READER COMMENTS ON
"BREAKING: DNC'S VOTING RIGHTS INSTITUTE ISSUES STATEMENT CALLING FOR 'MANUAL COUNT' OF ALL BALLOTS IN BUSBY/BILBRAY ELECTION!"
(115 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:12 pm PT...
You are doing more for honest and fair elections by keeping the EI community informed, along with geting MSM to start reporting, than anybody I know.
Keep it up. I will see you in an hour or so.
SAVE R VOTE
Riverside County, CA
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:17 pm PT...
The DNC makes a statement (was a check for $150,000 enclosed? I doubt it.) but it is AFTER THE DEADLINE.
How VERY convenient. Talk a mean game, but not have to pony up a cent and nothing will come of it.
I am sicker and sicker of the "official" Democratic institutions each and every second.
Thank god that REAL Democrats are so much better, smarter and intellectually honest than our DNC and DCCC.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:39 pm PT...
My thoughts exactly! I mean WTF? Did it take over a month to realize this? Sheesh!
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:45 pm PT...
I was about to say "HOW TIMELY!!" but I can see I'm a bit LATE!
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 1:12 pm PT...
I would be concerned, too, that this "gesture" makes the issue appear to be a partisan one (doggone...that "Instant Preview" window, which has coyly appeared and disappeared for me throughout the day, has resumed its "invisibility" mode.)
Where are the really big guns and carrying voices when you REALLY need them - at the outset of a crisis?
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:06 pm PT...
Just checking in to tell you that my signed copy of Armed Madhouse arrived today... thanks, Brad and Greg Palast!
Keep up the great work!
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:08 pm PT...
How DEMOCRATIC of you WinterPatriot + PegC
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:29 pm PT...
The old saying, "People vote with their feet," applies here. Let's see what happens behind this long overdue declaration, watch where their feet go, not what their lips emit.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 7/14/2006 @ 3:43 pm PT...
Thank you Brad for more good work! Why don't you ask your good friend Howard Dean about the theft known as the 2004 Presidential Election? It is never TO LATE to come clean and expose the truth!!! 9/11 was the first stop of the Bushit war on TERROR www.loosechange911.com dedicated to those who died on 9/11/2001. Did he view this movie yet? Finally ask him: How bout the Republidems turning up the heat on the GLOBAL WARMING issue instead of say fcking flag burning while we still can do something about it?
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:03 pm PT...
Hmmm... DNC voting rights institute eh, another rock to look under, maybe Ernie works for them
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:05 pm PT...
Thank you, Brad.
One guy's hard work and determination made this happen --- and you are the one we need to thank.
It is inspiring to watch someone make a difference.
It gives us hope that finally there may be the support we need to tackle the incredible mountain of corruption we are faced with in election fraud U.S.A.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:26 pm PT...
I'm soooo cynical (terrible ain't I)
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:32 pm PT...
You are just the worst!
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:42 pm PT...
When is the GOP going to stop fighting and paying for the defense of election crooks (link here), and join the DNC and some enlightened conservatives in stopping the rape of mother democracy?
I mean, hell, doesn't Brad's post make it clear that this is not a frickin partisan issue?
All the regular bloggers here have known that since day one.
We have also observed that election crime, election lack of ethics, and election ho-hum tends overwhelmingly to reside in the republican party.
So republicans, time to drop the criminals and election reform deadbeats in your party, and join the democrats in making America the model of election integrity thru paper ballots and manual counts.
Republicans, sue some rogue election official in your party, because that is where they are ... and stop defending them! Support your constitution and the laws of your land!
Your democracy ... your nation depends on it!
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 4:48 pm PT...
Hey, it is never too late to have the first legal count ... which would start the clock ticking ... Haas does not make the rules where it really counts ... in the judicial realm ... the last bastion of innocent terror suspects at Gitmo (Hamdan v Rumsfeld) ... and the last bastion for declaring that there is something fishy in the FEC EAC ITA "thinking" ... and that something fishy is Shawn Southworth, Ken Blackwell, Katherine Harris, and Mikey Haas.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 6:11 pm PT...
Is it my imagination or are we finally getting traction here? People finally starting to pay attention?
Bush & Cheney in Leavenworth--Halliburton forced to repay billions stolen--is it all a dream?
Quick, Dick! Better launch another "terrorist attack" on America!
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 6:31 pm PT...
Thanks for that link - I was going to post it at the open thread when I first saw it at Raw Story. When I went back to Raw to get the link the story was gone.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:30 pm PT...
I've never heard of the DNC Voting Rights Institute until now. So, I did a Google search and learned that this Institute was formed after the 2000 stolen election to QUOTE: protect and enforce the right of every American to vote and to ensure that the Constitution's promise is fully realized and that, in disputed elections, every vote is counted fully and fairly. END QUOTE
Old Erma wants to know: Where the hell has this worthless Institute been since 2000? How about 2002? How about 2004? How about all the problems in primaries around the country in 2006? I haven't heard a peep out of them until now, AFTER the deadline in San Diego. Isn't that convenient. These worthless Dems drive me up the !@#$ wall. I can't stand them!
It would appear that this lame Institute has been as useless and worthless as the insipid party it represent. I agree with Charlie (above). (Charlie dear, you sound just like Old Erma. We see through all this crap and wishful thinking stuff, don't we? Many of the others on here don't. Tough luck.)
Sooner or later we will be in the streets. The longer we wait, the worse the world will burn. And your wishful thinking pie-in-the-sky suggestions ain't going to change things. We are living in a very different time now where traditional means are ineffective.
Dictator Bush is threatening to use nukes somewhere in the Middle East. We don't have too much more time folks for mastubatory feel-good sessions on here and wishful-thinking speculations.
The streets await...
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:44 pm PT...
Although I believe the mainstream Dems are sadly Uriah Heepish and would be a dead if they weren't up against gangsters, I think Dredd has an excellent point in saying Haas does not ultimately make the rules. Seems there has been a lot of "if the Republicans do it, it's the end of the road" lately. That's playing right into the illegality we are all fighting. It's almost like some of us talk a good game, but when the issue comes into focus, all the sudden we freeze.
Politics isn't an instant breakfast. As I said eons ago on this blog - act, experience, never forget, have sensual empathy with and an intellectual grasp of the details of the moment, and measure your progress.
I should be clear that I am not responding to Charlie L's posting. I agree with his view entirely in #2 including about real Democrats. Just want to respond to Dredd's sensible point.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:48 pm PT...
I agree we should be in the streets, Erma.
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:49 pm PT...
Please. Please. I know you're mad, but PLEASE refrain from referring to the commenters on this blog as engaging in anything "masturbatory" or as members of a "cult" or any of the other slurs you have used to make your point. I'm positive you can voice your outrage without calling everyone on this blog names. Thank you.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 7:50 pm PT...
Great work Brad. You've chased this down an excellent path. What happens when the hand count does not match the Diebold count????? WOOPSIE, looks like 2 very big groups are incriminated in election fraud. A. Diebold (obvious answer) and b. The DNC.
Why would the DNC also be incriminated if the count is shown to be fraudulent? Well, it's a little thing called the "Democracy at Risk: The 2004 Election in Ohio". Here for Brad's awesome coverage. But remind me again, what was Donna Brazile's (cue the booing, hissing, sellout pundit sounds for Donna), and the DNC's recommendation?
page 8, of section 7 of the report:
Precinct-based optical scans are the most accurate voting available today. They are also reasonably priced and can satisfy HAVA requirements in a cost-effective manner with devices such as the ES&S A(see Figure 3)."
WOOPS, do I get to watch the DNC eat its words? Because we don't have election code or legislative support (and it's very costly to do recounts) the whole idea of Optiscans being Accurate cause they allow a paper ballot backup is BUNK AND STUPID. and Brad, I appreciate your work, but let me tell you the end of the story... DNC will either be too cheap to pay for the recount or it will be foiled the way it was in Ohio, in Georgia, in NM, in Maryland.
so this is going to be fun, the DNC having to eat crow about their own piece of crap report on election fraud!!!!
keep them honest brad, the DNC wiggles strange ways sometimes.... not always having the heart of election integrity in mind as much as brazile getting large contracts (i.e. Money)...
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 8:18 pm PT...
Just yesterday I posted a copy of letter on this blog that I had sent back as a response to a fundraising letter from John Kerry and the DNC. I should have waited and posted it today because it addressed the exact issue of the failure of the Democrats/DNC to stand up for election integrity in general and the issues related to the Busby/Bilbray election in particular. I only wish it had something to do with this DNC announcement. They have a LONG way to go before anything I said in that letter changes!
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 8:57 pm PT...
Hey floridiot, Erma is clearly more cynical than you.
Erma, why do you spend so much energy giving up? You feel all that wind hitting your face? By all means keep pissing into it.
Agent 99 #21 Not very ladylike for an 87 year old, huh?
-- Chris Hooten
P.S. I don't have anything against you, Erma, but you sure are a defeatist, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out *why*.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 9:34 pm PT...
Chris, regarding your post #24,
Listen up. I've have said repeatedly that it's time (way past time - as in 6 years past time) to be hitting the streets. How on earth is taking to the streets giving up? How do you figure that?
You're the one pissing into the wind by joining in the wishful-thinking cult-like mentality on here. I just tell it like I see it. You don't agree. Fine.
As for your 1950s "lady like" reference, I'm not a lady and never claimed to be. I'm a strong woman at 87. I've been in politics much of my life, have been involved in the women's movement and have thought very, very deeply long and hard about my politics since 2000. I was all behind Gore until he wussed out. I even held my nose and voted for that John Bush-Lite Kerry thing. But no more. No more. I've had it up to here with the Dems. I can't stand them. It's time for a new party and for people to hit the streets. I don't know how else to say it. So there.
Below are some more things you can do which really matter instead of trying to break into emails of Registrar of Voters officials (THAT was suggested on here yesterday). That's what is driving me crazy. Looney suggestions like that on here. And some wonder why I say what I do?
Is anyone following the presidential conflict in Mexico? You don't see them sitting around at their computers writing looney, wishful thinking ideas on a blog. Hell, they're out in the streets in Mexico! There's a huge rally planned in Mexico this weekend. There will be millions in the streets in Mexico. That's where the people in this country should be: IN THE STREETS.
Also, listen to Mike Malloy on Air America. I don't agree with him at all on his position of giving the useless Dems "one more chance" (hell, they've had loads of chances since 2000 and failed us miserably). But Malloy is the best out there as far as I'm concerned.
Here are my sugggestions:
*Stop shopping at corporate box stores. (How many of you shop at Target or WalMart, et al?)
*If you shop in your local small businesses, the $$ stays in your area and will not end up in the Republicrat coffers.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 9:45 pm PT...
Maybe Erma is raining on your parade because she is a patriot who believes you can't win the way you're going about it.
She wants you all to put your energies where she thinks it will count--which is revolution from what she has said.
I used to think the same until I stumbled upon a better way. (www.ni4d.us)
Even revolution & demonstrating won't solve the corruption problem because our system of government is set up to foster corruption.
That's why we need more than just a change of one party in power to another.
We need to amend the Constitution itself, so that the People have direct power to make laws.
The politicians have certainly proven they haven't got enough sense to run the country without our input.
Somebody said a while back that a member of a school board may know how many children to schedule for kindergarten class, but shouldn't be trusted re war in the middle east or some similar idea.
Cheney & his monkey are making the decisions now for us. If they aren't the embodiment of short sighted stupidity, I don't know who is!
GIMME A BOARD MEMBER!!
I'd trust the fate of the world to a board member anyday rather than greedy, arrogant, dishonest, irresponsible, dumbass so-called professional politicians.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 9:48 pm PT...
There are a bunch of theories floating around, I've noticed, but Erma uses "her" name, uses the third person, in reference to "herself", and I'm trying to remember the name of the cartoon granny the right wingnuts email around to each other all the time. It might be the same name. The thrust of that cartoon is for this old biddy to pop up with all kinds of in-your-face pronouncements... knee-slapping stuff... huh, huh. So, our Erma may be doing a play on that. Whatever.
Hey, I can totally hang with the desire to put bajillions of people in the streets, stop this nonsense by massive force (wish I could put in the picture of the multitudes demonstrating for a recount in Mexico today!), but when we have this shot at making elections work the way they were intended, it seems to me it is worth giving it everything we've got. The motives for going radically negative on something that could work, with enough ultra-intense positve energy behind it, troubles me.
Whoever Erma is, I keep remembering my own gramma. She was seriously tough, tough-minded, highly-opinionated, frightening to many a meek soul, but she was radically reasonable when confronted with good reasons why her opinions didn't cut it. So. I just dunno either. We seem to run up against a lot of people who just will NOT budge on matters of disinformation, or tactics... really just any POV... sometimes this is a good thing, but often it is pernicious. I just really don't want the pernicious stuff to hold the day.
Quite a few commenters, here, have expressed their lack of faith in the usefulness of blowing off steam in cyberspace. This is even more so at many other blogs. I can identify with that feeling too. But here, here at BradBlog, we have a massive stock of solid information that cannot help but do good things for people, for our country, and, pardon me, I'm damn picky about where, and with whom, I spend my time. My judgment on that has not erred for more than a couple days in over two decades. I am certain my time is well spent here.
Again, I feel honored to interact with so many brave and intelligent people, who clearly love their country, humanity and the planet, no matter what politcal affiliation they hold. All of us here get cases of momentary cynicism, have transient fits of fuck-it-all, temporary insanity, from the monster burden of our world, but none of us seems to stay that way. Thank goodness. Maybe Erma will get a better outlook about our chances soon. Or, maybe we'll end up making it happen to spite her. That could be good.
I just know that it is completely possible to be thoroughly tough-minded, and yet sensitive and responsive to good input... companionable... friendly... without pulling punches.... There is the balance of types of strengths. Rigidity is the wrong kind. It breaks.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:00 pm PT...
A peaceful revolution, if possible, is highly desireable.
Who said anything about breaking into emails?
On page 2 of the original written request for a handcount, there was an item (g)all logs, emails notes or other documentation of any complaints or requests for assistance;
Oh, gee, not so silly to ask if they got the emails, huh?
And do you honestly think those suggestions are going to achieve anything? We are going to get our ability to vote and hence our democracy back by buying locally, and not shopping at corporate box stores while listening to radio programs?
-- Chris Hooten
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:13 pm PT...
I put a lot of energy into urging all our tough cookies to maintain some decorum, try to use the spirit of comity, even while violently disagreeing, and, clearly, some get the message more quickly than others.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:14 pm PT...
Charlene, I *totally* agree with you. Bilbray, an oil and energy lobbiest, is *clearly* more qualified at making decisions with respect to the middle east than a school board member. I'm sure he has his constituents best interests in mind. Sheesh.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:22 pm PT...
Charlene, I totally disagree with you. Now really isn't the time to be trying to change to a completely new form of government. It is the time to do everything we can to make sure we wrestle back the means to choose that, or some other, or just a better version of the same, at a later date.
EVERY MINUTE COUNTS. NOVEMBER IS SCREAMING TOWARD US.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:24 pm PT...
Folks, it's hot, and I'm grumpy, so take everything with a grain of salt.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:33 pm PT...
Wow, the DNC is really on top of this issue. Are they going to foot the bill for the
Nice to see phony goldbrickers are out en masse this evening.
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:36 pm PT...
I'm at the extreme north coast of our state and it's a sweltering 74 degrees out right now! I know what you mean! I'm not even being sarcastic! I was hoping you were at yer dickinary.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:41 pm PT...
Ok, I admit it, I had to look up comity.
"an atmosphere of social harmony"
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:43 pm PT...
re your post #28:
Clearly, I'm talking way over your head. Hahahahaha.
My point was that you/we are NOT going to get your/our "ability to vote and hence our democracy back." Period. It's NOT going to happen. You STILL do not understand who and what these people are who are in power. Have you read PNAC yet? Did you happen to read page 51 of PNAC? It's all over for this country, just as I said the night of the Judicial Coup in 2001. And it has only gotten worse with every passing day since that night because The People refuse to do what is needed. They would rather write wishful-thinking posts back and forth to each other on a blog.
It's much easier for you and others to just go after me. So, have at it. Enjoy.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:44 pm PT...
Excellent news, Brad!!
I've posted this important story over at DKos. It is now number 1 on the Recommended list.
Thanks, in a large part, to your herculean efforts --- the DNC is finally waking up.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:45 pm PT...
You have made your point.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 10:47 pm PT...
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 11:19 pm PT...
San Diego Elections Supervisor Haas and Secretary of State McPherson need to be sued for misfeasance and malfeasance of office as they KNOWING ALLOWED voting machines that had been de-certified and hackable to be used in the first Federal Election of 2006. If it is not stopped here and now. it will continue throughout the country in November.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 7/14/2006 @ 11:30 pm PT...
HEAR, HEAR, HANK McCANN!!!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 12:25 am PT...
Erma, I'm right there with you as far as grabbing our torches and taking to the streets if that's what it comes to. I don't want to end up in one of those nice barbed-wire detention areas that they have around the country, though.
In your 87 years on this earth, have you ever seen such an amazing research and social networking tool such as the internet? The free exchange of ideas allows for the rapid development of strategies and mechanisms for political, social, and scientific purposes. It also allows for more people to review materials in parallel, double checking one another, and making sure nothing is missed. Calling this blog a "wishful thinking cult" is really missing the whole point.
-- Chris Hooten
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 12:47 am PT...
This is good news, sort of.
The headline should read "Blue moon observed in US"
With the byline "DNC temporarily removes head from ass - oxygen having effect"
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 12:54 am PT...
And good for porn, too.
Anyways, I would be happy to continue any discussions in the "while the cat's away" thread.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 12:57 am PT...
I only hope the DNC is really serious about pushing this issue (a forced hand count).
-- Chris Hooten
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:03 am PT...
Yes, Erma, I've been thinking hard, and have decided that you are just in a seriously bad mood the past few days. We're waiting for you over at the open thread Winter Patriot put up in honor of "Prup".... Uhm, don't worry, I think Chris meant the internet is good for porn. They just can't seem to help themselves, can they?
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:12 am PT...
LOL Of course that's what I meant. Not that I *know* or anything, I've just heard.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:15 am PT...
Sure. Sure. We believe you Chris. Sure we do.
To open thread with us.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 2:20 am PT...
For what it's worth --- and not to be disagreeable with the good Agent99 --- I rather enjoy Erma's posts. (Even if I don't always get to read them all.)
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 2:25 am PT...
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:45 am PT...
Are we going to get to hear Dean's speech or read it!
I hope the DNC realizes that if they pay to have these ballots recounted, it's an INVESTMENT! They need to give Democrats a reason to believe the money they send is going to count for something NOW! If they do that, they'll get all the money, but more importantly, VOTES they can handle.
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:55 am PT...
Just read on firedoglake that choicepoint has given money to Lieberman. Does that seem odd since choicepoint was a major player in his defeat in 2000. Also, since Dean is finally talking about election fraud, so are the progressive blogs. Seems orchestrated. (sp?)I'm grateful that they are..but more so to Brad, Greg Palast and the Bev at BBV.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 5:21 am PT...
Finally Rove shows up again. But I never expected "him" to pose as an 87 year old woman.
Probably some sort of Annie "Get your Gun" Coulter jealousy.
Funny, I agree with Agent99 and Brad, as they disagree with each other about the "grande olde lady".
Brad knows "Karl - the 87 year olde woman" will help our cause by appearing here in the 87 year old woman persona and spewing ignorance about needing brick and mortar protests to be effective.
Translated that means that blogs are doing the job of the brick and mortar protests ... hey 87 year old woman ... this is the 21st century and you can't drag us back into the brick and mortar past with your dimentia.
Get over it. Blogs are the form of effective protest in the 21st century.
Brick and mortal protests are the icing on the cake, no longer the cake.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:01 am PT...
Is it just me? Or is anyone else getting A LITTLE SICK of statements like:
"...This is no longer about whether or not [blank] won the election..."
WHY ISN'T IT??!!
This is like somebody hits your grandma over the head with a lead pipe & people keep shouting about the importance of keeping our streets safe while constantly repeating "THIS IS NOT ABOUT GRANDMA GETTING HIT WITH A LEAD PIPE!"
WELL, YES IT IS. Grandma's bleeding on the sidewalk & we KNOW who did it & we've GOT the lead pipe (the voting machines are the lead pipe, for those of us who are a bit slow with our metaphors, & grandma is our democracy)
Funny, I seem to recall, on Jan. 6 2005, hearing variations of that theme from the lips of every dem who deigned to speak up "in support" of Boxer & Tubbs Jones. Yeah, it's about making sure our votes get counted etc, but "(gasp!)IT'S NOT ABOUT OVER-TURNING THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION!"
SIX YEARS these people have been operating illegitimately - passing laws, IGNORING laws, appointing judges, taking away our rights, shredding the Constitution, waging wars, killing & maiming in OUR NAME - and if by some miracle the evil shits in Congress actually ever DEAL WITH electoral fraud, do you mean to tell me that all the illegitimate consequences of this fraudulent-at-its-core regime will be allowed to stand? The guy(s) wielding the lead pipe can just drop it in the weeds & melt into the crowd?
Steaming crock #1...
We could NEVER have a re-vote because "the American people would never stand for it", right?
Steaming crock #2...
We should NOT impeach these guys because "the American people would never stand for it", right?
Jesus. The big giant flaw in all my complaining is that I don't have an answer. Taking to the streets in protest is not the same as taking to the streets in revolt. The powers that be know full well that people are not about to do the latter.
And Erma...isn't that "take to the streets" talk wishful thinking, too? We may not be all on the same exact page here, but we're pretty much in the same ballpark with you, if I may mix my metaphors.
It's GOOD that we don't all agree on everything here, imho. Makes us think. Challenges our commitment to free speech & all that.
I may be a tad biased, but Bradblog is the BEST.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:04 am PT...
Dredd said "I mean, hell, doesn't Brad's post make it clear that this is not a frickin partisan issue?"
IMO, the republicans have always been in the minority when it comes to their ideology and values (i.e. you're on your own and looking out for the rich guy). They know this too, so rigging elections was/is the only way they knew possible to take control of our country along with manipulating voters perceptions of what it means to be "liberal."
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:38 am PT...
I agree with Emma why haven't we been taking to the streets and demanding accountability, demanding the press do their job. Something has happened to all of us, we have adopted the environment, if it doesn't affect me why bother.
Paul Krugman says it best, the media, all of it, is owned by Bush buddies. If a journalist dares write something against this corrupt bunch the journalist doesn't just get a swipe, they are mashed, ground and smeared into the ground.
The Dems keep wanting to play by the old rules and can't seem to wake up that Repubs fight dirtier, Repubs aren't happy to lie, they will kill anyone who opposes them. This group believes winning is the be all end all. Forget honor, that word is for losers in their book.
Who do you think pays the protesters against Lou Dobbs? or Cindy Sheehan or anyone daring to ask questions? The same people who paid protesters during the Florida recount and the same people who spit on our Veitnam vets.
This administration got where it is because we all have become sheep, not wanting to speak out and upset our comfortable world.
We all stand behind the Brad Friedman's, Lou Dobbs, Paul Krugman, but we need to stand beside, not behind. We need to make our voices heard. We need to wake up the good people who really do not know how bad it has become in our world.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 8:16 am PT...
When I said in #20 that I agree we should be in the streets, I was speaking of peaceful protest, of course. Such protest in no way mitigates the very important work we are doing on the net which, I agree with Dredd, is the most useful thing we can be doing. Erma is entirely wrong that we are just massaging ourselves. Much of what is happening of a positive nature would not have happened without blogs such as this which are the natural enemies of authoritarianism. It's is amusing to me that so many heated debates assume that there is one way or one set of ways to tackle a problem - so many words to no effect because there are actually a number of ways that can interact with each other to bring about a result. (These arguments may be where some of us are wasting words.)
As to Erma, a few points about her postings. There is very little specificity. It's mainly about implanting a visual cartoon --- "masturbatory feel-good sessions" and has nothing to do with what we are actually doing, or ,if it does, there is no solid or specific argument to give it weight. It is also about, as Chris Hooten has pointed out, embracing a defeatist (and implanting into any suseptible minds here) path that makes actual political movement impossible (mainly be stipulating that it is impossible.)
Don't get me wrong. The other half of me - that you don't see a lot of on Brad Blog - is working long hours to develop sustainable communities and much of that work does involve building local economies free of locally-unaccountable (and almost always unsustainable) corporate control. Yes, Erma's right. It has to be done. She's also right that we should be peacefully protesting. She's wrong and willfully diffuse elsewhere however.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 8:30 am PT...
arry - Why not do both? Protest in the streets as well as use the internet? The illegal's got the attention by marching in the street. Suddenly Congress listened, albeit not for very long.
I think a massive peaceful protest nationwide, and then keep up the momemtum with e-mails to Congress and the media. Let them know we are watching.
As for marching with our vote, well until we know our vote is counted that is blowing in the wind. Although I've wondered why can't we have a choice in voting manual or machine. That would be a definite message. Again, that is considering this administraion gives a damn what you or I want or think.
I believe it needs to start locally, putting pressure on local pols...then move upward.
States need to start removing power from Federal hands and take it back. Citizens can be heard at a lower level.
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:00 am PT...
Why don't we boil this down to one simple sentence...Haas is stopping democracy. Is that correct? It has to boil down to one person stopping it. If you boil it down to one guy, if it's Hass, hammer that guy.
Watch out for fraud in Connecticut, with Lieberman & ChoicePoint.
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
KEVIN SCHMIDT, STERLING VA
said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:15 am PT...
This is a test for the Democrats. If this obviously stolen election is allowed to stand, then this November, Democracy will fall for good.
Three cheers for the DNC for taking the lead! They are the only Democratic organization is Washington worthy of receiving donations. Send them all the money you can spare!
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:23 am PT...
Erma obviously hits a nerve with the cliquish regulars every time she accuses them of wasting time pontificating instead of taking to the streets.
But I think Erma's right - there's nothing to be accomplished in this area through the established politico-judicial system. Only the masses can turn this around. Those in power dont care if a few hundred people are talking about reform on a puke-green blog, no offense (though there's nothing to stop them from having someone keep an eye on 'em;) but get a sea of humanity out there and they will start paying some attention.
Unfortunately, their strategery of perpetuating the global warming so people are not willing to leave their air-conditioned boxes until the next wave of mass hysteria is whipped up before it cools off a little (remember September is when they roll out their new products) is working out just fine.
On the other hand, I do think if the msm can be turned on strong to this issue it could have the same effect as masses in the streets, so maybe lets not stop the pontification just yet.
But a little respect for your elders! I dont think Erma's posts cross the line into mean insults, and puhlease stop being so paranoid about undercover trolls! I love you Erma!
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:48 am PT...
# 58 - Texaslady --- I agree. Do both. Anything asserting citizen integrity is good. (We're talking about integrity again. That appears to be the main thing.)
Voting is also asserting citizen integrity. And the key word is "asserting". Make 'em rig the elections and then convict and hang 'em. Don't make things easy for them.
Brock Samson - I hardly see how pointing out an error indicates "hitting a nerve". What are you talking about "the masses", anyway? Don't you think we are the "masses" on Brad Blog? Actually, we are. If you think blogs are having no effect, you are not paying attention.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:54 am PT...
I don't know if you could say the DNC is taking the lead, but hell, at least they finally (a day late and dollars short) made it to the party...
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:19 am PT...
My # 57 --- Of course, I mean "susceptible" and ..."mainly by stipulating that it is impossible."
Jeez, you try to make a point and those little words...
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:34 am PT...
The regulars here are not cliquish. They're just regular. And "puke green"? Nice. Way to go keepin' it friendly-like, Brock.
I mostly agree with you, but as to
"...I think a massive peaceful protest nationwide, and then keep up the momemtum with e-mails to Congress and the media. Let them know we are watching..."
I agree with that too, but...this is what we've been doing for several years now. Surely you remember the worldwide protests in the February just before the war. MILLIONS in the streets in country after country after country. And it glanced off their evil hides like...I dunno...it was like throwing toothpicks at a steel door.
No...not quite like that, because if we continue to be RELENTLESS, I believe it DOES have an effect. So I can't give up.
I've been to several street protests since then, large & small, signed petitions, sent emails & letters, made phone calls....as have most of you here, I'm sure. Maddening. Frustrating.
So part of me says FUCK YES, ERMA! Why aren't we POURING into the streets, goddammit?!
The truth is, we're not & we won't. We're not starving. For too many people, it's not personal yet. Saying it needs to happen will not make it happen.
You know, I couldn't donate to the handcount effort in San Diego up to now. But now I can. That's one toothpick I can throw.
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:39 am PT...
Texaslady #58 --- I agree with your last two statements, too. Much local work of the much maligned Green Party is involved in the area of local empowerment. But, of course, the issues transcend party, and people from various political backgrounds are seeing the necessity of citizen reassertion of sovereignty in the face of massive blocks of power asserting themselves.
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 12:12 pm PT...
Yes, and that is why they fiddled with not renewing the Voting Rights Act. They know that they have a better chance of people not noticing their thefts if the margins ... the percentage ... is not too far away from exit polls.
They more dems and indys, etc., they keep from voting the closer the margin.
And they know that a couple of percent will do to the street folk, even tho exit poll scientists can figure it a hell of a lot closer than than with sufficient data.
So they battle like hell against America instead of for American democracy. They are deceived.
What a crock son of sam. There is no real poster here who is an 87 year old woman who wants to take to the streets to save America.
Sh*t wake up and detect the patterns.
Things change. The brick and mortar vision is not the only game in town.
As a matter of fact, the net has the brick and mortar folk not only shaking in their boots, they have the brick and mortar folk putting up websites.
Dig it. This is the 21st century way to bring down the republican dictatorship.
We don't have to go out and get beat by neoCons who fondle themselves as they beat on patriots.
We can actually bring down a Diebold from this very location where our background is earth green and where the letters we craft our art with is the color of a beautiful sunset or sunrise.
Our enlightenment happens as our souls morph from our heart thru our keyboards and into the American psyche with a power that speaks the same language everywhere ... so :0 or fellow blogger:
Smile at me
I will understand
it is something
does in the same language
Don't even count us out!
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:13 pm PT...
sorry about the puke, lets just say forest green, but then lets not get carried away thinking this is anything more than a little wood with a few elves and fairies running around. bradblog does not represent the masses, not yet anyhow. while im not denying the possibility that one or two halflings can bring down the foul beast, a little more old school protest wouldnt hurt when youre trying to build a truly mass movement. lets admit the true dimesnsions of the universe of public opinion in this country, and what it will really take to make election reform happen. this kind of thing here, while maybe necessary, aint anywhere near sufficient.
i still believe in you Erma
pass me some of whatever you been hittin on dreddy (son of sam that i am)
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:39 pm PT...
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 1:48 pm PT...
# 30 Chris Hooten
I meant that we can trust the judgement of a private citizen (like a schoold board member) more than we can trust any professional politician.
In fact, the People are the only ones with any sense left. If anyone "saves" us--it'll be the People--not politicians.
It doesn't take a genius to see what's wrong.
# 31 Agent 99
The National Initiative for Democracy is not a "completely new form of government".
It's an amendment to the system we already have because we're smart enough to acknowledge that the way it's set up now is not working.
That Constitution is OURS.
It's for WE, the People--to make adjustments as we see fit. The founding fathers could not forsee everything. Their watch was over 200 years ago. It's our watch now. In fact, IF you bother to read about this concept--one of the founding fathers had to use this very proposed change themselves.
It's like the rules at your local church. If they aren't working--you change it.
What is so scary about that?
To my mind, it's way more scary to let the criminals run wild with our beloved country while we're afraid to take the actions necessary to stop them.
They think we are sheep. They COUNT on us being sheep.
I hope you are not typical, Agent 99.
We cannot be too faint-hearted to tackle the problem at hand & rise to the occasion.
The National Initiative for Democracy will put the fear of God in those greedy government whores & end the corruption. You won't see sociopath politicians anymore--there won't be anything in it for them. You'll see normal men & women who want to delve into the problems we face & find the best way. Like it should be--hey--here's a new concept--PUBLIC SERVANTS.
I mean, Cheney & the monkey are ruthlessly raping us & the rest of the world; invading contries for no reason, taking away our rights, changing the economy to favor big business, overtaxing us & undertaxing the rich, ruining the environment--we all could go on & on.
WE are ultimately responsible for what these jackasses are doing. In the eyes of the world, WE are war criminals--not at all unlike the Hitler situation when his people let him invade other countries because they were afraid.
You say now is not the time.
When is it going to be the time?
Open your mind.
We should go at this corruption problem from all levels at once. Fighting election fraud here is very important. What about all the rest of the corruption?
Have a plan B.
If you take the time to study the National Initiative (www.ni4d.us) & see the kind of good people who believe in it, try different scenarios of it out in your mind, etc.--you wouldn't be so afraid of it.
The world is counting on us to succeed.
We can't let them down.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 3:00 pm PT...
Bravo, Dredd! ....you wax poetic:
"...this very location where our background is earth green and where the letters we craft our art with is the color of a beautiful sunset or sunrise..."
I've been meaning to put in my two cents about the colors of this blog for a while now. Every so often someone complains & I always find it curious, since I'm quite comfortable with these colors, & anyway there are so many momentous issues on which to focus that the complaints always struck me as odd.
Brock...wow, you really have a way with words, heheh. Now it's 'elves & fairies'. You really must stop trying to win us over with all this flattery, son!
Anyway, re the whole "take to the streets" thing:
like it or not, the people will not do it alone, because millions of us are plugged into the media & into following our so-called "leaders". Deeply ingrained habit. But look at Mexico. This is what Obrador did:
"...At the rally last Saturday in Mexico City, he played video and audio tapes of the evidence of fraud on a screen eighty feet tall. Imagine if Gore had projected the "scrub sheets" of purged Black voters on a ten-story-high screen in front of the White House..."
(Are you listening, Mr. Gore? It's not too late, though very soon it WILL be!)
That quote is from Palast's new piece "Why Democrats Don't Count"
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 3:00 pm PT...
I guess I was just trying to say that the focus has to be on getting our votes back, clean elections, or there is no use at all in going after any Constitutional Amendments. Without the vote, the only Constitution amending will be done by those who most assuredly will have NONE of this We The People branch of government you suggest.
I would love to take the time to study ni4d, and plan to, AFTER I'm out of devote-all-my-time-to-election-integrity-mode. And, it would, for me, require quite a lot of investigating, thought, weighing of strengths and weaknesses... so I imagine the same would be true for others. I wasn't meaning to cast aspersions on the idea you have brought to the table, I was expressing my feeling about the priority of ideas right now. I hope you were not offended.
And I am acutely aware of the world counting on us to succeed. Indeed, I feel the whole world will be ruined beyond recall if we do not.
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:09 pm PT...
Thanks for keeping this story alive, Brad. You're a national treasure
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:32 pm PT...
Thats a beautiful picture of Mexico 99, it brings tears to my eyes. I remember when we stormed the capital here in Madison WI after 2004, all 120 of us...
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:33 pm PT...
Brock Samson - Well, the question then still is, "who are the masses?" and what "represents the masses"? Fox News?, Rush Limbaugh?, the blogosphere? Is "the masses" a useful concept? Does it have meaning (apart from what the phony Republican populists assign to it?)
I agree with Joan. "Citizens" is a useful concept, but "the masses" will be useful in terms of protest when it it is clear to people that the situation is "personal". Making it clear is part of what we are doing on Brad Blog.
COMMENT #76 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 4:52 pm PT...
I know what you mean. Sometimes I think I oughta move to Mexico, or Venezuela, or Bolivia.... It's part of why I get mad at Erma: I don't need any more feeling of defeat, thank you; I have to put my energies into something that stands a chance in hell. Heck, I've been appalled we have not been in the streets in those numbers over countless things for quite a few years... for all the good that did me.
I think we will get in the streets in those numbers when the critical mass has lost enough to be as hopeless and hungry as the Mexicans who were brave enough to stay at home and try to make their country better. So. I'm going to be brave enough to stay at home and try to make my country better, but, wow, that picture makes me cry too.
THE DNC BETTER BE MAKING THE COUNT HAPPEN IN CA-50!
COMMENT #77 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 6:08 pm PT...
The idea of protesting is a great one. There is one huge flaw... Who will show it on TV ? The Pope said "if it isn't on TV it didn't happen" Who remembers the thousands of people around the world that hit the streets over the war ? The press didn't make anything of it... it didn't happen. Remember the MSM that won't report what Brad will?
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 6:19 pm PT...
cmon dude, I'm just talking about a sh*tload of poeple, a significant portion of the population of US citizens if you rather, statistical siginificance: what do you think is the percentage of people who believe in an urgent need for electoral reform? I dont think we have the numbers yet, if we do we need to show them, like they do down under.
Thinking about mexico makes me realize the problem with our dem candidates lately is that they think what Obrador is doing - whipping up the "masses" - is somehow beneath them, low-class even, they dont want to look like those uncivilized mexicans and ukranians. theyd rather give a polite concession in order to keep up appearances.
COMMENT #79 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 6:45 pm PT...
Don't suppose many have been thinking about how the Democrats might simply be terrified of getting anthrax in their coffee, and the planes they take crashed into mountainsides, or their home districts being the ones Vice-Fuhrer Darth Fudd picks for the next time he wants to whip-up enough mass hysteria to let them rape the rest of the world with our military might.... Just sayin'....
COMMENT #80 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 6:59 pm PT...
I think it's more "don't rock the boat". The whole structure of corporate America in relation to American citizens is set up to prevent rocking the boat and disturbing the engine of resource extraction and turning it all into a profit (increasingly for a very few) and into the whole corporate carnival we live in. The corporate mainstream media is the primary middleman between the reality behind the curtain and the useful and basically commodified population of the U.S. Any corporate politician, of course, serves the same purpose.
So, if the "masses" are key to we certainly have to determine ways to actually get the "shitload" of people. They will not form from air. And we certainly can't say, "Masses, hit the street!"
No, there is a lot of political work to be done, and I am attracted to Brad Blog because 1) Brad seems to fit well into the my second paragraph # 19 and 2) I have tremendous respect for the bloggers here who represent (what the heck) the masses, at least the intelligent, aware, real citizen wing of the masses. (Many of which, I should add, certainly don't share all my views, but that's fine with me.) I think we are doing historic work in a vital medium.
COMMENT #81 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:24 pm PT...
For the record, Agent99, you snuck in there between Brock and me. My response was to Brock. Not that I don't cherish responding to Agent99.
In response to you. Maybe. There you have my take on it.
COMMENT #82 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:28 pm PT...
No, really...It could be, but it seems that some brave soul or someone with a death wish would spill the beans and say, "Here I am. Do your worst."
COMMENT #83 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 7:33 pm PT...
That's what we should always bear in mind while voting for candidates. That is, of course, if we ever get to actually vote for them again....
COMMENT #84 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:52 pm PT...
Can someone explain to me why anyone other than the San Diego Registrar's Office should have to pay for the vote count? They violated the law, they need to count the votes to prove the numbers. In reality, the election should be voided because they cannot prove that it wasn't hacked since security was breached. This is sooooo simple. Why does the DNC allow others to divert us from the facts?
COMMENT #85 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:59 pm PT...
Agent99 --- I think I may be slightly more optimistic than you in regard to elections. I think the RFK Jr. Papantonio whistleblower suit might break open things enough that it acts kind of as a magnet to attract the other things we are aware of into the public eye - assuming we keep pushing the issue.
Trouble is, are we sure the suit will be well under way in November - whistleblowers on the stand, etc?
Debra Bowen may be elected in California. Regardless of how her campaign is handling the Busby/Bilbray issue, I personally have no doubt she will tackle election reform if she's elected.
If we can't get the thing fixed by November, there will have to be a confrontation of some sort (which we should also be planning for) because losing our right to vote is not an option.
Maybe we will be working like hell and we'll wake up one day and say, "We did it!" Things sometimes happen that way, you know. It's the working that's the focus now.
COMMENT #86 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:07 pm PT...
For sticklers, I should say losing our right to citizenship in a representative democracy is not an option. That's what it amounts to.
COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:11 pm PT...
I am so sick of the Democratic "Wimps!" When are they going to FIGHT?
COMMENT #88 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:17 pm PT...
Darn good question! Perspicacious as all get out.
I hope I didn't come off as not having optimism in my heart for our chances! I just once in a while try like crazy to find some good, or at least understandable, or at least reasonable-to-them, excuses for why they have been such an awful, drop the ball, opposition party. I want to think of them as more humane than so blanketly venal. I haven't a clue though... or, really, I have too many clues!
I'd be floored if Kennedy and Papantonio get those suits in the open before November. They're gonna try to stonewall, and run out the clock on that until after the elections... UNLESS there are enough left in high enough places to subvert that tactic. I'm going to hope for that one with all my might... and work for it too, if I can see a way.
ABSOLUTELY! WORKING'S OUR FOCUS NOW! TIME IS FLYING RIGHT ALONG. TIME IS A DAMN SPEEDING BULLET.
COMMENT #89 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:18 pm PT...
No, you don't understand.
We don't need their ok to adopt the Nat'l Initiative.
A cursory overview will show you how we will put it into place.
I wish everyone would please take the time to give it a fair shake--it's our civic duty to fix our corrupt govt. & this is the best way I have found that will work. It may not be perfect--but it will put an end to most of the serious mess we have now.
I was all for 'taking to the streets' myself, considering I came from that era. Because I didn't believe any other way would be successful.
It's difficult to get young people riled over the state of our govt. because they think corruption is just the status quo. They've accepted it. I can't really blame them.
15 years is considered a generation & corruption is all they've known--from the Presdent of the US claiming he didn't lie because it depends on how you define "sexual relations", to Enron. They don't have that same reference older citizens have re how it used to be. Not that it was ever perfect--but it was way better than this.
(Actually, I believe if we could organize a one day 'flip off' to our govt--we'd get their attention. More than a big demonstration would. Everyone that possibly could--just don't go to work that day--call in sick. Lost revenue is all they understand. Hit em on the head with it. Granny had the right idea. They only speak in Dollar, not in English. We must speak to them on their level.)
The young don't seem to realize Bush could invade Iran tomorrow, start the draft & off they go to come back in a body bag. (Bush has changed certain ways they do the draft with women drafted too & certain groups of skilled citizens going first--for instance, those in health care, from what I understand) Or that the young will literally pay for this Iraq debacle all their lives. Or that it's their earth that Bush is ruining.
The young just don't get it. Or maybe they are too cynical to believe they CAN change it. I don't know.
But even mass demonstrations & revolution itself will not solve our problems because it is the system that fosters the corruption. Our system will always be corrupt & we will always be the losers unless we CHANGE it.
What is that old saying?
If you continue doing the same thing over & over but expect a different outcome--you're insane or.....a Democrat? Ha. (Just a joke I made up.)
We can't let these politicians run wild any longer. They had their chance--& they've been found wanting, to say the least.
Time for us to step up to the plate & represent ourselves.
I had a thought that we could all read up on the Nat'l Initiative & discuss it. See what the group thinks.
COMMENT #90 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:46 pm PT...
Right on Donna - #77!
I agree with you. They didn't show too much of the huge Seatle protests a few years back. They showed even less of some big antiwar protests in DC.
There has to be so many people that the masses come out. This would take a bunch of leaders who were Dem and Green and Libertarian and Republicans with ethics getting together and getting the word out.
They'd have to all stand together while somebody says, "Come to Washington, come stand beneath monuments to Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln; come listen as we show you how your democracy has been stolen, and help us take it back. Come next month, the 2nd Friday. Stay thru Sunday. Plan to storm media buildings - peacefully, of course - until they put us all over the TV. If you can't come, stay home from work on Friday and watch us online and stall the economy for that day. We'll help you find a job if you get fired. We'll have a bunch of great bands playing and great actors speaking and a free speech alley where there will be PAs and video and microphones and moderators to allow anyone to speak and be heard worldwide online. We need volunteers to save our country. If you can provide media, do it, if you can provide music, do it, if you can provide busses to bring folks, do it, money in gas tanks, peanut butter sandwiches; if you can provide anything to this event, please come prepared to give of whatever you can offer..."
What if somebody was saying this kinda stuff? That may be what it takes after the November elections when the polls say people overwhelmingly want Dems elected, yet the Pubs gain strength... And if we're not ready to do that, god help us...
COMMENT #91 [Permalink]
said on 7/15/2006 @ 11:53 pm PT...
Yes, I think I see where I mistook you, Charlene. Gotta think on it, though still, and I really am trying to work on November's election as hard as I can, and I don't see how in the world we'd get, what?
Signatures before radically more serious damage is done. So. ??? It's a good idea to bring to the table for sure. Thanks.
COMMENT #92 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 1:45 am PT...
That is a point I repeat from time to time. We get one FREE legal count. The burden is on the election warlords to prove the election has been legal.
Unless and until they do that then we demand a COUNT, not a recount. And all one free COUNT scenarios do not cost anything.
After the election warlords do that, then if we want another go at it, that can be called a REcount. Then a demand that we must pay is more reasonable.
But to pay the election warlords for the first legal count is tyranny.
COMMENT #93 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 2:05 am PT...
99 #88 (heh)
xargaw's question was perspicuous as well.
COMMENT #94 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 2:14 am PT...
It was all I could do to keep from adding perspicuous to perspicacious to give you a double-whammy! Figgered I ought not to hot dog you to bits, but you were up for it! Tee-hee!
COMMENT #95 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 3:26 am PT...
In #30, I kind of mixed truth with sarcasm in a confusing way. I understood what you ment Charlene. Sorry.
COMMENT #96 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 4:40 am PT...
Imo, about all of this, I think thats what Charlie Rangel is trying to do to elevate the number of masses in the streets in his own cynical, sly way
and he might be right too
Out of anything I've talked about to "Average Joe/Jolina American", the draft seemed to be the deciding factor of when they were going to hit the streets, especially the PTA/soccer moms
You just tell them a matter of factly, that theres going to be a draft, their nostrils flair and they say, "there better not be", so good to see anger like that instead of anger directed to a whole population on the other side of the world for a change, which is what I usually see from them
COMMENT #97 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 8:26 am PT...
I've been visiting your site for a half year now, and recently, donated to the cause. I have also sent your site via email, to friends suggesting they donate. To me, nothing is more important than what you are doing, Brad. Thanks
COMMENT #98 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 9:25 am PT...
I do a monthly donation to Brad Blog. It's painless. I don't even notice it anymore. It's a good way to go.
COMMENT #99 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 10:35 am PT...
If we don't get the elections corrected then we may be facing WW III:
Former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich says America is in World War III and President Bush should say so.
Yes, Newt the father of the September 1994 "Contract with America", is now the father of "Combat America".
And he is tying it in with the mid-east:
He said European leaders and some in the Bush administration who are urging a restrained response from Israel are falling short of what needs to be done "because they haven't crossed the bridge of realizing this is a war."
Once that's accepted, he said, "Israel wouldn't leave southern Lebanon as long as there was a single missile there. I would go in and clean them all out, and I would announce that any Iranian airplane trying to bring missiles to resupply them would be shot down.
Somehow he seems to be invested in Diebold and oil futures.
Daddy Warbucks is the role model of these architects of the republican dictatorship.
COMMENT #100 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 10:37 am PT...
I hope that every person on this network will prepare selections of this information to transmit to members of their own personal and professional networks. As ought be evident to all, this issue transcends any partisan issue. The only beneficiaries of vote fraud are the greed and power mongers of corporate America who have been working to transform our democracy into a despotic, fascistic oligarchy.
COMMENT #101 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 12:01 pm PT...
Shannon #90 --- Sounds like you are thinking about it. Somehow, it will probably have to happen. We won't go out with a wimper. (We won't go out at all.) It is definitely not too early to start planning it at the same time that we are bringing into national consciousness the urgency of the situation and working on all the angles.
Speaking of big gatherings, where is the election integrity movement in Camp Democracy? There are problems with spreading issues too thin, and I am not speaking at the moment of what must be done after November, but "democracy"? The election integrity movement should be very prominent there. I hope Brad, Mark Crispin Miller, Thom Hartmann, Bobby Kennedy, and others blow the crowd away with a vivid delineation of what is happening. Some of that crowd may be back later and bring others with them. I see Velvet Revolution is involved.
COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 12:13 pm PT...
#99 Dredd --- This is war. War. It's waaar. Somehow I caught chickenhawk Bill O'Reilly shortly after the criminal invasion of Iraq rolling the word, savoring its tone and meaning, trying to get it into as many sentences as possible.
And Newt...flexing his chickenhawk flab and savoring...
COMMENT #103 [Permalink]
said on 7/16/2006 @ 9:32 pm PT...
Once again, the “facts were fixed” ahead of time. That happened probably when they were at Camp David and had their “pose". Bush swaggered up with the hands in the old gunslinger position. Said a word or two to the reporters, then snuck away on a different helicopter and surprised the boys in Iraq. A peculiarly excited countenance on Rumsfeld though, an aura of breathlessness of tyrannical secrets abrew, was upon him. Either that or he lost control of his bodily functions and his little shoe-boots were sloshing.
Bush wants to go to war with Iran, but it would look as uncouth as Iraq was, and we have no great wealth and won’t support it. Timing for the G-8 meeting was no happenstance. (Of course, it was planned!)
Israel had been pushing and shoving a bit for some time, but no over-action until Bush was “eating pig” in Germany. Were we surprised? Not. Bush says, “Stay the course” in different words, but same. He meets privately to schmooze with Pootie, as he called his Russian friend, (attempt to work up a deal.) Stepped in it a wee bit with Putin, received a public slap or two from it, but still all are smiling and laughing for the photo-op. Putin had a more professional demeanor,(a more serious face.) They may have had too much of the vodka. Bush would not let Russia into the WTO however, so not “Disaster accomplished” yet.
So, it was Syria’s and Iran’s fault for everything that is happening between Israel and Lebanon. Can we wonder why protestors in Israel were screaming, “It’s George Bush! He’s the one behind all this!”
Bush would not dare to jump into a preemptive war again, Right? So, what could the maestros of this messy scene have in mind? ... Anger Iran and Syria enough, perhaps, just perhaps, their foulest dreams would come true! They might attack Israel, and then, the father of all nightmares for us all. The G-8 would back Bush to begin the war on Iran and Syria that MSM has been hoping for. The first description of a missile into north Israel was that it was a “silkworm” missile. I have not heard that used since.
Coreesa has been squawking about this being their “script” for days in comments to various articles over at HuffingtonPost.com. She thinks these staged events will knock out our upcoming elections if the script is successful. She’s right!
I’ve got a question or two:
What if the Iranians and Syrians don’t act accordingly to their anticipated (psych-ops) moves and attack Israel?
What if they just sit back and watch as Bush is doing, so to speak?
What if the G-8 and the UN do not back Bush in the beginning of this war described as WWW III? Sanity and better judgment just could prevail!
COMMENT #104 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 12:25 am PT...
THE MEDIA ARE OUR ENEMY --- do not EVER forget that.
I just got a chance to see the video of the "Dean Scream" again tonight (Chappelle used it in one of his "lost episodes") and it is SOOOO innocent and meaningless.
Yet, the right-wing dominated and corporate-controlled media spin machine managed to use it to DESTROY Dean's 2004 campaign within a week.
THE MEDIA ARE OUR ENEMY. They are the equivelent of the industrialists in Germany in the early 1930's who put their support behind Hitler, thinking he would be "good for business."
THE MEDIA ARE OUR ENEMY. We are all we have.
P.S. And to whomever said that blogs are the new protest... NOPE. They are just the new "grapevine." Feet (and guns) in the streets will always trump cyber. Cyber is just a good tool to GET more feet INTO the streets.
COMMENT #105 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 4:58 am PT...
Greg Moore of the DNC is quoted as saying:
This is no longer about whether or not Busby or Bilbray won the election on June 6th. This is about the importance of verifying the facts related to election and voting machine irregularities in this race and the need to ensure an accurate count of all votes cast in this election so that the electorate may have confidence in the announced results in future elections.
(see Brad's opening discussion above). And that is a fact. Much depends on the public perception of elections.
That is why the election warlords use fluff words "don't worry, be happy", to try and use pablum as if the issue involved kids in a sandbox.
That is why Lou Dobbs and Catherine Crier call it like it is: A clear and present danger to American security by destabilizing its democratic institutions.
COMMENT #106 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 7:08 am PT...
Someone from the DNC said the words "voting machine irregularities"??? I'm cleaning my glasses, and re-reading that...
COMMENT #107 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 9:27 am PT...
Charlie L to the DNC: "Show me the money!"
COMMENT #108 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 9:54 am PT...
Anybody know about a precinct in the CA-50 where there were apparently only about 300 voters who mostly voted by absentee, but there were THOUSANDS of votes reported for Bilbray?
THOUGHT I heard this on Tom Hartman's local show this a.m., but not positive I heard right.
I can't find ANY results for the Special Election (as opposed to the Primary) on the Calif. Sec. of State's site. Do you suppose they have something to hide? Or are they just stupid?
Gee, I guess that ends up being the question I always have to ask about Republicans all the time from 9/11 to Katrina to the massive federal debt and deficit --- are they incompetent or evil?
COMMENT #109 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 2:16 pm PT...
Have a feeling you're referring to this Charlie L (as sent to me by a reader last week):
Look at the percentages of turnout for absentee on pages 32 and 33.
Absentee precinct 999131, 6 registered voters, 6,267 cards cast, turnout 14450%.
Absentee precinct 999103, 24 registered voters, 421 cards cast, turnout 1754.17%
Absentee precinct 999102, 243 registered voters, 4137 cards cast, turnout 1702.47%
The docs referred to, I believe, had been available via: http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/ ... but that site seems to be done for the moment, so I can't give you the exact URL.
These numbers may be explainable in that Mike Haas seems to have combined a bunch of precincts into "999" precints where all absentee ballots are dumped into a single precint number somehow.
Of course, he Haas refuses to turn over almost any detail on any of this stuff, so it's all just best guesses at this time. And, of course, still more reason to wonder what exactly it is that Mikel Haas is hiding.
COMMENT #110 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 2:30 pm PT...
Charlie #108 is there any reason why they can't be both?
COMMENT #111 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 4:15 pm PT...
The DNC should pay for the friggin' recount. What sort of loser opposition party is this?
COMMENT #112 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 4:21 pm PT...
IMHO, it should come out of the pocket of whoever caused the problem, broke the law, or regulations, or gamed the system, or tried to pull it to begin with. And, the DNC should make them.
COMMENT #113 [Permalink]
said on 7/17/2006 @ 5:13 pm PT...
#108 and 110 --- I think "both" generally is the case. As I posted someplace else, much fascist energy is spent in covering up incompetence. Might be related to the "banality of evil". (Hannah Arendt)
COMMENT #114 [Permalink]
said on 7/20/2006 @ 6:09 am PT...
The Republican-dominated Court of Appeal just reversed the writ that we obtained in Bridgeman, Lau, and Doe v. McPherson, which prohibited the Department of Defense from forcing soliders to "waive" their right to a secret ballot.
The forced disclosure of military ballots is in place in 14 states, creating opportunities for voter coercion in close districts that may decide the identity of the next Speaker of the House.
We lost the 2000 presidential race because the DNC wouldn't contest fraudulent military ballots mailed to Florida after the election and bearing no postmark. Shouldn't we be fighting such an obviously discriminatory violation of voting rights BEFORE it costs us the House in 2006?
COMMENT #115 [Permalink]
said on 7/20/2006 @ 8:18 am PT...
The more I read Erma, the more I agree with her. Bet if our families had just been killed and the men taken off to be brutally tortured, we would all be Ermas. I live in an area that has few chain stores and fast food joints..it's amazing what keeping money in the area does for community. Ghandi said peaceful revolution was to make the govt. irrelevant. He advocated not buying England's salt. With us, it's primarily walmart, cable which pushes the propaganda and home depot. everybody would have their own list. Think of the businesses that have closed because of the Clinton's and repubs. nafta and cafta. Venuzuela is putting money into infrastructure, health care, and education. We have "lost" over 2 trillion at the DOD. 9 billion in oil revenues in Iraq. The govt. is selling off national forests, roads and toll booths to foreign countries.(Because the treasury has been robbed) Defense plants to known terroist govts. When would be a good time to take to the streets? I am an old woman, so have at it.