READER COMMENTS ON
"EXPOSÉ: Security Breaches for 'Sleepover' Voting Machines Used in Busby/Bilbray Race Invalidated, Decertified Their Use in the Election!"
(112 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 3:24 pm PT...
Thanks to the link for the petition for a manual recount of all the ballots.
SD County Registrar Mike Haas is unbelievably uninformed about the voting machines in his care. In light of the Hursti II report it seems outright negligent for him to allow those machines to go home with poll workers (or to be used at all).
He is an embarrassment to his profession.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 3:44 pm PT...
My head hurts!
How can so many people still be so stupid about this process?
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/14/2006 @ 3:55 pm PT...
I hope I'm wrong, but Francine Busby looks to me like a John Kerry clone. She DOESN'T GET IT!
Democrats who concede because they can't imagine they've been victimized by fraud are almost as bad as the people who commit fraud themselves. Earth to Francine: McPherson isn't going to proclaim you the winner, because to do so would be admission that he doesn't get it, either. Can you possibly understand that?
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 4:03 pm PT...
Petition for a hand count? Doesn't this automatically make one mandatory? When do the police get called?
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 4:13 pm PT...
Well, well well!!! Any comments, kook-aid drinkers? Nah...not under this article...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 4:15 pm PT...
Lou Dobbs: let's get moving on this story, I know you're reading this. Brad, when are you going to be on Lou Dobbs???
I said, this Busby/Bilbray is important, because it's a test to see what the GOP and voting machine companies can get away with in a blue state before the Nov. 2 elections.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 5:14 pm PT...
These election administrators are operating in the blind and they know it. They have no product knowledge
of these e-voting machines and could give a hoot. They are looking for an easy way to tabulate the vote,..
push a few buttons,... let the machine do all the work to tabulate our votes. We have entrusted them to honestly and accurately add up our votes. They have taken the easy way out and outsourced the vote count to private concerns who are more than willing to contaminate the process. They don't give a damn about exactitude of the vote count. These electronic voting machines are totally undependable.
They have made a mockery of democracy and left it in shambles.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 5:20 pm PT...
I think it's worthwhile to provide a link to the CA Secretary of State's site which describes the process by which anyone can file a complaint about an election.
The Velvet Rev. site is only calling for a recount of the Busby/Bilbray election, but *all* of San Diego county's elections were compromised. Our biggest concern needs to be preventing this from happening in November.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 5:36 pm PT...
RLM, she doesn't look like Kerry, but yes she does not get it
I'm going to shove my link up everyones butt until they all do though. This is a war for the minds of the sheeple, and they are winning until their modus operendi is exposed
please read all of this
(on lookup, I found out I can buy an operendi on E Bay)
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/14/2006 @ 5:40 pm PT...
The Dems have let republicans get away with so much for so long that it has become "SPORT" to see what crime they will pull off next and how they will rationalize it . . .
? ? ? Human Nature or by-design or both ? ? ?
To Be Continued Next Week . . . . .
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 7:01 pm PT...
People from SD-50 need to sue. That is the only way anything is going to be done. I hope someone who lives there steps up to the plate. Good luck, I'll be watching.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 7:13 pm PT...
I posted this in an earlier report about an letter that left
Sounds pretty weak to me. I think Busby, despite the marginal difference, should take a stand and investigate the vote anyway. If there is a discrepancy, then let it be found _NOW_ instead of waiting until next time. Beat it into the ground and then beat into the ground again. This is not the time to roll over and just accept what you are given. I am sick of that attitude. If she is going to represent the people and the people are calling for a recount, then demand a recount.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me comes to mind.
Always challenge authority. Always challenge the people above you. Just because someone is in a position of power does not mean that they know better (see President Bush). Everyone is prone to mistakes, and no one is incapable of lieing or cheating. Stand up, speak out and always always always demand truth. That is my message to Busby.
I want her in office just as bad as everyone else. This country needs some leadership, some heroes or at least something to be proud of.
I put full blame on Busby. If she wants to roll over, then I dont want her in office. This would just be a foreshadow of her cowardice in office. I want someone in office who is going to stand up for the people, not one who is going to roll over whenever she is attacked. This isnt the school board anymore honey, this is the big leagues. Stand up and fight!
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 7:15 pm PT...
Agent 99 has it right: when are you allowed to call the police?
Brad, you've invested a lot into this story and electronic voting machines generally, but can you answer this basic question of 99's? What does it take to press charges? Is it theft? or "theft of a sort" which isn't really a crime? How do you measure damage to a voter? Isn't there somewhere here a basic civil rights violation?
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 8:14 pm PT...
Look at the top of the photo of the Diebold TSx machine--there is no security lock/tie through the holes at the top of the doors to the machine. Did San Diego County use security tape across the doors instead? Not that any of this REALLY matters anyway when all it takes is a screwdriver (on six screws) to gain immediate access to the machine and our democracy.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 8:24 pm PT...
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 8:27 pm PT...
The whole USA should move to VOTE BY MAIL like we do in Oregon!!!
The California vote should be invalidated.
WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE! WE WANT A RE-VOTE!
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 8:40 pm PT...
GTASH (& Agent99) asked:
can you answer this basic question of 99's? What does it take to press charges? Is it theft? or "theft of a sort" which isn't really a crime? How do you measure damage to a voter? Isn't there somewhere here a basic civil rights violation?
Several legal options exist. Amongst them, a contest may be filed by any California elector (that would include me) and a recount may be requested by any California elector (that would also include me).
Both options will cut many bucks which I don't have, of course, but might be able to raise here. First though, San Diego County should do their job and count the damned things themsleves before we've got to start coming up with money to make them do their damned jobs!
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 8:57 pm PT...
[shaking head; well past the point of 'dismay']
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 9:32 pm PT...
Get a job and a life! Have you ever been down to the San Diego Registrar of Voters office? Oh, probably not, since you are sitting on your $%^ by your computer all day long. Go down and see the good job the office and Mikel Haas are doing for the County of San Diego.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 9:44 pm PT...
So what do we do? I've just returned from our local election reform meeting here in TN and I'm stumped.
Whada we do now, both locally and nationally...
I'm starting to think civil disobedience...
How 'bout we hack machines to show outragious numbers and then, after the news shows the incredible results, stand up and admit we did it. Again, I'm talking about hacking so where, say, the Green candidate gets 98% of the votes for any one position...
Wish I knew a hacker; would start to try to figure how to do it...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 9:44 pm PT...
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/14/2006 @ 9:51 pm PT...
#19 phil mccracken - Do you know Ben Dover & Jack Hoff or Patrick Fitzgerald & Gerald Fitzpatrick ? ? ?
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:11 pm PT...
Brad commented: "San Diego County should do their job and count the damned things themsleves before we've got to start coming up with money to make them do their damned jobs!"
He is, of course, correct but I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to say this isn't going to happen, short of some kind of civil uprising. Ignoring and trying to delegitimize all valid calls for recounts or real investigations is part of their established modus operandi, a la Ohio '04. Only legal action might force them to take notice and, since they know that the wheels of justice usually grind slowly, their candidate will be entrenched and "legitimized" before any legal remedy can likely be invoked. That is why they have already installed Bilbray in the mock "swearing in". It's all part of the plan. They've got it all figured out and they're way ahead of us and our silly notions of democracy and fair play.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:11 pm PT...
Great work, Stop GEORGE!
Email me if/when the Huff Po's "Contagious Festival" runs it and I'll link up to it then so it helps the numbers.
Good job! Consider tossing in Haas' quote about "they'd have to be wiling to commit a felony" (and, of couse, can't hurt to toss in the actual URL for BRAD BLOG for those who may not know it at the end)
All smartly done, senor!
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:17 pm PT...
Regarding my #23-
My use of the term "silly" in regards to "notions of democracy and fair play" is meant to be from their point of view, not mine (or ours).
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:37 pm PT...
Technically nobody is yet asking for a recount,.. an
ACCURATE initial count of the votes is what was
being asked for.
But now that it is well understood that the handlers of these machines did not follow the protocols of State or Federal Laws prior to the tabulation of the votes,.. there is reasonable fear that the vote count could now be tainted. Voiding the tainted election and a rerun VALID election now seems to be in order.
We want to be assured in the accurate count of our vote,.. but under these circumstances that is all but impossible to have any confidence the way this election was done/run. These election administrators
should be ashamed of themselves,.. their ineptitude
introduced the element of "TAINT" to this vote count
If gross and egregious NEGLIGENCE was brought into to the election equation and is directly attributable to the short comings of these election administrators,..
the general public should not have to suffer additional financial damage to make the results of this election right. The perpetrator of the negligent conduct should pick up the tab for the recount of the vote,... or the redo of the election.
Do your job,.. tabulate an accurate count of votes,..
give us an honest,.. accurate,.. believable result or suffer the consequences until it is done right. These
elections and the count of our votes are not to be reduced to an elaborate PARLOR GAME,.. these elections are serious stuff!
The continuation of our democracy demands it.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:37 pm PT...
I knew I forgot something. I'll make that addition as soon as I get a chance.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep you posted with The Huffington Post.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:41 pm PT...
I did put your link on the diary page. But, when I make the addition, I'll include the link in the flash file.
It's also cross-posted at My Left Wing, and Booman Tribune.
Keep up the outstanding work, Brad!
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
said on 6/14/2006 @ 11:56 pm PT...
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:07 am PT...
“The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them.”
*just a quick note from a disgruntled CA-50 Republican*
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:18 am PT...
Stop George - Comment #22
Nice flash,... nice job.
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 1:01 am PT...
Like the man said:
"Either every vote is sacred, or democracy is a sham."
(David Cobb, Green Party presidential candidate, 12/2/04, bold added)
Who the hell is going to even consider, much less really believe, that American democracy is a sham?
We are the empire of the extended self.
If you think something is wrong, out of adjustment, corrupt, disfunctional, or imperfect about MY democracy, then you are my enemy.
Is that not the view and defense of the fundamental concept "MY democracy"?
I mean, really RLM, MY democracy is the best, it is not a sham ... no matter what the facts indicate.
You can conform your facts to "MY democracy" or you can take a hike.
If we could only get the depth of that sentiment and feeling in America, then we could grasp why there is so much resistance, denial, and hostility involved with some of the issues about and around the election cycle in America.
Contempt against those who challenge the heavenly notion of perfect democracy comes from the extended self notion of "MY democracy".
Until we learn some humility, some self awareness, some contact with reality, we in America are going to continue that sham as we worship what is really America.
Unbrideled consumerism, militant capitalism, the pursuit of fattening comfort, all in place of human happiness.
Busby and all of us are simply playing some role in the movie we all fancy ourselves being in ... "MY democracy" ... and it just so happens that the plot is currently a sham, the director is a con man, the actors are self absorbed, and the audience (the world) is not amused.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 1:11 am PT...
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
... oldturk said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:18 am PT...
Stop George - Comment #22
Nice flash,… nice job.
BTW, I made the additions that you suggested Brad.
You may see it here:
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 1:14 am PT...
CA Election Can't be Certified: STOP George Flash
BTW, where's the preview button, Brad?
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 1:32 am PT...
"Self-modifying, dynamically loaded, or interpreted code is prohibited" says the pertinent part of those standards
which would, in the case of Diebold, also include DLL's (dynamically loaded and linked library), which comprise a lot of the Windows CE operating system and most applications running in it.
I can see why DLL's would not be preferred, because they can be replaced ... even dynamically. Windows and many operating systems allow real time downloading of modules from a remote source.
Hell, even the two Mars Rovers operating on the planet Mars have a feature whereby the software can be updated by wireless. They find bugs, fix it, and send it to Mars. The new stuff starts working right away.
Think how much easier it is over a network or modem connection here on planet earth.
But when the entire operating system and applications running in it can be changed by simple copy mechanisms from one computer to another (e.g. laptop to election machine), there is no need for any sophisticated connection.
American democracy, to the extent elections are so very, very vulnerable, is a sham at this time.
It is a faith based election system. Faith in big brother, who always says "I'm not a crook", is the basis of American elections.
Integrity, openness, fairness, and certainty of results in a demonstrable way is not part nor parcel of the process.
It hurts to admit and tell the truth about "my democracy".
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 1:48 am PT...
-- WARNING --
Do not read this post if you are sensitive about multiple party impact "conspiracy theories":
RIAN BILBRAY - REP 76557 49.51%
FRANCINE BUSBY - DEM 69710 45.08%
W. GRIFFITH - IND 5889 3.81%
PAUL KING - LIB 2465 1.59%
So, in CA 50, if the indy and the lib had backed Busby, it would be:
RIAN BILBRAY - REP 76557 49.51%
FRANCINE BUSBY - DEM 78064 50.08%
So is the advent of the multiparty system the reason republicans won in CA-50?
Uh oh ... did I just start a flame war ?
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 3:07 am PT...
I came here on a link from Raw Story. Man, what is UP with the yellow on green here? Are you trying to blind me? It's HORRIBLE, I can't even get past a paragraph without my eyes going blurry.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 3:15 am PT...
One correction in your excellent article. In every Certification that Secretary McPherson has made this year he has failed to make the finding that the voting systems ARE safe from fraud or manipulation. In fact he also has NOT stated they DO comply with state and federal law.
His Certifications this year have transferred over to the counties and the vendors the liability and responsibility to insure the voting systems do comply with the law. In his Certifications he states that the voting systems SHALL comply with all laws, regulations, and standards. If they do not, they are not approved for use. That means that the majority of votes in this last election were processed by un-approved voting systems, an illegal act.
I would recommend that the San Diego Registrar read the report written by Secretary McPhersons's own Voting Technology Board regarding the first Hursti I Report. His won Board stated the Diebold optical scanner should not be used for a statewide election, yet it was. They recommended that there be strict control over the memory cards at all times, they have not been. Next I would recommend he read the Hursti II Report. In that he will find out that these manipulations can occur WITHOUT DETECTION. Why would a perpetrator worry about charges if there is no evidence upon which to convict. That is the inherent problem with electronic voting, it lends itself to providing the method for committing the perfect crime.
Regarding the picture of the Diebold TSx with security tape over the second memory card door that also included the power switch. The machines were also required to have security tape over the two halves of the case so any removal of the case cover would be revealed. San Joaquin County did not comply, and now it appears that San Diego also did not comply. That alone negates the approval for use of this voting system. A commenter noticed the lack of a seal over the covering doors; that picture was taken at the close of the polls, after the seal was removed. There was a seal attached closing those doors prior to returning them.
The important point is the entire case can be removed with impunity and all security seals left intact, while the hacker can do his damage without leaving a trace. That is the inherent risk of electronic voting machines.
The bottom line is this: What is the District Attorney and the Attorney General going to do about the illegal use of these voting systems? Are they going to investigate? What is Secretary McPherson going to do with this non-compliance with his own Conditions for Approval? Just who in government is going to do their duty and uphold the rule of law. Especially when it comes to such a sacred and foundational right as our vote.
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 4:03 am PT...
... Jay said on 6/15/2006 @ 3:07 am PT...
Jay, Brad put a print version link at the end of the article, but I don't think that will help in the comment section though
And Steve #23 gets it !!!
And Dredd #36 ROTFLMAO !!! gets it!!!!!
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 4:12 am PT...
Fantastic journalism and reporting Brad.
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 4:12 am PT...
Tape and Security -
No matter how much tape they put on these machines I will never have confidence they are secure as they all come from diebold, ES&S and other republican owned companies. Especially after hearing the Bruce funk interview and him saying they all had additional memory and that each brand new apparantly identical machine had different amounts of this memory with no believable explanation from Diebold. Lets be honest here these machines are hackable by almost anyone but who are the people comming in constantly to fix these deliberatly faulty machines. No amount of security tape on them once they have left diebold will convince me they are secure. Call the police? I don't think the courts or the police are listening to the law any more. The supreme court is now the Law and they do not obey it. Everyone knows this including Democrats. That is why the Dems are not challenging anything. They know the courts will not enforce the Law. They have seen it in Florida and it is happening constantly.
When democracy is returned the Supreme Court should be made an elected body so they cannot support dictatorships.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/15/2006 @ 5:05 am PT...
Bad news, good news here.
Bad: Francine Busby is impossibly dense, if she really believes McPherson would embarrass himself by declaring her the winner, thus negating her concession.
More Bad: Republicans and voting machine companies have cleared a major hurdle, by conducting an election (Republican wins!) with machines that clearly should have been disqualified.
Good: Debra Bowen now has a glorious opportunity against McPherson. If she plays her cards right (I bet she will), the burden of proof will be on McPherson to show the Bilbray-Busby race was honest, not on "conspiracy theorists" to prove it wasn't. Huge.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/15/2006 @ 5:10 am PT...
For Dredd: The fallacy in your four-party illustration is that those minor-party votes would never have gone to Busby en masse. Reasonably, the best she could have expected was 55-60%, not enough to make the difference (assuming Bilbray got the other 40-45%).
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:08 am PT...
1) Actually it is not a fallacy. It is a hypothesis which shows that there can be ramifications when people do not join together to defeat a danger.
2) It is not mine. I have never brought it up as a reality on this blog, even tho others have. Like election fraud, it is a hot button item which some are not able to face. Add up the numbers. The numbers are what tells the story.
3) The numbers are not mine. And to mention any such scenario I must trust an insecure election machine based system.
4) Therefore, none of us know the real story of CA-50 since the election officials involved are incapable of telling the truth. Therefore, anything to do with analyzing CA-50 is faith based with extrapolations thereon ... we can only take a drink of personal bias and mix it with a little guilt and put it in the glass of faith til bottoms up.
And finally, democracy in the United States is not a function of an open, honest, fair, clear, and certain election system any more.
If we want that we will have to go to the Ukraine.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:08 am PT...
Your Incumbent Protection Election System!
This is the name given to our electoral system in the good ole USA by my pal Chick Westover here in Nashville.
Here's his comment about our state: "It's a closed, circular system: the SoS, elected by incumbents, appoints and oversees the State Coordinator of Elections, who sets the standards and selects the equipment for use in the state; the state and county election commissioners are selected by incumbents and oversee equipment selection and election processes; when the incumbents are reelected, they reelect the SoS and reappoint the election commissioners.
Maybe we should really reform the process by having elected election commissioners, say seven per county, with each voter allowed to vote for only one candidate and the top seven vote-getters getting elected. This would probably ensure some minority party and independent commissioners."
I think we should all start calling the government we are fighting YIPES!
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:16 am PT...
Pursuant to your questioning of my totals, being a good, fair, and open election official, I did a recount and found an error in my totals.
I have corrected it, as a public servant should, and here are the final faith based results:
RIAN BILBRAY - REP 76557 49.51%
FRANCINE BUSBY - DEM 78064 50.48%
In other words Busby's was off .40 because of a diebold (for those who don't know, a diebold is a series of numbers that at first do not add up, but then, do .
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:24 am PT...
San Diego is the land of Roger Hedgecock former San Diego Mayor who was tried and convicted of taking bribes from Developers. Later on a techncality overturned. He is a Right Wing screamer on the radio and
he and his pals would do anything to win.
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:42 am PT...
Yeah Dredd, or a "Gee Wally, what happened?" error
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 6:43 am PT...
Mr. Mills: Exactly! The main issue here, is that Republicans have conducted a 51%-49% GOP victory on illegal/uncertified/unsecured machines, in front of everyone's face, successfully. The "TEST" for what they can get away with Nov. 2 (in a blue state). Just "let it happen", San Diegans, and say nothing...or confront it now instead of Nov. 2.
Random thought: How come its ALWAYS Republicans disenfranchinsing voters? Answer: They would never win if they didn't "mass" disenfranchise voters.
The ONLY party that disenfranchises voters en masse: The Republican Party, the party of corporate America and the rich elites.
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:06 am PT...
Phil Davis #47
Yes, the county there has a fascist oriented government and police gestapo. They were the first to militarize the police ... ages ago ... when I lived on the beach there.
They stole it from Frye because she hung out with surfers I suppose ... Skip was a long time surfer and I used to ride waves in his hood.
Good people, which the republican dictatorship can not allow to gain any power.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:22 am PT...
#10/Judge of judges:
"The Dems have let republicans get away with so much for so long that it has become "SPORT" to see what crime they will pull off next and how they will rationalize it . . .
? ? ? Human Nature or by-design or both ? ? ?"
An excellent point, albeit a rather unpopular one in some circles. I'm leaning toward both as the complex variables that contribute to an ensuing failed state allow for all sorts of dynamics. I do think much of it cannot be anything other than "by design," although certainly not uniform from the top down.
Are you familiar with Milgram's social experiments in obedience to authority? It's not much of a reach to understand why many people, be they average citizens or members of the minority "oppositional" (LOL) party, can be bullied and shouted down. Many of the common cultural passtimes serve to create irrational attitudes of submission to authority. The idea being you need to coerce, manipulate, deceive and control as much of the wage slave populace outside of the workplace as possible. Battles for "hearts and minds," less interference and moral opposition, et al.
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:39 am PT...
"We're looking for some timely action by the secretary of state to get us a system for these elections because I don't want to go to jail," Haas said. "I have no intention of going to either Folsom (state prison) or some minimum-security prison that Martha Stewart went to."
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:41 am PT...
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:51 am PT...
Open letter to Francine Busby:
Ms. Busby, it's not about you or what you feel like doing. You may have run an exhausting election campaign and don't feel much like dealing with something as contentious as demanding a manual recount, which is certain to bring catcalls of "sore loser" from the right-wing talk radio shows. But, it's not about you. It's about the people who voted for you, the people who worked their butts off for you, and the people from all over the country who poured money into your campaign. And, most of all, it's about the people whom you would be serving if you had won the election, and whom will be ill-served by a Republican controlled Congress and by Mr. Bilbray, in particular. I think your supporters were expecting a certain level of tenacity and an appreciation for fair and honest elections from someone they were hoping to send as a Democratic representative to Congress. And, I don't think that would be an unreasonable expectation. You have a window of opportunity in which to do the right thing and demonstrate to the people who voted for you that they weren't making a big mistake. Or, you can fold like a cheap lawn chair and demonstrate to the Republican party that nothing they do to swing an election to their candidate will be challenged. At some point, the Republican party may wield so much control over every branch of government and at every level, that a challenge of any kind would be futile. Your inaction and failure to take seriously the signs that this election may not have been conducted fairly or in accordance with the law only help to pave the way to that eventuality.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 7:59 am PT...
Here's a chance to ratchet-up Brad's exposure a bit more. I've now got this a summary of this important story at the Huffington Post's "Contagious Festival". I'm encouraging viewers of this Flash presentation to visit this site.
Please click on this link (and share it with others) in order to improve the rankings. Thanks!
CA Election Can't be Certified
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 8:09 am PT...
I'm really pissed the Dems aren't making a big stink out of this.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 8:13 am PT...
Shannon Williford #45
It sounds like your friend has it correct. His proposal sounds like a good Idea as well. If only we could make it work!
Added my name to the petition.
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 8:15 am PT...
To the folks asking about the preview button - the preview is automatic and appears just below the comment edit box and above the code thingy when you write your comment.
(It's not there until you enter something in the edit box)
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:08 am PT...
Dredd.. I understand your point about how the "other parties" are "subtracting from our ability to have totals to beat the Pugs".. But there are really 2 other problems, as I see it..
First, there is a general idea in our society that "if you vote 3rd party, you are wasting your vote".. That keeps a LOT of people from "wasting their vote" and has them trying to "pick the lessor of 2 evils". That fear underminds our ability to have a realy "multi-party system". If we had a society that voted for "people", and not "parties", we'd have a smattering of "left and right", and the votes would be spread out more. The other problem is the fact that you need "50% of the vote" AND the most votes to win. I can understand why that is, but it also precludes having 20 people running for some office and the "people" liking the candidates almost equally.. But, then, isn't that what a "runoff election" is for? I'm fuzzy on what a runoff is.. but it would seem that it's to take the "top 2 candidates" and hold a vote so you can get more than a 50% count on one of them?
Secondly.. Because I agree that we "need to out the Pugs", it would seem that we need to get the "business as usual Dems" out of office, and replace them with "progressives in Dem's clothing".. That is, we need MORE people fighting as Dems instead of running as Indies or Libertarians or Greens, etc. The problem is, a lot of those seem to have some fundamentally different positions than Dems (but then, so do I about some things) and might have a hard time winning as a Dem. The -other- problem is, the "Democratic party" is willing to support candidates that are NOT winners in Primaries.. that is, there was an article about how they would support Leiberman even if he lost the primary.. So, it seems the "party" knows what's best over the voters.. That would seem to imply that "running as a Dem" might not get you in either as the "party" would still fund "their guy" instead of "the chosen guy"..
It's a mess, to be sure. And I agree, we need a concerted effort to out the Pugs.. but how to do that is the problem.. and the -fact- that Pugs, with a 24% approval in Congress, are STILL getting "elected" shows a bigger problem. In that, you can feel your "guys in office" are total schmucks, but elect more schmucks to take their place... which is what's happening with "conservatives", it seems. Until the "right side of the isle" realizes that almost all of their guys are "bad" and become willing to vote for change, we might be screwed..
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:11 am PT...
Careful about saying that the libertarian and independent voters would have broken for Busby. Many of those were disaffected Republicans, especially for the independent candidate who was endorsed by the Minutemen here.
I think if you look at the total votes above the primary being *only* 17k, the real story is that the independent voters and third party voters turnout was a lot lower than Republican and Democrats. Probably around 18-19%. If they'd come out at around 40% instead (at around double the 17k amount), that would have probably swung it for Busby, as the independent voters in pre-election polls were pretty strongly in favor of Busby. To bad we didn't have a proposition there that would have brought out a lot more independent (non-conservative) voters. That might have made the difference.
Also, it's bad enough when the Republicans prematurely "swear in" Bilbray into the House in that disgusting photo-op. Now one of our own, moveon.org is claiming that Bilbray voted against net neutrality last week and is asking me to send him a note on his stance. WTF? Talk about adding insult to injury to us here in the 50th!
Subject: Rep. Bilbray voted against Internet freedom
Date: June 15, 2006 5:46:03 AM PDT
Your representative, Brian Bilbray, dealt a blow to Internet freedom last Thursday.1
As millions of us raised our voices to defend the free and open Internet2, Internet operators like AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast spent millions lobbying the House of Representatives to kill Net Neutrality. A majority of the House members caved—voting for a telecommunications law that would give these companies more control over what you see and do online.
All eyes are now on the Senate, which considers this issue next. We face a more friendly environment there, but we've got to act fast—the telecom lobbyists are working on every vote.
Can you call Rep. Bilbray to express your outrage, and then call Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer to demand support for Net Neutrality?
Here are the numbers:
Congressman Brian Bilbray
Senator Dianne Feinstein
Senator Barbara Boxer
Please click here to let us know you called and to share how it went:
Tell your Senators to protect Net Neutrality by supporting the bipartisan Snowe-Dorgan Internet Freedom Preservation Act (S. 2917).
When you call your House member, let them know that when the free and open Internet is at stake, that's a serious issue—it affects everything. Voting for any bill that does not protect Net Neutrality is absolutely inexcusable.
Thanks for keeping the pressure on Congress as we fight to save the Internet.
–Eli Pariser, Adam Green, Noah T. Winer, and the MoveOn.org Civic Action team
Thursday, June 15th, 2006
P.S. Here are the relevant votes:
Markey Net Neutrality Amendment (A vote for Internet freedom was "Aye"):
Bad overall COPE telecommunications bill without Markey Amendment that passed the House and gutted Net Neutrality (A vote for Internet freedom was "No"):
Voting the wrong way on either or both was a vote against Internet freedom—for which members of Congress should be help accountable.
P.P.S. After you call Rep. Bilbray and Senators Feinstein and Boxer, are you still outraged?
The best way to fight back after calling Congress is to help expand the reach of our coalition. Ask 5 friends to join our fight for Internet freedom by signing our petition to Congress:
If you are active in local organizations, ask them to join our coalition at:
1) Vote tally on COPE telecommunications law (which guts Net Neutrality), June 8, 2006
2) "House Turns Deaf Ear To Net Neutrality," WebProNews.com, June 9, 2006
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:16 am PT...
Ah... Looks like moveon.org just corrected their mistake in a followup email. Thanks for acknowledging technical problems and mistakes moveon, UNLIKE our government in this case! I didn't figure it was intentional!
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:47 am PT...
Actually Lieberman has been asked not to run as the "pouty indy" if the dems reject him for being a "George Bush Democrat" a la Zell Miller (link here).
The rest of my take on it is in my post # 44.
I think it shows his anti public sentiment, like that of preznit blush. Screw the people and the party if they do not choose me is his mantra.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:47 am PT...
Simple question: Is there going to be a hand recount?
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:57 am PT...
We have our local Dem meeting tonight here in San Diego (in the 50th district), where we're going to do a post-facto analysis of what happened on Tuesday. Any constructive suggestions here from folks here that you'd like to see some activism contend with this? I'd be happy to take them with me tonight!
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 11:01 am PT...
Let me guess, Haas is a Republican, and was probably a member of the Bush Cheney Team in 2000 & 2004, right?
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 11:33 am PT...
So what I'm not getting is why in Iowa where 2 incumbent rs got a hand recount,why Busby is not getting one here? Where is Busby in all this? Is she still doing nothing? My God where is this going to end?
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 11:36 am PT...
Good luck on getting this cat to get his shit right. Looks like he is yet another Repub prostitute....Partial RAW STORY article apparently from last August...That's not his ony crime either.....he seems to be a bit of a dumbass as well..check "Caught with tabulater plugged in".
Asked about CAPE's recount request, Registrar Mikel Haas, responded, "They have every right to do this. We're going to run this by the book." He declined, however, to state how much the partial recount would cost, although noting that cost would depend upon procedures agreed on in the upcoming meeting.
Alter is less confident that Haas will play it by the book, stating that "I believe he is overcharging us." She also believes CAPE should only be assessed $400 ($100 for each of the four election employees) per day. "Now he's going to charge us $2,500--and he's telling us that he's charging us for electricity and the room for the meeting he is going to call, and for all the expenses to staff it," Alter contends.
Caught with tabulater plugged in
Asked by this reporter if the central tabulator was hooked up to the Internet, Haas replied, "Yes. That's so we can get our results out to the Internet, so people can see. It's firewall protected."
But after being informed that hooking the tabulator up to the Internet would potentially render the election illegal, Haas backpedaled and said he may have been mistaken about the tabulator's Internet connection. "I'm not that technical," he noted, then suggested that perhaps the machine was transmitting results to a secondary unit.
Those fears evoke comparisons to Clermont County, Ohio, where Raw Story reported that a recount of the 2004 presidential election revealed that stickers were placed over the Kerry/Edwards oval on opti-scan ballots. Those ballots were then fed into machines after the hand recount. Witnesses have stated that beneath the stickers, the Kerry/Edwards oval was selected.
Haas & McPherson worked on Black Box Certs in 2004. I doubt Haas will decry the very boxes he cert’d are not trustworthy - even when he must know just how F'd these machines are..
From April to December 2004, Haas was a special policy adviser to Ekard, overseeing the county's efforts related to certification and use of both paper-based and electronic voting systems. He also oversaw preparations for the Nov. 2 general election.
"We believe his broad election experience, including his past service as registrar and his more recent involvement in elections over the past year, make him the ideal candidate for the job," Ekard said.
Haas previously served as the assistant registrar of voters, elections officer for the city of San Diego and acting director of the County Community and Housing Development Department.
McPherson, who was appointed registrar in 2001 when Haas took over as Animal Services director, will retire March 17.
Dawn Danielson, a 25-year veteran of the county Department of Animal Services, has been appointed director of the department. She is to take over Animal Services from Haas March 18.
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:01 pm PT...
This is simple.
I guess Busby is FINISHED politically. She has gone off to lick her wounds from her stupid remark about "voting without papers" when she meant (we assume) to say "supporting my candidacy even if you are not allowed to vote."
All I can assume is that Busby will never run for public office again. IF SHE IS PLANNING ON RUNNING AGAIN, SHE MUST KNOW THAT SHE WILL NOT BE SUPPORTED __UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER__ BY ANY FAIR ELECTION ADVOCATE IF SHE DOESN'T STAND UP NOW AND DEMAND A HAND COUNT. (I really can't shout that any louder.)
P.S. 1: What was the final count of PROVISIONAL ballots and how many were considered "spoiled?" This is INCREDIBLY important info, as anybody who has read Palast knows.
P.S. 2: Mail-in elections (Oregon has them) are great, but if your paper ballot is counted by ES&S or Sequoia (100% of Oregon's are) then your election is STILL not guaranteed fair (our incredibly above-board SoS has kept them honest so far, but he can't live/serve forever).
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:38 pm PT...
Sunshine Greeny - Thanks
It's time the Dems go on an all out Offensive (make the lawyers earn there keep) & (the best defence is a good offence) The "underdog" position can be a very powerful position ,,,,, If the paradyme is player out correctly ,,,
It's time the Dems go on an all out Offensive ! ! ! As well as BOOT lieberman ! ! ! ! !
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:45 pm PT...
Voters report glitches at polls
By Leslie Wolf Branscomb
June 8, 2006
(Nancy Myrek, a precinct inspector in Normal Heights,said,
“If you don't have a felony conviction, you're hired.”
- see story below).
Tuesday's primary election, like most, didn't go off without a hitch.
But county Registrar of Voters Mikel Haas said things went well overall, considering how complicated the election process can be.
Complaints were received by The San Diego Union-Tribune from precinct workers who described Tuesday's polling as chaotic. Some polling places opened late. Some optical scanners malfunctioned.
But most complaints were from nonpartisan voters made to cast provisional ballots because they'd requested a ballot for another party.
Nonpartisans, who make up 21 percent of the county's registered voters, may request a “crossover” ballot of the party of their choice, Haas said. They are to be scanned and counted on election day like any other ballot.
Haas said poll workers who insisted nonpartisans vote with provisional ballots were wrong.
In fact, any registered voter may request the ballot of another party, but those ballots have to go into a gray provisional envelope to be hand-counted later, after the election.
Some precinct workers seemed unaware of the rules. Nancy Myrek, a precinct inspector in Normal Heights, called the registrar on election day to check.
“It's been true for years,” Myrek said she learned. “But they didn't tell us that in the training workshops.”
Myrek suggested some glitches were due to inexperienced poll workers. The registrar needed 6,000 poll workers for Tuesday's election and was recruiting hard in the final days.
“Yeah, they were desperate,” said Myrek, who has been a poll worker for more than six years. “If you don't have a felony conviction, you're hired.”
Haas defended the poll workers, who put in 16-hour days or more for minimal pay. “Learning to be a poll worker in a California primary isn't a piece of cake,” he said yesterday. “All in all, these people are angels.”
As far as the optical scanners, Haas said 3 percent to 4 percent usually malfunction. Unscanned ballots are supposed to go in a special box to be scanned later, when the machine is fixed.
Though voters might have been annoyed about it, all the votes will eventually be counted, Haas said.
The remaining 68,500 absentee and provisional ballots should be counted by 5 p.m. Monday, Haas said.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:47 pm PT...
It's also time the Dems must get familier with a "Scorched Earth policy" when dealing with the republican criminals liars cowards & taitors.
. . . No Balls = No Bananas . . .
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:55 pm PT...
calipendance: get them to do a hand recount. Here's the Dems opportunity to prove e-vote fraud, if Busby wins a hand recount...and the Dems hit another infield fly rule pop-out. What's with the Dems???
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 12:56 pm PT...
Dredd #62, he was asked by "Democracy for America", not the DNC.. The article I had been refering too implied the DNC (or DCCC? or something) would STILL support Leiberman, even if he LOST the primary. There was another article about how he might run as an Indie, and now the one from DfA who is asking him to just back off if he loses the primary.
Like I said, it's messy.. And, at the end of the day, I think the underlying point is that the Democratic Party is a total mess at this point. They have fallen into "hardcore politics" instead of giving a shit about the people. It was enevitable as the spectrum shifted so far "right" with the religious types being injected in the 80s.. Dems are playing "catch up" to try and suck up the religious base.
Make no mistakes, the Democratic Party is as dead as the Republicans in the long run. Way too many have sold out and voted with Shrubby on way too many things. Sure, they can't exactly "effect change" being the minority, but they COULD be on the record as "completely oposing the henious crimes of this Administration".. instead, many of our Dems have blood on their hands too.
Which brings us back to these machines and our hijacked election system. If the Dems had any spine, they would have been all over this from the start... but, the were worried about "their image and re-electability".. they distanced themselves because of the negative light being cast by the MSM and radical right. In that they caved in and didn't push these issues in 2004, they walked away from us and left us without any real government "of the people, by the people, for the people".. and now we're on our own.
COMMENT #74 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 3:16 pm PT...
Looks like they fixed the San Diego Registrar site recently, but just up until a month ago the previous, San Diego Registrar of Voters was listed as the Department Head instead of Michael Haas, even though he'd been in office for quite some time at that point. Here's a cached google page of it:
SD Voter Registrar Contact Us page
No public word any place on any relation she might have to Bruce McPherson, but one has to wonder!...
COMMENT #75 [Permalink]
said on 6/15/2006 @ 9:33 pm PT...
For peolpe who posture thamselves as relevant humans, and reasonably intelligent ones, there seems to be an abundance of pure unequivecle sour grapes. Since no one is willing to admit that the actual answers are far deeper than just the electronic machines. Your endless whining is producing a revolting amount of bovine excrement that is loosing you supporters.
The facts are that anyone who is going to participate in the party ritual of thinking in two party system terms is nothing more than a Lemming on their way to the cliffs for a daily walk about. So to those dreay lemmings who have glanced away from the view of their lead Lemming long enough to read this post may I suggest that you pick up the pace you are holding up progress towards the coastline.
Come now you are all the problem those of you who follow party logic from the machine that divides its output into two columns. There are many other choices and one is to think for yourselves. (now there is a concept worth taking note of before you reach the sunset view). Remember there are no condos for Lemmings at the beach.
Each of you who post the endless rants about some small technicality which did not ever exsist until you all followed the leader and voted for the now contested madate that electronic voting be the only voting allowed.
Ah, now don't sit there reading this and deny that you too are a party Lemming who jumped to the conclusion that the false voting problem in Florida needed to change so you voted for the system you are currently challenging with your endless blogging of corruption.
Hell yes there is corruption, but it didn't start with the Bilbray, Busby vote and until any of you is willing to think independant of those party planks you are destined to occupy your valuable time ragging with your rants about something that doesn't mean squat in the "Big Picture", (quotation marks for effect only).
Grow my little Lemming runners before your sacred party comes to force you over the edge to make room for the new batch of runners being culled out of the pack.
Remember that everthing you have ever learned is a lie. Now deal with that bit of reality before you waste more time posting some snippy response to this post. Before you do remember that I for one am capable of actually doing research, and forming my own opinions. That does not make me right or wrong, but it does make me immuned to any of your rhetoric.
Have a nice American day. Enjoy the freedoms you so recklessly dispose of on your way to the cliff.
COMMENT #76 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 2:26 am PT...
COMMENT #77 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 3:40 am PT...
Um. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in your rant there exists a good point posted under good faith, Boyd Applegate, but it's surrounded by so much blathering and over-the-top rhetoric that I'm merely left with the following:
I second that "Huh?"...
COMMENT #78 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/16/2006 @ 3:46 am PT...
COMMENT #79 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/16/2006 @ 5:31 am PT...
Boyd, I'm a writer and editor by profession, and I confess I haven't a clue about what the f--k you're saying.
COMMENT #80 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 6:11 am PT...
He's making - in my estimation - the worthwhile point about the long relied upon tactic of any ruling class used to retain power: divide and rule. Along with taking the position that to be bogged down in squabbles over technicalities is to an extent, to miss the bigger picture of how the public mind has been imprisoned through an illusory sense of choice ...which is coerced, deceptive, systematically, institutionally imposed within the social climate, yet, oddly chosen and embraced.
Except he's being uppity about it.
Oh yeah, and something about cow dung...
COMMENT #81 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 1:00 pm PT...
When is the fucking hand count? The rest is too weightily tedious for the huge population of freaked-out citizens of a country they don't seem to be able to find anymore.
Cut to the chase. WHEN IS THE HAND COUNT?
COMMENT #82 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 2:33 pm PT...
There ain't gonna be no steenkin hand count, if there is it will be fixed, my fellow peons
COMMENT #83 [Permalink]
said on 6/16/2006 @ 7:54 pm PT...
Two-party, three-party, fifteen-party system, it doesn't matter. If one party has got the elections rigged in their favor, it's effectively a one-party system.
I'm sorry. Go ahead and rant. Yes, we're all complete imbeciles for wanting to do something about election fraud. And, it's all our fault that we're having to deal with it. Geez, I wish we had your superior intellect. We must look like ants to you, scurrying around in our silly pointless lives.
COMMENT #84 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/16/2006 @ 8:47 pm PT...
Boyd Applegate's essay reminds of a story I heard "the short arm test" they gave guy's in the military . . .
COMMENT #85 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 1:45 am PT...
Oo! That's heavy man! You're blowin' my mind!
JUDGE OF JUDGES:
What's the "short arm test". Sounds funny.
COMMENT #86 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/17/2006 @ 6:03 am PT...
Slightly off topic, but this is priceless. I attached my name to a mass-mailed letter to Senator Niehaus in Ohio. The letter asked him and Blackwell to "do the right thing" regarding election procedures in their state.
It was a very polite letter. To add punch and to make the point that citizens are entitled to DEMAND clean elections and need not beg for them, I added the word "demand" in the e-mail header.
I received a direct response from Niehaus. Amazingly, he wrote, "I demand that you mind your own business." He didn't have the courage to sign his response, which means if he gets called on it he can blame one of his assistants for being careless.
This is the caliber of person we're dealing with in Ohio.
COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 10:12 am PT...
RLM #86 --- Amazing. Actually, minding your own business (as a citizen) is what you were doing. What exactly is Sen. Niehaus's business?
COMMENT #88 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 10:32 am PT...
# 83 - JIMB - "superior intellect" - Nyet. Boyd has a vague idea of what he wants to say, but his prose indicates he's not exactly sure what it is, so he throws out a mess with a lot of feeling and self-generated anger (and trumped-up superiority to give it "body") and hopes it will stick. If he will take time to figure out how to express it, he may figure out what he is thinking - in which case, it might be a subject for discussion.
COMMENT #89 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 10:36 am PT...
I guess the expression is, "...throws it against the wall and hopes it will stick." ):)
COMMENT #90 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/17/2006 @ 12:35 pm PT...
85.0 L.B. - As I heard In the "old army", After GI's returned from vistiting places with very congenial hosts, they would then have to linup in front of the sarg. and practice to completion for inspection..... primitive vd screening...
86.0 R.L.M. - Secrets, witholding vital info for corporate control, privately owned governmentis here.
We the Mushrooms are Kept in the Dark & Fed Shit . . . . . I.E fox etc. . .
COMMENT #91 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/17/2006 @ 12:44 pm PT...
75.0 Boyd Applegate, I Challenge you to answer the following question:
How Do you Enjoy your Freedoms when you Know you are loosing them ? ? ?
COMMENT #92 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 2:36 pm PT...
If Busby doesn't demand a hand count, I'm switching to registerd Green Party.
COMMENT #93 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 2:37 pm PT...
Feingold, Conyers, Kucinich, & Dean are the only Dems I like. I hate ALL the Republicans except for Ron Paul. So, that's 5 Republocrats that I like...time to switch to a 3rd party.
COMMENT #94 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 2:37 pm PT...
Someone really hast to tell me how an election can be valid on decertified machines.
COMMENT #95 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 2:38 pm PT...
Maybe the Dems aren't vocal about e-vote fraud, because they don't care enough about us.
COMMENT #96 [Permalink]
said on 6/17/2006 @ 2:46 pm PT...
Your Incumbant Protection Election System
COMMENT #97 [Permalink]
JUDGE OF JUDGES
said on 6/17/2006 @ 3:07 pm PT...
COMMENT #98 [Permalink]
said on 6/18/2006 @ 2:54 am PT...
I hope somebody is making a list of all the infantile remarks and excused made by "professional election officials". Kids say the darndest things!
COMMENT #99 [Permalink]
said on 6/18/2006 @ 11:45 am PT...
#75 Boyd something..& His Nibs, #79 RobertLockwoodMills
Boyd is saying the problem with our government is way deeper & more fundamental than just rigged voting machines which we talk about a lot in detail here on bradblog.
He's saying that the entire 2 party system is corrupt & bogus in essence & has always beat us up & dumped on us by those in control of it, yet have not been aware enough of our victimization to reject it outright.
He's saying that since most US citizens have not bothered to read, think, & demand a system outside the box (the 2 party's we have had forever), it's our own fault we have this mess. He says we've been mentally lazy & have played follow the leader instead of thinking for ourselves.
It wasen't hard to understand, even for a person who is not a "professional writer & editor" like you claim you are, RobertLockwoodMills.
You who refuses to admit he was unable to comprehend MY words either!
You accused me of saying it's ok for Democrats to cheat on elections but not Repubs. I'm still hot about it.
Accusing me of this made my friends laugh because I am an infamous stickler for honesty by all, no matter what the outcome, at every high school basketball game, tournament, you name it. Embarrassingly infamous & passionate, Mister, to a fault.
Eat your ignorance RobertLockwoodMills.
(Hey, I should be a writer/editor too. I'm smarter than you are.)
COMMENT #100 [Permalink]
said on 6/18/2006 @ 1:24 pm PT...
I think the only way to fix this corrupt two-party system is for all of us to fly our flags upside down! That'll really stick it to the man!!
COMMENT #101 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 12:55 am PT...
#100 B something
Since I suggested that, I've read 2 others saying it on other blogs too.
It's a sign of distress & a cool symbol for citizens to display their solidarity in a country that's in a state of civil disobedience.
I've since found a better way though...at www.gravel2008.us
I already voted for Gravel's National Initiative. I believe it will do more to fix everything than all of our talk so far.
COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/19/2006 @ 4:24 am PT...
For Charlene: I'm not going to get personal with you. Nor am I going to engage in name-calling; I'll leave that to you and the trolls around here.
But just so everyone else understands what you're going on about, here's a summary. You responded to another poster who asked why liberals complain about the 2000 and 2004 elections but don't complain about the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon election (in that poster's mind, a hypocritical stance) by saying "Because JFK was a wonderful president, and Nixon was terrible." I posted that this was "wrong, wrong, wrong...," because to be consistent on the bi-partisan issue of election fraud, everyone should be against all fraud by either Democrats or Republicans, whether we like the guy who won or not, or whether the fraud was pivotal in the election (which Illinois was not in 1960).
That's what I wrote. I further wrote that JFK's speech shortly after the election, in which he joked about his father's collusion with Mayor Daley in Chicago, had set a horrible example, especially on the heels of a disputed election that Republicans were upset about (as most of us are upset about 2000 and 2004).
You responded with vitriol, demanding an apology from me in sarcastic and childish language. In a separate posting you said I attacked you, which is absurd. I never attack people, period. I responded that I'd apologize if I had reason to, but that I didn't have reason to. Now you're reviving a debate entirely of your own making, on a personal level. Count me out.
COMMENT #103 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 9:35 am PT...
It's called "projection", when someone doesn't answer a charge directly, and says, "Well in 19-something, blah blah blah did this and that." "Carter was spying on us, too." For the NSA charges, which turned out to be a lie, btw... Righwingers don't answer when the shoes on the other foot, though. When they say, "Clinton lied about the blowjob", and we say, "What about Bush lying about WMD's???" Oh, no answer, I forgot...
COMMENT #104 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 9:37 am PT...
Isn't Charlene actually admitting the GOP stole the elections, by saying, "Well Kennedy stole his election."....?????????
"Did you break that lamp?" (to your 2nd grader)
"Jimmy broke a window last week!"
COMMENT #105 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 10:42 am PT...
Charlene sounds like one of those tyrannical battle axes that I had as a neighbor as a boy, I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley
COMMENT #106 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/19/2006 @ 1:15 pm PT...
For Big Dan and Floridiot: I don't know Charlene personally, so I'm not going to judge her motives. She never said Kennedy stole the 1960 election, nor did I ever accuse her of saying that.
What happened was that a troll asked, "Why do liberals complain about 2000 and 2004, but not about 1960?" at which point Charlene replied, "Because JFK was a wonderful president, and Nixon was terrible." I posted that this was "...wrong, wrong, wrong." In this case the troll had been right...yes indeed, we should be consistent, and complain equally about all stolen elections (even though JFK would have won in 1960 even without Illinois' votes). Charlene then accused me of misrepresenting her words, and demanded an apology in strident terms, adding the childish comment, "...I'm waiting!" I simply told her I had nothing to apologize for, otherwise I would have done so.
I assumed that had settled the issue, but she has now revived it out of the blue and added personal invective and name-calling to the mix. Unfortunate, because we have a common enemy to focus on, stolen elections.
COMMENT #107 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 1:26 pm PT...
Shame on you people...I thought you were better than that.
It's a cheap shot to back a guy up when he misrepresents on a blog against another blogger, complete with insults & all, when you don't have the decency to look up the original item first to see for yourself what the spat is about.
What are YOU? Mindless gang bangers?
I thought BradBlogers were intelligent & thoughtful.
Why do you think His Nibs goes to the trouble of summarizing it, yet again, HIS way?
The truth is, His Nibs has an axe to grind over the idea that Jack Kennedy stole the 1960 election, & made a "cavalier" joke about it afterward at a party that made the current election stealing by Bush seem not so bad because, supposedly, the Dems did it 45 years ago & joked about it---according to RLM.
Yes, he believes that.
(RLM has carefully toned-down the language he uses about his pet subject since Brad came out & voiced his own opinion which agrees with mine--that it's all an old "canard" & not true.)
Anyway, apparently, whenever His Nibs comes upon anyone getting near to his pet subject, he sees red & launches into overdrive-rant-mode on his pet subject before reading carefully.
That's what really happened, but RLM's oversized ego won't let him admit it.
Say it straight RLM, don't make up lies:
My answer to why we don't complain about fraud at the 1960 Kennedy election on BradBlog, but we DO complain about fraud at the 2000 & 2004 Bush elections, is because Kennedy was a great President while "BUSH" is god-awful. (NOT "NIXON" RLM! I never mentioned NIXON at all.)
This is true.
Obviously, we would not be here on BradBlog complaining so passionately about Bush if Bush had turned out to be a great President.
I said Kennedy did not steal any election & his joke about it was just that--a joke told 45 years ago & that His Nibs cannot pin blame on Jack Kennedy for setting the climate for election fraud today, which IS what RLM was claiming.
Now, if he's honest with himself first & then with us, His Nibs will admit it.
P.S. Floridiot #105, your moniker is appropriate in this instance.
P.S. Big Dan, your entry #104 is lame, unlike your usual comments.
You've got the whole thing all confused & mixed up. You don't make any sense. Of course the GOP stole the 2000 & 2004 elections. RLM is the one saying Kennedy stole the 1960 election, not me.
That's what happens when you open your mouth & insert your foot without doing your homework first.
But you DID get a chance to get that '2nd grader breaking the lamp' comparison that you're so fond of in there, didn't you, eh?
Investigate before you jump in next time so you don't embarrasss yourself again.
COMMENT #108 [Permalink]
said on 6/19/2006 @ 4:25 pm PT...
COMMENT #109 [Permalink]
Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 6/20/2006 @ 5:45 am PT...
Charlene, in addition to the support I've received in recent posts, all of which seems to bother you a lot, I also received (last night) a private e-mail from another blogger that referred to you in quite unflattering terms. This blogger, whose privacy I'll protect, told of verbal assaults in the past, on a personal level...obviously, you're someone who is unsafe to disagree with.
Now, it seems, I'm "making up lies." Even if you're right that we complain about 2000 and 2004 because Kennedy was a wonderful president and Bush is awful (I disagree that this is reason), it is still WRONG, WRONG, WRONG to do.
And I never said Kennedy stole the 1960 election. On the contrary, I made the point that even if Nixon had won Illinois, Kennedy would still have won the Electoral College...this was to contradict right-wing trolls who claimed the 1960 election had been stolen. I did say that JFK set a horrible example when he joked about his father's collusion with Mayor Daley, and I stand by that. I'd wager that most bloggers here would agree that one does not joke about election fraud in the wake of a contentious election, and I asked you (politely) to consider how you and we would feel if Bush cracked jokes about Katherine Harris colluding with Antonin Scalia, or Blackwell with Rove.
I'm afraid, Charlene, that you've thrown a few too many bombs at people over the years for the sake of your own credibility. You attack people while claiming they attacked you. You misquote people while calling them liars. You personalize honest disagreement. You engage in name-calling against others who don't do the same in return.
In other words, Charlene...you've got real problems. And you're the only person who can fix them, I'd say.
COMMENT #110 [Permalink]
said on 6/20/2006 @ 12:29 pm PT...
Evidently, it's proving difficult for you to square what you've done to me all by yourself, Robert.
Now you figure you'll try & gang-bang me, eh?
And you are the one so fond of trying to claim moral high ground because you don't attack anyone, just their ideas.
Tsk Tsk Tsk...
Well, his nibs has now chosen to take the low road rather than admit a mistake.
The thing is---I tell the truth & some can't handle it.
That's all it is.
I politely corrected someone's misuse of language in passing when I first came on BradBlog because I care about the use of language, & you'd have thought from their vicious response that I'd called them a whore or something.
I saw a guy correct someone's use of language on here yesterday, & it was totally ignored.
You did lie.
It helped your argument to say I spoke of Nixon when you know, & you or anyone can look, that I never mentioned him in any way.
That's a lie.
Trying to garner gang-bangers & bad-mouth me won't change it.
COMMENT #111 [Permalink]
said on 6/20/2006 @ 8:39 pm PT...
I thought BradBlogers were intelligent & thoughtful.
I thought this too, until I was told that flying flags upside down would be the cure for what ails us.
COMMENT #112 [Permalink]
said on 6/21/2006 @ 12:43 am PT...
B something # 111
As I told you the last time you brought this up, flying a flag upside-down is a traditional sign of distress.
I noticed two other blogs have mentioned doing this after I thought of it.
It's a cool way for Americans to show solidarity in the distress they feel the country is in.
Or it could be used as an underground sign for solidarity in civil disobedience against this corrupt & bogus government.
We flew our flag upside down on flag day. When people mention it--it gives you the opportunity to explain exactly why our country IS in distress. So it's also an educational tool.
You may be ignorant now, but you'll catch on to how a protest movement gets started.