Fight for a Real Public Option Continues...

The "fight" will only become a real contest when The People are willing to take it to the streets (as they do in places like France, Greece, Iran, Thailand, etc). What is the chance of that happening in today's US?

Nancy Pelosi probably told Kucinich that he'd be serving his last term if he didn't play ball.

Fuck it, Dennis, run for Prez as an Independent, get Grayson as your VP. My vote is in the bank for you.

Democrats are beyond spineless. Where's my change, you sons-of-bitches? Running this country as if the Repugnants had won the election.

Of course Dennis caved. He always caves. What I heard was that Obama gave him a ride on Air Force One and talked to him. But Kucinich, for all his posturing, is a good Democrat, and can always, just like his party leadership, be counted upon to cave to corporate interests.

Whether Grayson is sincere or is being groomed as the next designated shill for the Democratic Party (the shill is the one who makes it look like there is still at least one good person in the party, as a way to get out the vote for the corporate interests the party represents).

I worked for Dennis starting in Jan. 2004. He is a fighter. He did not "cave".

I been watching him closely for 12 years. Seen him valiantly standing all alone many times take the people's fight, by himself, for us, right into the belly of the beast. Repeatedly. On small issues and large.

I've seen him at some very trying times. It isnt easy bucking your party leadership time and time again on matters of principal. Being illegaly excluded from debates, all media on attack mode since he has been the ONLY one in Washington fighting their masters.

I never have seen a look on his face like the one I saw today. I dont know what was said on that plane ride, but I will bet some ugly threats were proferred.

maybe cheney was there, he and obama shifted into lizard people, then they watched video of the Cheney/rove hits on Wellstone, Connell, Tillman.....my man was shook, had to be terrifying whatever he learned.

Dennis sold out, anyone pretending he did not is kidding themselves. The guy, not even a week ago, was out there saying this bill was a total sellout to insurance companies and it was bad for the people. Yet today, after absolutely nothing has changed (aside from some Obama face time and a ride on AF1) he's voting for it. Read the reasons he lists for why he is voting for it too, it has nothing to do with him seeing any changes that counter his objections. No, he's voting for it because it will help save Obama's political career. What a disgrace. What a sellout.

Right, Bob. Here's the story on the Muckraker:

Kucinich To Vote Yes On Health Care Reform--Here's Why

Saving Obama's legitimacy is a joke. Does the fact that Obama has expanded the wars of aggression and the bailouts beyond Bush's wildest dreams (heck, even beyond Sarah Palin's wildest dreams) make him legitimate? What Obama probably told Dennis was, "You're either with me or you're with the terrorists."

CamusRebel, it is only difficult to buck your organization's leadership if you've joined an organized crime syndicate like the Mafia, the Ku Klux Klan, or the Democratic (or Republican) Party. If you only join organizations that aren't criminal in nature and have a democratic form of governance, there's no "leadership" to buck because the decisions come from the bottom, not from the top.

Compare the way your city is run with the way that your local Co-Op is run. The former is hierarchical, the latter is egalitarian. In preserving the two-party system, Dennis is preserving an undemocratic form of government.

The more democratic a government is, the more their citizens have a say in decisions and policies, and the more likely they are to have free health care and other programs that promote the general welfare. The less democratic the government, the more likely that decisions are made by the corporations and government exists solely to carry out the corporate agenda at the expense of the general welfare.

Dennis is a shill and a sell-out. We'll see what happens with Grayson. You can't tell between elections, when the shills posture for the populace, you have to look at election time and see if they throw their support to the warmongers and corporate cronies, betraying everything they've been posturing about between elections.

I just couldn't believe that there is no public option. What's with that? We are talking about welfare here and the public doesn't have a say on that? Unbelievable.

They will fix it. They have the ability to fix it. They better fucking fix it!

No, Chris, they're not. They could have done it right the first time. I don't believe there is any intention of fixing it. The 'fix' is off the table. (Where have I heard that before?)

The anti-Kucinich hysteria reached fevor pitch when the little CIA pussybitch Markos threw a hissy fit.

It reminds me of 2003 when Dennis was the sole voice of peace among the dem prez candidates. Then out of nowhere, the powers that be create a manchurian alternative "peace candidate" in Howard Dean. Kucinich had been coming in first by wide margins on many online progressive polls. Then the media began singing Dean's praises 24/7. He was on the cover of Time and Newsweek the same week. This shows how terrified they were about Dennis, they thought integrity had long been extinct. He wanted to repeal NAFTA, he wanted to exterminate the health insurance blood-suckers, slash Pentagon budget, create a Department of Peace. Find a powerful lobby, he was against it. When a post debate ABC poll said a majority thought Dennis had kicked the asses of all the soulless sellouts(Obama. Clinton, Edwards etc.) the results were promptly disappeared. It has been like this for a while and I am sure it can get to a man.

Alan Grayson? An empty suit from AIPAC? Harvard lawyer who just was installed in Jan '09 is now the progressive's new hero????

That is f'd up on too many levels.

Hopefully Dennis will follow Cynthia and I to the Green Party where we can blow up 9/11 truth and start hanging the bastards.

Unless someone has a crystal ball and can see how the future unfolds and what is most likely to bring change and what kind of change and what not, I don't see how the hell anyone can tell whether this is a cave, or trying to do the best he can in an untenable situation, or what it is.

The way I see it there is more going on here than attempts at health care reform. There is a Republican Party trying to pull the universe down with them in their dysfunctional, sociopathic slide into oblivion. Maybe this pathetic piece of shit legislation as the best our spineless Democrats can do should be opposed no matter what. That's what I've been inclined to think up 'til now. But maybe as stinky as it is it's also something of a deterrent to the impossibly fucked up non-program for anything except straight to hell the Republicans promote. I don't fucking know.

But the way commenters here are turning on Kucinich without knowing shit about what went into his decision and after how much of the time he's been a lone voice makes me sick.

Me, I'll be taking him at his word. I have no reason not to. I'll keep my eyes open but for me he's got a lot of goodwill in the bank.

This is exactly why I've stayed away from group politics. The same sort of mean-spirited intolerance permeates both sides.

That's a big part of Brad's appeal for me. He's not mean-spirited.

Thinking of looking into Tikkun.

Public option law in House ends up same as....Note: Dem.Now transcript for the above video will be on the site for readers who don't do sound/video. www.democracynow.org Today's show, with Kucinich joined by Ralph Nader in one segment, had Nader making the most sense he's made in awhile: a movement for single payer. I almost feel sorry for Kucinich, who I supported for Pres. in 2008 and 2004. (I think Nader's "only the rich can save us" is best as satire.)

I sent Dennis an email telling him he did the right thing. Also, my take on this bill which is:

If you are completely naked and someone offers you a pair of socks, do you refuse because you'd still be naked? If you do and someone offers you a pair of shoes, do you then have to refuse because they're no good without socks?

Michael Moore on Wolf Blindside while railing against Democrats and urging them to start fighting for what we put them onto office to fight for is with great reluctance supporting this bill. Is he another cave in? He couldn't be clearer about why you've got to take your dramamine and support a vote for this horrible bill.

A member of OWL, the Older Women's League, that originated the term Medicare for All, and has been advocating for it since 1980, I more than understand the missing parts of this bill.

Although it is not the "Medicare for All" bill we would write ourselves, it is a solid bill as a basis for the future, and contains strong provisions for women, giving a start on:
Do away with gender rating (charging women more than men)
Prohibit preexisting condition clauses
Prohibit dropping people when they become ill
Begin to close the prescription medicine doughnut hole
Increase Long Term Care choice and quality
Cover maternity care, including CNM midwifery services
Aid for covering employees of small businesses

This bill is analog to Medicare Part D, that helps the poorest and the sickest, as well as the pharmaceutical companies, and is a start to breaking the lockjaw grip of corporations on health care in the U. S.

Do you remember the Civil Rights Act of 1957? You might say, no, it was 1964. The 1957 voting rights act, heavily filibustered by Strom Thurmond, was a big step toward 1964.

So, our best hope is this bill will be a big step in the U. S. catching up with other nations in controlling corporate power. Let another 30M people in the door, take regular doses of additional corporate regulations, and things will necessarily change. That is why I support this bill, and any other crumb of power we can grab for people.

Personally, I'm torn. I love Dennis Kucinich and I love Michael Moore. I understand there are some good things in the bill. I understand the concern about giving intransigent Republicans any more encouragement to absolutely fuck up everything they can. But when I read again about the forced giveaways to the already incredibly powerful insurance companies, and when I think about the Supreme Court ruling making them even more powerful, I sorta secretly hope this bill will fail.

There is going to continue to be terrible, terrible suffering whether it passes or not. So it's a choice between terrible sufferings. I think I would choose the terrible suffering that doesn't give the tyrants added power. That makes the need for change still clear.

I hate that my choice is between nightmares.

It's time to storm the castle gates.

DLas, my thoughts also about the timing, after a historic massive "gift to/extortion by" the corporations, to turn around and hand them by law more oceans of our hard earned dollars seems unwise.

Janet wants to trust in
"regular doses of corporate regulations" so we can continue "grabbing crumbs" and [begin?]"...catching up with other countries in controlling corps."

They were already very good at crapping on regulations. We just gave them much more(unlimited)power. And huge windfall profits to continue denying us service. Or I should say seem to be about to do so.26A

Janet A.
The only problem with that is even though the bill has some good points what is doesn't have is anyway to control the insurance companies from just upping premiums to the point to where virtually nobody can afford them.
Sure they might be mandated to not drop you for pre existing condition's etc but so what? All they need to do is raise your premium to $2000 a month instead of $1000.

Without a solid public option buy in all of those nice sounding things in the bill are utterly worthless because insurance companies can still raise premiums to the point to where they can force you out anyway.

The ONLY real viable health care reform is called Medicare for All, period.
Anything less is nothing but a give away to insurance companies.

Kucinich knows this and fought hard for it, I will not condemn the last man standing because he didn't take a bullet for a lost cause.

If every democrat were like Kucinich then we would have Medicare For all right now and would be out of both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Shame on every one of you for condemning one of the only decent congressmen we have.

If you are American and want to save money on medical bills, take a trip to India. They have top medical facilities and excellent (many American educated). Even with travel and accommodation, you'll save thousands of dollars.

Find out more here:
http://www.treatmentinindia.com/

(Kind of meant tongue-in-cheek...I think)

Nunyabiz wrote, "If every democrat were like Kucinich then we would have Medicare For all right now and would be out of both Iraq and Afghanistan."

Ah, but Dennis is, and I quote him, "the only real Democrat." That's like being the only person in the Mafia who opposes organized crime or the only person in the KKK who isn't racist.

No, CamusRebel, Dennis isn't going to follow you and Cynthia to the Green Party. We don't have proportional representation in our undemocratic system of government, so as a Green he couldn't get elected or have any seniority. Besides, the Greens are a political party also, so they are also seeking power within the system instead of opposing the system.

We do not have a democratic form of government. The Declaration of Independence says that when you don't have a democratic form of government, rather than working within the tyranny, it is our right and our duty to oppose tyranny and establish a democratic form of government.

A democratic form of government, according to the dictionary, is one where supreme power is vested in the hands of the people. Not in the hands of representatives who cannot be held accountable during their terms of office (the only time they can do any harm), not in the hands of a Supreme Monarch, Supreme Tyrant, or Supreme Court (who the hell elected them?), and not in the hands of corporations and monied interests. We do not have a democratic form of government because our Constitution gave us neither a democracy nor a republic but an oligarchy where the will of the people is not the final say and doesn't even have to be taken into account.

The right to petition monarchs, dictators, tyrants, or "representatives" is not the same thing as having supreme power. The United States does not meet the dictionary definition of a democratic form of government and that's why we are the only developed country without a national health care plan and will never get one under this Constitutional oligarchy.

But after the green ticket of Kucinich/McKinney sweeps into power in 2012 and 9/11 is thoroughly and exhaustively investigated, then we will have an Article V Convention and thenyou will see some radical, swift paradigm shifting.

No more Republican or Democrat party. They will be outlawed, their leaders in prison. Capitalism itself will be dismantled. The people will take back OUR airwaves. Then just sit back and let evolution happen. Goodness is actually much more powerful than evil, just more of a marathoner.

CamusRebel, you put words to my dream.

However, I'm going back to bed, because my dreams are the only place that what you wrote above is going to happen. Peacefully.

I think it's a good thing to pass this bill for several reasons. Of course it's not exactly what we want, but if it's passed, there's more of a chance of it leading to something better vs. not passing it. Not passing it, everything remains the same.

First I was against it because it wasn't good enough, now I'm in the Grayson camp that anything passed that will save more lives is a "good thing".

And passing this doesn't mean we stop going for single payer or the public option.

That's just the way I now feel about it. Being for passing this bill does not mean you are against something better.

And I think that's why Kucinich switched his vote, and Kucinich is one of the few people in the federal government that I trust. And I think we should stop totally trashing good people when they do something we don't like. Then we will eventually not like anybody.

amen. But they better fucking fix it.

I agree with David Lasagna, Big Dan and others, especially Nunyabiz.

It ain't Dennis' fault that the government is broken.

He's the only member of Congress out there who has my respect.

From #19:

...I will not condemn the last man standing because he didn't take a bullet for a lost cause.

If every democrat were like Kucinich then we would have Medicare For all right now and would be out of both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Shame on every one of you for condemning one of the only decent congressmen we have.

What Nunyabiz said.

What Lora said.

Obama is a bully, and clearly he bullied Kucinich. That being said, the Obamacare bill, as modified by its House "fix", will bring about a marginal improvement in the American health care system. And that is why I anticipate that Harry Reid's Senate will find an excuse to reject the "fix" and reinstate the horrible, totally corporatist Senate version.