.' I kept bumping into my National Guard commander and he kept saying, 'No, they haven't left yet.' "
A spokesman for the National Guard bureau in Washington declined to address Richardson's allegation. He said there are specific, formal procedures in place that governors have to follow to send National Guard troops to other states. [snip]
HELLOOOOO!!!!! All these people DIED or SUFFERED because somebody had to do bullshit PAPERWORK????? People --- this is NOT ACCEPTABLE.
AND ON AND ON ... I hope everybody will read this article - a clear indictment of the government.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 3:46 pm PT...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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GreyHawk
said on 9/14/2005 @ 4:40 pm PT...
Anybody know if this was brought in to help find survivors of Katrina, and why or why not?
ARIES - Airborne Rapid Imaging for Emergency Support
ARIES: Making Rapid Response a Reality
New combination of technologies has revolutionary impact
Anne Miglarese, CEO, President
Terry Busch, ARIES Program Manager
EarthData, Frederick, Md.
www.earthdata.com
Airborne Rapid Imaging for Emergency Support (ARIES) is a response and recovery mapping and communications system inspired by emotion in the most trying of times. Having managed the collection, processing and production of digital orthophotography, LiDAR (Light Detection and Ranging) and thermal data to support first-responders in the rubble of the September 11 World Trade Center attacks, EarthData Chair Bryan Logan recalled, “Deployment in 12 hours and map production in 10 hours set industry records, but the haunting sight of first-responders using a whiteboard to map real-time conditions at Ground Zero made it obvious that there had to be a faster solution.”
To make a difference, EarthData envisioned melding existing mapping, downlink, and communications technologies into one system that would dramatically reduce the total time from system deployment through data collection and final data delivery. At Ground Zero, mountains of rubble, underground fires and totally unpredictable conditions redirected rescue and recovery operations constantly, confirming that the landmark data-production time of 10 hours alone was far too long to be of maximum utility to the responders. From lessons learned from this national tragedy, EarthData set a goal of developing a mobile system that would deploy to anywhere in the United States within six hours, collect data from multiple sensors simultaneously, then put data in first-responders’ hands within three hours of acquisition - a monumental task.
From Concept to Reality
Through a grant from the Department of Homeland Security, Office for Domestic Preparedness, EarthData was able to develop the system to make the dream a reality.
[...] (continued at link above)
...billions of dollars into all sorts of glitsy tech - do we have anything to show for it, or do we need to pay to use the stuff, too?
The above is but one example of a promising technology. I hope it was put to use.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 4:54 pm PT...
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 5:15 pm PT...
Doug - I found this:
thomas.loc.gov
H.RES.375
Title: Requesting the President and directing the Secretary of State to transmit to the House of Representatives not later than 14 days after the date of the adoption of this resolution all information in the possession of the President and the Secretary of State relating to communication with officials of the United Kingdom between January 1, 2002, and October 16, 2002, relating to the policy of the United States with respect to Iraq.
Sponsor: Rep Lee, Barbara [CA-9] (introduced 7/21/2005) Cosponsors (82)
Latest Major Action: 7/21/2005 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on International Relations.
Was there a vote yet?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 5:29 pm PT...
Kira
It was already voted on and seen on C-SPAN, Conyers and everyone blogged it too putting it into the record.
And it shows up NOWHERE in the 109th congress 1st session, WHY? It doesn't even show the vote at all--whether it failed or passed!
Does this make sense to anyone!??? The website won't even tell you who voted against it.....that is just....wtf..
Doug E.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 5:42 pm PT...
Don't know why it's not showing up on 109th congress page.
www.afterdowningstreet.org
H Res 375 Generates Debate, Unites Dems, Fails by 1 Vote
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2005-09-13 20:41. Congress
Several Democrats, including Lantos, spoke in support of H Res 375 (82 cosponsors), as did one Republican, Leach. Hyde put the vote off until 2 p.m. ET.
Debate shifted to a very similar resolution from Rep. Hinchey (H Res 408) (0 cosponsors), and so continued to focus on the Downing Street Minutes.
At 12:25, Hyde shifted the debate to H Res 419 (20 cosponsors), Rep. Holt's Resolution of Inquiry into the exposure of Valerie Plame's identity.
At 12:39 Rep. Barbara Lee spoke about the erosion of democracy and about the obligation of a committee that authorized war to provide the public with the reasons the nation went to war, the reasons our resources (over $300 billion)were spent on that war and unavailable for this country.
At 12:45 Hyde recessed until 2 p.m., at which time the committee will vote on all three resolutions.
Hyde noted that two members are absent: Royce and Payne (a likely no and yes vote, respectively).
They voted at 2 p.m. and we lost by 1 vote, with a few members of each party absent, one Republican (Leach) voting with all the Dems, and one Republican (Paul) voting "present." We came very close, created a debate, and actually saw the Democrats unite and stand for something.
On to the next one!
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 5:46 pm PT...
The whole thing stinks Kira, it smells like another coverup...
Henry Hyde is nothing less than a Tom Delay crony. I didn't expect him to vote for it, but I definitely didn't expect him to strong-arm people into voting against it!
This was totally pathetic....the voting machines in that whole area need to be trashed. The record of the votes isn't even shown, it must be that embarassing to the GOP......Someone's got to get the list of names who voted on this Res!!!
Doug E.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 5:50 pm PT...
What th' hell was wrong with Paul?
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 6:07 pm PT...
Senate Kills Bid for Katrina Commission
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press WriterWed Sep 14, 3:36 PM ET
Senate Republicans on Wednesday scuttled an attempt by Sen. Hillary Clinton to establish an independent, bipartisan panel patterned after the 9/11 Commission to investigate what went wrong with federal, state and local governments' response to Hurricane Katrina.
The New York Democrat's bid to establish the panel — which would have also made recommendations on how to improve the government's disaster response apparatus — failed to win the two-thirds majority needed to overcome procedural hurdles. Clinton got only 44 votes, all from Democrats and independent Sen. Jim Jeffords of Vermont. Fifty-four Republicans all voted no.
"Just as with 9/11, we did not get to the point where we believed we understood what happened until an independent investigation was conducted," Clinton said.
The Senate vote is hardly likely to be the last word on whether to create an independent commission or as an alternative a special congressional committee to investigate Katrina. The 9/11 Commission was established in 2002 after resistance from Republicans and the White House, and opinion polls show the public strongly supports the idea. In a CNN/USA Today Gallup poll taken Sept. 8-11, 70 percent of those surveyed supported an independent panel to investigate the government's response to Katrina. Only 29 percent were opposed. **MORE**
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 6:12 pm PT...
Where is the Senate roll call vote also, Kira?
We want the names of every senator who voted against that Res. I especially would love it if Zell Miller is included....
Doug E.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Clarence (24.237.149.54)
said on 9/14/2005 @ 6:32 pm PT...
{ed note: Comment by "Clarence" aka Ken/Karla Stout/Buckshot/Pete/Kallie/etc. deleted for repeated and flagrant inability to follow the few rules we have here. Including not posting under different names and not insulting other commenters. And not acting like a 2 year old.}
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 6:43 pm PT...
Clarence, sorry you've been brainwashed but those so called lies really happened and you may have to observe.....
The Red Cross coverup
Need I also mention the plain spoken facts of how you were wrong on virtually everything else?
The nursing home companies just got indicted.....The so called "injections" were a real event that took place, and your hands are now more bloody as a result.
Doug E.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Gryphen
said on 9/14/2005 @ 7:09 pm PT...
This is why the Neo-cons hate Liberals so much. We are way too hung up on the truth.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 9/14/2005 @ 7:27 pm PT...
re #17 from Gryphen:
Yes, exactly. The truth will set us free ... but they don't want us to be free!
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 8:39 pm PT...
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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NWA
said on 9/14/2005 @ 9:31 pm PT...
See what happens when you're lazy. You drown. They had more than enough warning to get out of dodge, but they played mule. Now since they’re so use to handouts, they expect the government to do everything for them.
If I were in the middle of that mess, I wouldn’t expect anything from the government. I was told already to leave. Do you know why the levees weren’t updated, it’s because the environmentalists, in support of the wetlands, blocked the levee project from being finished.
Liberals cause so many problems and when the levee breaks, they blame everyone but themselves.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 9/14/2005 @ 9:35 pm PT...
re #20: It was probably liberals who blew up the levees, right?
sorry, NWA, but your lies are too transparent ... you'd better get some new talking points pretty soon.
While you're at it, try to find out why everyone who dares to speak the truth is called "a liberal" ... when it's quite clear that some of us are dyed-in-the-wool conservatives!!
oops! I wasn't supposed to say that, was I?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Doug Eldritch
said on 9/14/2005 @ 10:02 pm PT...
Yeah sure as your mother who got fucked over DWA, go smoke your bullshit in another corner.
Nobody cares and you don't have any liberals to blame except now for yourselves.
Doug E.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/14/2005 @ 11:05 pm PT...
NWA, you nitwit. Too bad you have so much wetland between your ears. Louisiana could use it --- since the petroleum corporations are responsible for sucking the life out of theirs. Don't you ever read & study?
Here's an article that 'splains things about wetlands:
The Louisiana bayou, hardest working marsh in America, is in big trouble—with dire consequences for residents, the nearby city of New Orleans, and seafood lovers everywhere.
(Article from 2004)
[snip] Climatologists predict that powerful storms may occur more frequently this century, while rising sea level from global warming is putting low-lying coasts at greater risk. "It's not if it will happen," says University of New Orleans geologist Shea Penland. "It's when." [And now we know WHEN!]
Yet just as the risks of a killer storm are rising, the city's natural defenses are quietly melting away. From the Mississippi border to the Texas state line, Louisiana is losing its protective fringe of marshes and barrier islands faster than any place in the U.S. Since the 1930s some 1,900 square miles (4,900 square kilometers) of coastal wetlands—a swath nearly the size of Delaware or almost twice that of Luxembourg—have vanished beneath the Gulf of Mexico. Despite nearly half a billion dollars spent over the past decade to stem the tide, the state continues to lose about 25 square miles (65 square kilometers) of land each year, roughly one acre every 33 minutes.
… A cocktail of natural and human factors is putting the coast under. Delta soils naturally compact and sink over time, eventually giving way to open water unless fresh layers of sediment offset the subsidence. The Mississippi's spring floods once maintained that balance, but the annual deluges were often disastrous. After a devastating flood in 1927, levees were raised along the river and lined with concrete, effectively funneling the marsh-building sediments to the deep waters of the Gulf. Since the 1950s engineers have also cut more than 8,000 miles (13,000 kilometers) of canals through the marsh for petroleum exploration and ship traffic. These new ditches sliced the wetlands into a giant jigsaw puzzle, increasing erosion and allowing lethal doses of salt water to infiltrate brackish and freshwater marshes.
While such loss hits every bayou-loving Louisianan right in the heart, it also hits nearly every U.S. citizen right in the wallet. Louisiana has the hardest working wetlands in America, a watery world of bayous, marshes, and barrier islands that either produces or transports more than a third of the nation's oil and a quarter of its natural gas, and ranks second only to Alaska in commercial fish landings. As wildlife habitat, it makes Florida's Everglades look like a petting zoo by comparison.
Such high stakes compelled a host of unlikely bedfellows—scientists, environmental groups, business leaders, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers—to forge a radical plan to protect what's left. Drafted by the Corps a year ago, the Louisiana Coastal Area (LCA) project was initially estimated to cost up to 14 billion dollars over 30 years, almost twice as much as current efforts to save the Everglades. But the Bush Administration balked at the price tag, supporting instead a plan to spend up to two billion dollars over the next ten years to fund the most promising projects. Either way, Congress must authorize the money before work can begin. [snip]
"We'll go to war and spend billions of dollars to protect oil and gas interests overseas,"
Breaux says as he drives his truck past platform anchors the size of two-story houses. "But here at home?" He shrugs. "Where else you gonna drill? Not California. Not Florida. Not in ANWR. In Louisiana. I'm third generation in the oil field. We're not afraid of the industry. We just want the infrastructure to handle it."
The oil industry has been good to Louisiana, providing low taxes and high-paying jobs. But such largesse hasn't come without a cost, largely exacted from coastal wetlands. The most startling impact has only recently come to light—the effect of oil and gas withdrawal on subsidence rates. For decades geologists believed that the petroleum deposits were too deep and the geology of the coast too complex for drilling to have any impact on the surface. But two years ago former petroleum geologist Bob
Morton, now with the U.S. Geological Survey, noticed that the highest rates of wetland loss occurred during or just after the period of peak oil and gas production in the 1970s and early 1980s. After much study, Morton concluded that the removal of millions of barrels of oil, trillions of cubic feet of natural gas, and tens of millions of barrels of saline formation water lying with the petroleum deposits caused a drop in subsurface pressure—a theory known as regional depressurization. That led nearby underground faults to slip and the land above them to slump.
"When you stick a straw in a soda and suck on it, everything goes down," Morton explains. "That's very simplified, but you get the idea." The phenomenon isn't new: It was first documented in Texas in 1926 and has been reported in other oil-producing areas such as the North Sea and Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela. Morton won't speculate on what percentage of wetland loss can be pinned on the oil industry. "What I can tell you is that much of the loss between Bayou Lafourche and Bayou Terrebonne was caused by induced subsidence from oil and gas withdrawal. The wetlands are still there, they're just underwater." The area Morton refers to, part of the Barataria-Terrebonne estuary, has one of the highest rates of wetland loss in the state. [snip] **MORE**
This is a must read.
Here's an article that 'splains things about WHY LOUISIANA DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY IT NEEDED TO REPAIR THE LEVEES ....
A possible sea change on federal spending
Many conservatives are also upset with Bush at the moment, contending that he had violated the basic tenet of fiscal restraint. They say he has been presiding over a spendthrift GOP Congress that has been wasting money on trivial programs; this year, the Republicans found $454 million for two bridges in Alaska, one of which goes to an island inhabited by 50 people. This happened at a time when New Orleans was seeking $11 million for a key flood-prevention project, and getting only half the money. The conservative critics say the FEMA saga is an argument for a more efficient government that targets real needs.
The Bush-friendly Wall Street Journal editorial page said yesterday: "What's really at stake in the coming months is the Republican claim to be the governing party. That claim has been based in part on the assertion that energetic government doesn't always have to be big government. Mr. Bush's refusal to restrain a free-spending Congress has already undermined the latter, while Katrina is stretching the credibility of the former."
AND this one:
Hurricane Protection Budget Cuts Exact a Big Price
(ed.note: The following excerpts are from an article by Sheila Grissett which appeared in the June 8th, 2004 edition of the Times-Picayune.)
For the first time in 37 years, federal budget cuts have all but stopped major work on the New Orleans area's east bank hurricane levees, a complex network of concrete walls, metal gates and giant earthen berms that won't be finished for at least another decade.
... The Bush administration's proposed fiscal 2005 budget includes only $3.9 million for the east bank hurricane project. Congress likely will increase that amount, although last year it bumped up the administration's $3 million proposal only to $5.5 million.
"I needed $11 million this year, and I got $5.5 million," Naomi said. "I need $22.5 million next year to do everything that needs doing, and the first $4.5 million of that will go to pay four contractors who couldn't get paid this year."
... Levee-raising is only part of the flood-related work that has stopped since the federal government began reducing Corps of Engineers appropriations in 2001, as more money was diverted to homeland security, the fight against terrorism and the war in Iraq.
ALSO:
CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/15/2005 @ 1:05 am PT...
Hey Savantster - long time no see!
You're probably right about the cars ... too bad there weren't "appropriate" drivers who could have driven the cars to safety while giving people a ride out of Dodge (so to speak.) Sorry - I couldn't help the Republican dig.
I know it's the NeoCONS who are raping the environment and not giving money to - for instance to Louisiana - take care of things that our government SHOULD be taking care of with our tax money. NOT stuffing the pockets of the super rich corporations [i.e. the Petroleum Companies & Halliburton & the Carlyle Corporation, etc.]
This year, $454 million was readily available to build trophy Republican (NeoCON) bridges in AK that went nowhere, at the same time Louisiana was begging for $11 million they needed for serious flood management repairs --- they only got HALF of that.
This is the kind of crap people need to REMEMBER. Plus all the bureaucratic red tape that kept first responders from doing anything for DAYS meanwhile people went without food, water and sometimes roasted alive stuck in attics or nursing homes without any air.
I fullly agree with you & especially with your last paragraph to NWA and his ilk.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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unirealist
said on 9/15/2005 @ 2:27 am PT...
Buses do not drive themselves. How do you find 200+ properly-licensed professional drivers to transport these buses to nowhere, while leaving behind their own homes, cars, families?
And the evacuee problem was foreseen. A NOLA study in 2004 concluded that 80,000 people would refuse to leave the city EVEN IN A MANDATORY EVACUATION. So, it wasn't a question of unused buses--thirty-odd percent of the population was staying, no matter how many buses were used. Nagin knew this and did the next best thing, offering them the shelter of the Superdome.
Or perhaps "conservative" Republicans, who get so exorcised about Big Government intruding on our lives, wanted those 80,000 people to be ordered onto buses at gunpoint?
How long before Bush throws Chertoff to the wolves?
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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unirealist
said on 9/15/2005 @ 3:12 am PT...
From MSNBC:
************************
"Officials on the Outer Banks warned that Ophelia could bring 10 hours of hurricane-force wind to exposed Hatteras Island.... Even so, some lifelong residents insisted on sticking it out in their homes. At least hundreds of Hatteras Island residents defied an evacuation order.
As the wind picked up speed and fat raindrops began to fall, Allen Burrus relaxed and ate a bowl of chili in the back room of the grocery store that his grandfather started in 1866.
“It’s your home,” he said with a shrug.
**************************
Question: if any of these residents of the rich resort area of Hatteras die from the storm, will the right-wingers blame it on their being "lazy" and "dependent on government to take care of them?"
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 9/15/2005 @ 4:47 am PT...
Can these liars be sued? If they are shown to consistently lie for the GOP? How can you have nationally syndicated radio & TV shows, and be proven liars? Is this legal? Can I do this? Have a show where I just lie?
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 9/15/2005 @ 5:02 am PT...
Can any of you conservative idiots explain why gas has tripled since Bush took office, and has risen more in his 5 years in office, than in the last FUCKING CENTURY?????????
Is President Carter now off the rightwing hook, of being the "gas crisis" president???
I read that natural gas prices are going up over 70% effective this heating season. I never knew we got our oil and natural gas from New Orleans!!! That's what they'd have us believe! And they'd have us believe that they build oil rigs in the Gulf not able to withstand hurricanes! That's BULLSHIT, if you ever read anything about oil rigs.
And here's where they trapped themselves in a big lie. In the articles yesterday, explaining that natural gas was going up because of hurricane Katrina, it said that "unlike oil, natural gas is mostly from the United States", therefore explaining the rise in it because of the hurricane which was in the United States.
But, their explanation for rising natural gas prices IMPLICATES that the oil companies' rise in gas prices HAS NO BASIS BECAUSE WE IMPORT MOST OF OUR OIL!!! A 2nd grader could catch this goof-up in their explanation!
IE: If natural gas is rising 70% because we get it exclusively from the U.S., then oil/gas has no explanation for it's astronomic rise...because we get most of our oil from foreign sources like the Middle East!!!
Did anyone catch this, in all the syndicated articles for the explanation of natural gas rising 70%??? I think the natural gas explanation mistakenly implicated the bogus reasons for oil/gas rising!!! They screwed up!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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BadTux
said on 9/15/2005 @ 9:07 am PT...
Regarding oil imports: The largest sources of our imported oil are Canada, Mexico, and Venezeula. We import little oil from the Middle East nowdays. Most of the Venezuelan and Mexican oil comes to a massive deep-sea port in South Louisiana that was disrupted by the hurricane when it hit (this port is basically a massive floating dock that sticks out for a mile into the Gulf of Mexico so that giant supertankers can offload without having to transship into smaller tankers to enter shallow-water harbors). The oil is then carried via a series of pipelines to oil refineries in the Baton Rouge - St. Bernard Parish (south of New Orleans) swathe, where it is turned into gasoline and other oil products.
So yes, a hurricane blamming ashore and smacking this whole area WILL disrupt oil imports and the refining of said oil imports... as well as disrupt the offshore oil platforms, which are connected to that area via pipelines and, if the pipelines aren't operational due to lack of power etc., can't move their oil.
That said, why is gasoline going up in price in *CALIFORNIA*? California gets no (zero) oil from the Gulf Coast infrastructure. All its oil comes from California or Alaska, and all its gasoline is refined locally. The only thing California gets from "back east" is natural gas and some aviation fuel, which come in via a pipeline from West Texas.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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texaslady
said on 9/15/2005 @ 10:47 am PT...
Our gas prices will change within 20 minutes. And is now anywhere from $2.99.9 to $3.15 depending on the hour of the day.
And we are between the largest area of refineries, so it sure isn't shipping charges.
Its called price gouging because they can.
Remember the $25,000 checks written to Bush while he was in Crawford, I think there were 250 people at the BBQ. Well, it takes money to keep Senators and Congresspeople in line or they just might jump ship and do the right thing.
Such as clean house and do what they are paid to do by the tax payers.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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Shmoopatties
said on 9/15/2005 @ 10:50 am PT...
On the bus topic, I slightly disagree with one aspect of the Media Matters story...that the "2000 school busses under water" story started with the AP photo. The first time *I* heard the talking point, it was accompanied by a satellite photo. In preperation for writing this comment, I googled it.
http://shorterlink.com/?PQGUHW
This link has the photo I'd seen used several places while moonbats were ranting about how Nagan screwed up. But this has a cool scroll over "before & after" feature. And now I'm baffled....
Follow the left edge of the building down to the row of busses. In the before shot it's fairly clear that at the bottom of the row, there are gaps and items too short to be busses. But in the AFTER photo, the one the right wingers keep throwing around, the long busses clearly continue to the end of the row...no gaps.
Look at the row to the left of the row you were just examining. Before it's about half busses, half other items that clearly don't appear to be busses. But in the AFTER shot, the one the righties keep using as a talking point, the busses CLEARLY continue to the end of the row.
Hmmmmm.......
Actual URL:
http://www.globalsecurit...w-orleans_bus-comp01.htm
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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KestrelBrighteyes
said on 9/15/2005 @ 11:39 am PT...
Hey y'all, listen - I've been working with the Red Cross, sorting donations and stuff. I was told that almost 300 people have been moved here already, but we have places for hundreds more that may or may not show up by the end of this month (whoever was in charge of evacuation screwed up and rerouted some of our folks to Nashville, where they had to come up with a bunch of extra beds on short notice while we have donated beds, even HOUSES, empty - go figure)
At any rate..
One of the other volunteers asked why we still have so many empty beds. The supervisor said, "Because they don't want to leave"
And it hit me - I'm not one to judge these folks, because even under the same circumstances, I'm not sure I'd leave either.
Thousands are missing, thousands are dead - would YOU leave your home if you had family and friends missing or in dire need? Could you turn your back on them and trust total strangers to care for them?
Would you leave if you didn't know where your children were sent, or how you'd ever find them, and the only sure link for finding each other was your address - even if the house was underwater?
Many of those staying are staying because in times like these, family is your ONLY hope and comfort.
I didn't think it was a southern thing, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe it is, because people just don't seem to get that - we do not take a chance and leave family behind - EVER.
And from personal experience I can tell you, when someone you love goes missing, even when there are nothing but dead ends, even if the person you are missing is most likely dead, you NEVER EVER stop searching - not until you have answers.
In a real family, just "letting go" without knowing is not an option.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/15/2005 @ 12:24 pm PT...
Kestrelbrighteyes - you are an angel! Thanks for that great update and very wise words.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Savantster
said on 9/15/2005 @ 12:44 pm PT...
Kira at #4..
I DIS-agree that -any- resources "should have been used" to make sure people got out. It's not -my- responsibility as a citizen, or business owner (and if you knew me, you'd know I dispise corperations) to put my life or resouces directly on the line for anyone.
I saw an article where someone suggested that cars not be allowed to leave NO unless they were full.. Excuse me? I bust my balls to have a life, and I'm supposed to sit around hoping to fill my car with someone that wants to leave? and if no one is in my neighborhood needing a ride, I'm to drive all over tarnation to find someone? I don't think so.. Guess what I pay TAXES for?
The same applies to the cars at rental lots. To imply that someone should have, individually, tried to find drivers and have them cruse around looking for those who needed help is a bit much (and why I have a problem with hardcore "liberals"). The -only- other recourse you are preposing is stealing those cars (as a matter of policy).. that's not acceptable either (though, had I been stranded and saw an empty renal lot, I may have well stolen a car to live.. but that's not the point here).
The government has a responsibility to "protect and serve" the public... it was the GOVERNMENT, on both the local and federal levels, who failed the people.. let's not lose sight of that. Any other "possibility" has no "legal or just" ramifications.. NONE.. We -all- pay taxes to have a society that is "safe and reasonable" to live in.. Letting poor people drown is NOT reasonable, but that gulit/blame ONLY falls on government, not individuals. The poor people who suffered (and are still suffereing) should not be mad at their neighbors who had a car, or at the rental lot up the street that didn't send cars.. they should be pissed off at their government.. at their "brothers" in general, for allowing our society to fall into such ruin as to let so many people suffer.
Oh.. and NWA... to say "See what happens when you're lazy. You drown." is to admit you are the lowest form of life immaginable.. lazy? Tell you what, shitforbrains.. YOU pack up all you can carry on your back.. walk 60 -75 miles from your house.. SIT there, on the street waiting for a cop to come and tell you "you can't sit here.. move along".. . Poverty is a part of our society so ignorant shitheads like you can have a decent life style.. not having a car isn't "lazy", it's "being poor".. and -noone- likes being poor, you moron.. Quit blaming the victims and start blaming the culprits.. overly greedy rich folks and a government that panders to them.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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bluebear2
said on 9/15/2005 @ 12:58 pm PT...
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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Charlie L
said on 9/15/2005 @ 3:03 pm PT...
Does anybody have the physical address of the bus storage yard in NO to perform a Google Earth search and see what is going on there?
Have they turned off Google Earth for NO in order to control what we can see?
Just curious.
Charlie L
Portland, OR
CLL2001@gmail.com
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 9/15/2005 @ 9:46 pm PT...
Re #21 & link,
I got a very disturbing email a week or so ago that mentioned the possible dynamiting of the levee, but it was third-hand & I didn't want to post something that would turn out not to be true. In light of this piece, although it seems to offer only further anecdotal information. I'll share what was forwarded to me by a reputable friend. The original message, from a couple who live in NO, said in part:
"...Our house is 6 blocks from
the lower 9th ward...we have learned that...Fearing that the flood waters would invade Uptown New Orleans (the wealthy, white part of town), they dynamited another hole in the levy on our side to let flood waters in there and keeping them away from Uptown..."
More about their ordeal is now on their website:
http://www.getyouracton.com/blog/
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/15/2005 @ 10:14 pm PT...
Oh ... that is AWFUL (Joan #37) ... especially the last few lines, "Yes, there are parts of the city that are very damaged - we went into the Treme, the oldest free black neighborhood in the country, where we ran into Chief Al, of the Skull and Bones Gang. I asked him how many people were left in the Treme - he was the last one. Went into the 6th Ward, dry now but flood devastated. This is one of the poorest neighborhoods, but close to the French Quarter - we’ve known for awhile it is slated for gentrification - now, the neighborhood is deserted - no police, no national guard, no people - primed and waiting for the developers to come in and build new houses for the rich white folks and who cares where the people that used to live there are or if they have a place to come back to."
This just breaks my heart ... and enrages me that this will happen. They keep calling the survivors "refugees." I guess that's what they've made them. Were they all renting or did some own property?
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
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unirealist
said on 9/16/2005 @ 5:10 am PT...
Freedom fan (#40)-- please read my comment #26, also that of onyx (#2), for refutation of the whole unused-buses talking point.
Please read all comments before offering your own. Thanks.
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
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ThomNYC
said on 9/16/2005 @ 6:51 am PT...
I used to think the neocon spinners like FOX NEWS just reported inaccurate slanted stuff because they didn't check anything the Bushies fed them.
Now, it is even more sadly apparent that they all know what they are reporting is lies. And, millions of Americans haven't caught on.
If you travel around this country, it is so often shocking what people believe to be true. Even "liberals" in vast areas of America just keep accepting the completely false crap these deceptive power hungery pigs crank out.
If the truth about so many things done to our nation could be spread, this country would be much more angry as a whole. And, these evil doers would have to serve out their terms in silence, or resign, or, in some cases, go to jail.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
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Joan
said on 9/16/2005 @ 8:06 am PT...
For our friends who keep saying we lefties should stop blaming poor george & the federal guvmint.....
From editorandpublisher.com:
"Editorials, Including Those at Conservative Papers, Rip Bush's Hurricane Response"
Dallas Morning News:
"...shameful lack of response is unfathomable. How is it that the U.S. military can conquer a foreign country in a matter of days, but can't...even drop a case of water to desperate and dying Americans?..."
The Washington Times:
"...We're pleased he finally caught a ride home from his vacation...
...But he must crack heads...to get the food, water and medicine to the people crying for help in New Orleans and on the Mississippi coast...
...We should have delivered them yesterday. Americans are dying."
Philadelphia Inquirer:
"...Sorry, Mr. President, legitimate questions are being asked about the lack of rescue personnel, equipment, food, supplies, transportation, you name it, four days after the storm. It's not "playing politics" to ask why..."
Minneapolis Star Tribune:
"...How do you justify cutting $250 million...for crucial pump and levee work...authorized by Congress in 1995?
...How do you explain the almost total lack of coordination among federal, state and local officials both in Louisiana and Mississippi? No one appeared in charge..."
Des Moines Register:
"...Katrina was a disaster that came with at least two days of warning, and it has been more than four days since the storm struck. Yet on Thursday, refugees still huddled unrescued in the unspeakable misery of the New Orleans Superdome. Patients in hospitals without power and water clung to life in third-world conditions..."
Re this quote from the WA Times, though:
"...he risks losing the one trait his critics have never dented: His ability to lead..."
Oh really? This is a trait of his? And it's never been dented?! ....and where is your Mother Ship parked?
This president wouldn't know leadership if it snuck up & bit him on the ass.
george w. bush: loser, liar, laughingstock.
PRESS FOR RESIGNATION OR IMPEACHMENT.
GENOCIDE IS AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
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Freedom Fan
said on 9/16/2005 @ 12:05 pm PT...
Brad,
If the purpose of this article was to impugn the credibility of LittleGreenFootballs.com, I am afraid it has backfired upon you.
LGF showed a picture as proof that "hundreds" of buses were unused. In the link Charles Johnson provided, the author says he counts 146 drowned school buses each with 60 seats capable of carrying almost 9000 people to safety.
Perhaps all the buses had flat tires, busted head gaskets, or empty fuel tanks. Or perhaps the picture was just a photoshop job--part of another vast right wing conspiracy. Or maybe it is just an oversight on my part; maybe his statement is in some other article.
Perhaps you could provide a link to the LGF post which claimed that "2000 buses" were available but unused to rescue survivors. Otherwise I'm certain you will want to publish a correction apologizing for the inaccurate information you have stated about LGF. No doubt you value the truth as much as your fellow blogger, Charles Johnson.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
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Freedom Fan
said on 9/16/2005 @ 12:28 pm PT...
Brad,
OK now I see your link to the LGF post which references an article by Wesley Pruden stating that 2,000 buses were available. Although it is possible that could have been an exaggeration, it certainly appears from the aerial photos that many buses indeed were available. I suspect that many buses, used by the city, actually were owned by private firms, such as LaidLaw, which makes buses and transportation services available to government.
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
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Kira
said on 9/16/2005 @ 4:35 pm PT...
#42 ThomNYC
I completely agree with you. It's the hypnotizing of America ... all due to Newt Gingrich's use of NLP back in the '80s. Also the implementation of Josef Goebbel's (German Minister of Propaganda) methods in the mainstream media. It's powerful and it works.
But I grow weary of the stupidity. I don't have any respect for people in my own family who say they are smart (pointing to where they graduated in their high school class) yet don't seem to have one clue about how to research for documented facts and no interest in learning.
Dumb & Dumber.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
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foreign devil
said on 9/17/2005 @ 7:53 am PT...
Who the hell are you anyway? I've never heard of 'bradblog' before? Why should anything you say matter since you're nobody?
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
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Freedom Fan
said on 9/17/2005 @ 10:58 am PT...
...Bush Slashed the Tires on These Buses [pictured at HogOnIce.com]
so the Mayor of New Orleans Couldn't Use Them to Evacuate Black People
How long is the public going to put up with this crap? Compared to liberals with Bush Derangement Syndrome, Joseph Goebbels was a pansy...
-Steve H. Graham
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
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czaragorn
said on 9/18/2005 @ 6:32 am PT...
Welcome, Foreign Devil! I value my natural, in-born skepticism, and I admire yours! Hang around a while and join 6 of 7 other nobodies for a little information sharing! Enjoy!
Bob, Expat Devil in Prague
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
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czaragorn
said on 9/18/2005 @ 6:47 am PT...
KBE - I always thought you were a goddess - now I know that you are one. Thank you for acting out your true compassion. I'd like to add that were I a NO resident, and especially a home owner, I'd really resist the idea of leaving, knowing that once I did I might never get back and reclaim my home. How could the administration think that anyone there would believe them when push came to shove?
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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ddd
said on 2/18/2006 @ 9:43 am PT...
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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ddd
said on 2/18/2006 @ 9:46 am PT...
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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bob
said on 2/18/2006 @ 9:48 am PT...
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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dd
said on 2/18/2006 @ 9:56 am PT...
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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dd
said on 2/18/2006 @ 9:59 am PT...
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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zz
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:07 am PT...
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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hh
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:09 am PT...
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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pope
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:11 am PT...
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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mama
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:13 am PT...
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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dd
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:15 am PT...
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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forte
said on 2/18/2006 @ 10:17 am PT...