Frist!

This memo has GOT to come out! I hope the Brits get this thing published SOMEWHERE!!

Someone fax a copy to Brad, he will reveal it.

{ed note: Obnoxious, incorrect, misleading comment deleted. Comments by this author to be removed for frequent and flagrant inability to follow and respect the few rules of commenting that we have here.}

That Bush was apparently seriously considering bombing Al Jazeera is staggering. An attack on the free press. An attack on a sovereign country. An attack on an ally. An attack on innocent civilians. Count the ways in which just the thought is heinous and indicative of a mind besotted with power and in love with violence.

But what makes it even more horrifying is the thought that the whole point was to try to stifle coverage of Falluja.

There's way too much smoke here for there not to be fire; duhbaya and his handlers have lied about everything else to us, and I mean everything, to the point where we can always safely assume that they're lying. Keeping secrets to keep the nation secure is, I suppose, a necessary, occasional evil, but keeping secrets to cover the ass's ass is another matter entirely. Too bad we no longer have a conscientious mainstream media. Good thing we have people like Brad and his glorious crew to step into the breach. Keep on keeping on, folks. We love you and we'll do whatever we can to help.

Who was it who first said, "It's not lies we're afraid of, it's the truth."????

I think it was either Josef Stalin or O.J. Simpson's lawyers.

Oddie #3

You say "you're supporting the enablers of murderers" ...

What, because we want the facts out? Because we want to know if this president advocated another act of war on a country simply because he did not like their press? What was it, a threat to "homeland security"?

The truth is neutral. It harms only the untruthful. If no wrong was done publishing the truth of the matter will hurt nobody.

So, if the truth hurts that is just too damn bad, and your lame illogical ramblings show you are truth challenged ... like bu$hit is holy grail or something.

Nope, no war crimes here. Nothin to see, just move along.

why don't they just copy this thing and mail it our all over the world. Official secrets my ass!

How is it that government is allowed to contemplate mass murder yet not have to be called to answer for its planning or consideration.

Now the admin is even threatening the UN in our name (link here).

Lets see, bomb peaceful nations and threaten the UN ... uh ... smells like neoCon "genious".

.
.
.
Tomz (#9):

That's called "freedom" --- Bush style.
.
.
.

Referencing MP Boris Johnson's "I'll go to jail to print the truth..." I'd like to ask why members of the British Govt (Galloway) seem to have found a measure of fortitude that our Senators and Representatives have not ? (sans Boxer or Bernie Sanders, though even they seem to censor themselves to a degree when it comes to out and out criticism of the crimes committed by BushCo)

Obviously they don't fear Bush. Why do ours? I mean, this charade could all be over if the Democrats showed some honesty and unity.

Great find Brad! The more they try to hush this story the guiltier it makes the Bush Cabal look.

Keep up the great work!

Jamie
http://intoxination.blogspot.com

There's no war crime, because nothing happened. But the point I was trying to make is that Blair knew bombing Al Jazeera headquarters in Qatar, a non-combatant in the "war" in Iraq, could easily have been interpreted as a war crime...if it had been done. Bush wouldn't have shown up to defend himself, of course, but a trial in absentia would have attracted world attention and left the United States isolated from peace-loving allies.

The concept that there's too much smoke here for there not to be a fire is kind of self-defeating, in a potentially circular, eternal, and yet elementary if given any critical, logical thought at all.

I think that:
> At first glance, it sounds to rate somewhere between "kind of absurd" and "There's an orange, republican dragonman living in my freezer who gives me advice on stocks, bonds, and strategic popsicle stick diarama construction techniques for elderly Martians and quadripelegics", on the "It is officially a specifically-painful chore for me to refrain from laughing like a stoned adolescent hyena at Comedy Nite" Scale.

> That such objects are discussed seriously as military targets by elements of governance is not exactly common realization in the minds of [at least] Americans (can't speak for the limeys ). That means that opening this particular can of worms and not others (many--BIG--cans all over the place...) is all but impossible. The American people would have to be told that some of those movies where subtle plot points portray various of Uncle Sam's elected helpers acting or speaking frankly, in Machiavellian terms in regards to the American public, or other countries' citizenry, may or may not have been based on actual events...which really doesn't matter anyway, seeing as how there ARE actual events of the roughly-outlined type, movie depiction or not...and that [I would assume], is the horrifying part to Joe Schmo Citizen, as it should be...

> ...so that this is the only thing leaked is not lending too much credibility to it, at least in my eyes. Additionally, who the hell would, of sound, logical, critically-attuned mindset, want to leak this silly, after-school-quality fare (wherein a monstrous charicature of the bumbling, yet evil and VERY prone to flailing, red-faced fits of anger villain comically has to be restrained by his (hapless or overly-competent...?) cohort as he makes an uproarious attempt at charging across the room and pushing the "Destroy Earth" button during a meeting of criminal masterminds...) given all the other, more viable, or at least SHOCKING(!!) exposiae`(made that word up myself ) just waiting to be written in the halls of that or any other statehouse that happens to be run by (*gasp!*) politicians...

> This is, given the high volume of [very suddenly-appearing] smoke and the teetering that it is doing on the line between childishly-hilarious and disgustingly torture-worthy, I'd say it sounds to me like cover smoke and mirrors for something else on the part of certain elements of the (National) Republican (Socialist) Party. Very reprehensible, and therefore comes complete with "Exorbitant Amounts of National News Airtime Guarantee", yet simultaneously is about as harmful as a sleeping turtle wrapped in a fluffy blanket with a cute puppy (surrounded by barbed wire, motion sensors, spotlights, and an entire platoon of Army Rangers, to guard them) to the career of a no-nonsense savior of a president (who currently has FAR loftier things to worry about--like how to gloriously save trees and rocks from the evil grip of Allah/Satan, thereby almost completely securing the entire world--literally--and being hailed as the guy who makes Jesus and Ghandi look like satanic gay lovers) at whom such laughable accusations might be seriously aimed. ("What--are you serious? I've got a country to lovingly run and a war to graciously win. I mean, chrissakes--Americans are dying, I'm trying to fix it and you seriously ask me if I wanted to bomb Cartoon Network?"--Sounds like pretty good ammo in the hands of this administration, given the opportunity to appear as the 'serious' ones for once, while vocal opponants are publicly embarassed...)

Down to it as of now, I'll make no assumptions, but--well, I'll put it this way: if you want to surprise ME, you're going to have to show me convincing proof that Bush DIDN'T ever plan to, or otherwise dream about (or even fully carry out...?) bombing an (actually, "THE") Arab Media Outlet.

Liberals of America support a network that prides itself on showing images of beheaded Americans.

Not surprising.

Bombing Al Jazeera: He was planning to commit a war crime, and an unauthorized act of war against a US ally.

Blair, rightly so, tried to talk Bush out of an attack upon our ally.

British government notes of their conversation went on for five pages documenting this discussion.

http://insomnia.livejournal.com/

............. this threatened air strike against al-Jazeera's headquarters, located in the middle of the business district of Qatar's capital, came after two previous US air strikes against al-Jazeera offices.

#16
Allow to exist is not the same as supporting!
Physically attacking media outlets is irresponsible in that it gives credence to their POV as having enough truth to be dangerous, whether or not it is true.

Ironically, this administration wanting to attack ANYTHING because it does not fully portray the truth is laughable at best.

Great video. Why can't we have news like this. I look forward to seeing the memo on the web.

Keep in mind folks, at this point, the "terror network" is a small band of rag-tag nit-wits that are attacking their own people and losing support fast.

If Bush can find a way to get "more arabs" in on the fight -against- us, he can make a "bigger case" for invading "more countries".. When you comit acts of autrocieties against a people, they "revolt".. Bush needs that to happen to escalate his illegal, immoral, unjustified invasion of the Arab world.

See, here in the U.S. it would be spun as an accident (like the other 2 bombings of Al Jazeera buildings).. Then when the "average" Arab people got pissed because they knew all too well that MORE innocent civilians were "bombed by bush" (remember the "insurgent meeting" that turned out to be a wedding?), they might take to the streets ..

Make no mistakes people... -if- (and it's a big IF, I know) Bush is trying to bring about the second coming of Christ, he has to make sure "those infedel Arabs" are out of the way. You can't have Americans (and good god fearing ones, at that) living in a country that is volitile with terrorism, right? So, get them all riled up so they riot in the streets, then carpet bomb 1/2 the damn reagion into dust.. spend American Tax Dollars to build up some nice palaces/embasies, then send in all your rich "saved" friends and wait for Christ to come pick you up.. While that is a bit "out there", if the suggestions of "some" are right, this is all part of a bigger move into the Middle East.. and blowing up civilians that could spoil your moves would make sense (in a psycho "I'm gonna rule the world!" kinda way).

This is from the homepage of Al Jazeera. I don't see any be-heading headlines. Even if their reporting leans anti-american, is distasteful, or is shoddy, that doesn't give the US the right to bomb them, especially in a peacful, allied country. We do need the Muslim world to fight terrorism. We do not need to alienate Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, etc. by killing journalists.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

Updated on: Saturday 26 November 2005, 0:44 Makka Time, 21:44 GMT

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Sorry to rain on your parade, but beware of the perfidious Albion!

It is a fact that the neocons and truth are like oil and water, they repel each other. Leo Strauss the granddaddy of neocons pontificated; 'society needs to be told consolable lies' and boy those bastards following him haven't half been giving it lies.

It is also a fact that Kate Adie (BBC before she was demoted) the grand dame of the war journalists is on record, telling of the pentagon memos that made it clear; embed or die!

Yet another horrible fact concerns the independent journalists' life span in the latest battle theatres involving the pentagon, which empirically is proven not to be all that long, and the numbers of the dead journalists of various news organisations, that have died in 'accidental' circumstances is the sad testimony for all to witness.

Hence, it should come as no surprise to find out about the plots for wholesale bombing of any news organisations that do not engage in foxaganda. However, what is amiss, is the records of a minuted conversation winding up on the lap of an ex member of parliament, and a special constable (voluntary policeman) who then returns the documents back to where they were purloined from, and then a pro-labour (GOP) newspaper goes on record about the contents of this secret document, with the promises of stay tuned more is coming. Those staying tuned then find the attorney general promising hell fire and brimstone to those who would dare to publish the rest of the document.

Now it does not take a genius to figure out Tonnykins Blair is in deep shit, and almost to a man of his constituency hate him, which is reflected in the numbers of the backbenchers squaring up to him, for any excuse.

Now he needs to put this lapdog and poodle perception to bed, and lo and be hold he is found to be in disagreement with his boss God's Own Sheriff Dubya. Trouble is people are not buying it, and more troubling is, this cretin ordering his attorney general to pounce on the so called free press. That in curious way is the ultimate display of the police state and the banana republic ranking of that once great united kingdom. Now all hail the chimp and his prayer posse who are trying to get away from their monkey god.

I think a big part of the problem with all of this is, the American people don't want truth. At least, that's the impression we get from all the "media" and "network" outlets. Hell, something bad happens on Thanksgiving day, and it's all covered up "real time" so people can continue "enjoying the show", and, more importantly, "advertisers don't lose their investment, even if they don't do a good job on their end".. That is, the damn float broke but they still get "good spin" for their dollar.

The same thing is going on all over the country (and parts of the world). Our leaders want to protect us from "reality" by lying and deceiving. It's shameful and wrong, but makes for controlling (and dumbing down) the masses much easier. No pictures of the caskets coming in from the war, not counting deaths of soldiers who die "outside of the country borders", even if they die in route to the hospital, or die in the hospital.. This is a huge PR campaign, and -most- Americans just don't get it.

I think the most appropriate words out of the news man's mouth were "washington is wagging the dog".. They did it for the first war (fabricated photos and witnesses to the incubators in Kuwait, etc), they did it to get us into this war ("mushroom cloud" and mental images of Sept. 11, 2001, even though there was NO connection).. not letting us see all the dead coming home, not letting us see all the innocent dead civilians in Iraq, etc.. This is becoming a mess on a grand scale. Americans are being lulled to sleep and shoved into pure "consumer mode" and not being shown the damage and pain and suffering our gluttony causes. 100s of millions of people around the world are starving to death and dying of disease (and some in THIS COUNTRY), but instead of "trying to fix it all", the richest of the rich just keep sucking up as much as they can..

Make no mistake.. Bush wanting to destroy Al Jazeera so it couldn't spread the truth is right on par with NBC not showing the truth about the parade.. it's all about money and power and greed in the end. Keeping Americans informed is the last thing our "leaders" want to do, and in that same vein, they wanted to stop the Arab people from being informed about Fallujah (preemptively at that.. guess they KNEW there would be a lot of civilian deaths and didn't care).

Official Secret (not an act): Bush is a lying murderer. It's amusing that the BRITISH government we broke away from 225 years ago is hiding secrets from their people with threats of imprisonment to protect them from the truth of the Bushit administration. That my friends is full circle.

Holiday shopping is up. It may be accurate to say, as was suggested above, that the people of America are pulling the consumerist blankets up over their heads for one more holiday season.

And in a horrible kind of way, I can see the logic of that.

OK, Epppie, I'm even more jaded than that. I think they are lying to us about holiday shopping being up. They want us to believe that all is well and normal, that there is no reason not to go about our usual routine. They want us to spend and spend and spend because that is how the extremely rich individuals and the corporations, including the media who are telling us as little as possible about reality and urging us to shop for their sponsors products remain rich. At the same time, I've never known so many people in my personal sphere of acquaintances who are out of work, out of projects, or otherwise underemployed.

I'm looking for a thicker blanket than shopping to pull up over my head.

Surfed on in from C&L and wanted to check out what Brad's been saying about this. This'll make my Assclowns of the Week post on Sunday all the better, since I'll be opening with it.

Well, it's nice that Dub didn't blow up CBS over the story on his non-service in the Air Force . . . which story was true enough, according to the General's secretary . . .

It's interesting that Boris Johnson mentioned Reagan's bombing Russia remarks. That escaped me the first time and I began my Assclowns of the Week segment with a parallel between this and Reagsn's joke. Then I saw it. Damn.

I guess the association was too irresistable to not make.

You have to wonder if Monty Python is directing the Bush administration's war plans because these last two months of surreal comedy defy logic. Bomb al-Jazeera because it was reporting what U.S. troops were doing in Falleuja? Better watch out, Brad, there might be a missile directed at the chimney of your house.

Re:the leaker and his motivation.

Cui Bono?

This story communicates to Labor that Bush is insane but Blair can manipulate him (marginally) towards an erzsatz normalcy because of Bush's childlike magical thinking wherein he and Tony are imaginary friends....

Hence, for the sake of the world, fall in line behind Tony; apres-lui, le deluge....

#23 Sav..excellent post...so what is going to be done to us that don't live in bush's reality and aren't dumbed down. Glad I am not in the ''fear' mode, haven't been there since 911 and won't even go there.

When I compare the fascism happening in the U.S. today and compare it to Germany, I wonder how it will happen. They have to get the guns. I don't think the average gun toting American is going to line up and hand them over....though a few have (the buy back program goes on in my part of the world now and then, me thinks it was a money thing). I think that will probably be the straw that breaks the camels back. When the NRA realizes they were used, the backlash will start for real, then the line in the sand will be drawn. I can see it now, all the bush crowd lining up to turn in their hunting rifles, but then, who knows, maybe I am wrong. Maybe they will do it with a smile on their face to support their god king pres.

I don't remember where I saw it, but some Republican woman was warning that it would be really terrible if the democrats had guns. Oh my.
Democrats don't own guns....so why do they fear the dems. Do not the republicans know that they are the ones being targeted? They are the last hurdle to the 'final solution'.

Then of course my mind wanders to what would happen if China came in to liberate us from our Dictator. Of course we would throw the Chinese army flowers and kiss their feet for freeing us. And the republicans who support bushco better be the first in line else they will have the word 'terrorist or insurgent' tatooed on their head. I know they would not fight for their Country. They can't figure out why those in Iraq are fighting the U.S. occupation...so would be really hard for them to make any connection. All that China would probably want is Texas and Alaska and of course the zillions we owe them. China needs lots of Oil to keep Walmart up and running and probably would like to collect all the money the U.S. owes them.

So, bush's base keep shopping and enriching the global elite, keep those stock portfolios healthy and Wall Street happy, until the next staged stock market collapse that causes you to loose your home and live in your car. The zillionaires don't care about you. The American Dream is dead. It died along time ago, when our dignity and morality was sold by Congress to the highest bidder. M4 (just realizing maybe bushco will just bomb us all with Willie Pete...melt us to the bone..would certainly take care of the gun problem)

What will it take to save our tax dollars and throw these corrupt , treasonous War Criminals in Jail ?!

Everyday it's scandal after scandal ( but no bj ! God forbid ?! ) Yet these thugs are still in our WH .

There is a serious dumbing down in America . I do not know how else to explain BUSHco and their crimes against Americans and the world -

Thank you for your work here. I intend to support you in every way.
Some of us have known about this and many many more stories just as incriminating or worse for some time now.
We need creative minds to come up with peaceful ways of grabbing the medias attention. The more fun we make it the more people will want to join.
See you soon, I will be sending many friends this way.

Can you say: "smoking cannon"?

Send it to NBC, CBS or ABC and Brad can get a copy out of their garbage and print it.

Merifour.. I'm one of those "gun toting Americans", and they can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

There's a -reason- the Founding Fathers included "bear arms" in the Constitution, and this is starting to look exactly like what they feared, and why it was put in. For "militas" to form and protect us from enemies "domestic or foreign".. Soon the domestic enemy will be on us, and god help them that can't or won't protect themselves.

I just worry because these are American made guns.. sure hope they don't jam up in a clutch! :hehe:

Merifour - Remember "Bowling for Columbine? Something tells me that those Michigan militia folks are not going to be too willing to hand their weapons over to the feds, regardless of who is at the helm. I don't know if membership in the NRA automatically means that you are a Republican, or necessarily that you agree with all of the official positions taken by the NRA. I think tha the "Charlton Heston is my president" bumperstickers are as much telling Bush he can choke on it as they did Clinton. Also, gun ownership does not equate to NRA membership either.

It's been a long time - five years or more - since I've owned a gun. I determined that having kids and guns in the same house was inherently unsafe regardless of what precautions were taken. I remember when I was a teenager and the ease that I could get into my father's guns, which were supposedly secure. I was never an NRA member, nor did I agree with their lobbying positions and tactics, particularly concerning "assault" weapons. But I wouldn't have trusted a Clinton government to come and tike my rifles any more than I would a Bush government. Savantster's point about the 2nd amendment and militias is all too poignant, and something that I have been giving much thought too of late.

With all the reporters killed in Iraq and now this bit, maybe it isn't just the corporate owners of the media preventing reporters from reporting what is going on in the world or in our own country.

These are strange days indeed.

also...
Sgrena and Calipari thought they’d escaped to safety, when an American patrol opened fire on their car. Sgrena was wounded; Calipari, an Italian national hero, was killed.

This latest scandal of Bush's spoken threat to Al Jazeera works hand in hand with the scandal of Miller at the NYT who acted basically as a White House implant into America's leading daily paper.

Personally, I have no doubt that Bush would bomb a press HQ. Look at how many journalists have been killed so far in Iraq. It is a record. As an American, I fear that the USA is heading in the same direction as Argentina did in the 1970's . Label any opposition as a terrorist, arrest them without trial, and then have them conveniently dissappear. Sad but true

And the patrol that fired at Sgrena's car and killed Calipari had been advised the car was coming. It was not speeding and posed no threat to anyone. It did not break through any barrier and did not accelerate.

This story is another ugly story that has been buried by the U.S. media. But people overseas don't allow their own media to be intimidated by Bush & Co., and neither O'Reilly nor Limbaugh is fluent in Italian, so the story won't die. It's a first cousin of the "Should we bomb al-Jazeera?" deal; get rid of reporters who write the truth whenever the truth conflicts with your agenda.

"OK, Epppie, I'm even more jaded than that. I think they are lying to us about holiday shopping being up. They want us to believe that all is well and normal, ..."
ChemBob

don't know about lying on shopping, but your post brings up something everyone is talking about.

My job affords me plenty of casual conversation with middleclass, fairly conservative folks, and one of the themes coming up again and again is these folks are constantly questioning all the sunny, economy is growing talk emanating from MSM . Almost all of them to a person offer up someone they know without a job, or having to take a 2nd job and they are all scratching their heads.

why doesn't this story get more play?

#39..Guess I am misunderstanding the NRA. I have seen literature from them saying to support bushco...so guessed the members were all about being republican. I have seen the bumper sticker you mentioned and didn't know what it meant. I saw the movie and how irate Heston became when questioned by Moore. I thought the sticker meant to support the Heston/republicans....didn't see the other meaning. Gun ownership is a hot button, like abortion, gay issues, moral values, etc. A grey issue, not black and white. bush sees everything in black and white. He also considers himself our new dictator, so logic dictates to me..that a citizen having a gun, is bad, in his mind. (BTW, did you see the article about CEO's now going on 'shooting' trips, instead of golfing. They fly in helicopters and get to shoot guns for the first time, more of a thrill than hitting a little white ball around..what's up with that)

I started to post about the al-jazeera bombing in my original post, anger that bushco is about silencing dissent. Went off on a tangent instead and got off topic. I was looking into the future, which I often do. I really must work hard to stay in the present when everything going on is so crazy. bush really is proving to the world that he will not tolerate Truth, he will silence anyone that dares to speak it. Our military is his tool in Iraq. The MSM his tool in the USA.

I remember during the '41' s war, Peter Arnett (CNN) stayed in Iraq to report. His character was constantly under attack and finally after he attempted to do an expose' a few years later he was fired. He saw a lot during those days, and rather guess he is lucky to be alive today, if he is.
Today bushco just kills the reporters who don't follow the rules. M4

About the Sgrena/Calipari incident -

Sgrena was investigating the White Phosphorus issue from Fallujah (if you saw the 27 minute Italian doucmentary) and apparently Calipari had firsthand information/evidence that civilians were indeed targets, and was going to exposed that. I'll have to watch it again for the full story, perhaps someone can post the link. I know www.informationclearinghouse.com had it available for download. Obviously Sgrena and Calipari made themselves targets, but after watching the documentary I felt that it was not Sgrena who was targeted so much as Calipari. I think he was the one with the goods.

About the NRA - I'm certainly not defending them as an organization. I think "Bowling" was right on (I actually have a signed copy and have met Moore 3 times, and contributed a bit to "Dude Where's My Country?") in terms of our national obsession with firearms. The problem with the US and firearms, as with many other things, is that we don't, as a public, have a particularly mature mentality about them - this combined with our general teenage machismo (evidenced by BushCo) is a fatal combination.

I support the second amendment in terms of citizen awareness of the federal government, and keeping themselves able to resist tyrany - violently if necessary. I think that was the original intent of the second amendment. Was it Jefferson who said "the tree of liberty must be nourished from time to time with the blood of martyrs"? The government has all sorts of quarantine contingencies for citizen uprisings, disease outbreaks - if we aren't prepared to act as citizen militias, we are well and truly screwed.

The problem with the NRA is that they don't act responsibly about gun use - oh, they claim to. But waiting periods for background checks are sound policy. Having certain weapons be banned is sound policy (although from a citizen militia soundpoint, if we ever had to contend with our military roaming our own streets - maybe not an unlikely scenario given apocalypse George - we'd be pretty underarmed in terms of firepower.)

You are right that the GOP leadership has turned guns into a wedge issue. It shouldn't be - protection of the second amendment should cross party lines. Democrats are not trying to "take away guns" but the Repukes make that false argument.

#12 There seems to be some misconception that the dems are gonna save us if only they have the courage to stand up. Well frickin wake up, smell the coffee, and get it through your head!!! With notable few exceptions the DEMOCRATIC CORPORATE SELLOUT ROBOTS ARE IN WITH THE REPUBLICANS>I COMMAND U TO GET RID OF ALL THESE WILLING ACCOMPLICES sucking on the tits of these conglomorant corporations. VOTE THEM ALL OUT>DO YOU KNOW WHY DIEBOLD CAME BACK???BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT KNOW ALL THE WAYS TO GET AWAY WITH SHIT AND GET AROUND the enstilled belief system that this show is run pro-choice. Put an amendment up for vote to cap or eliminate corporate contributions to people running for public office and force individuals to get elected on their own merit. How much does it cost to get on a soap box and talk. What if you plug in a microphone? You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out people. Vote for someone who has built a political record fighting for the cause of the working class or take a chance on someone who appears to have enough common sense to make an informed decision for the common good of America and the world. I believe people in other countries haven't given up on us yet. It's time to remove the BUSHIT BLINDERS people and fcken smarten up.

#47 SR..I remember the incident about Sgrena, caused some fuss here, then died. I am glad it is back in the press, at least on the net. I watched the Fallujah video....this sort of thing doesn't surprise me anymore. The U.S. has become everything we once prided ourselves on Not being..(some but not all of us). Maureen, another thread here at Bradblog, has been doing her homework and sharing it with us. Required reading for any that still believe we are an untainted Nation.

Back to the NRA, again a grey issue, can a hunting rifle be classified the same way as one issued by the military...are they comparable? I don't know anything about guns and think everyone needs to think long and hard on this one. So we will have militia's with hunting rifles fighting the military with tanks.....doesn't sound good to me. I cringe when I see the poor people of other countries defending themselves with sticks and rocks, against soldiers. We are always told the soldiers are the good guys of course and the poor rock throwing people are trying to upset things...ohmigod. So must still reach the conclusion that guns will be banned here.
The people will have to use rocks and sticks to defend themselves against a Fascist Neocon controlled government based on lies.

Or, perhaps we will just be sprayed with some new disease (as you alluded) to which there is no cure. Many scientists working on germ warfare have died too, in mysterious accidents. They created the germ and the cure, now they are dead along with the cure. hmmmm M4 (who believe the Power Elite have the Cure, just in case)

Gotta jump in with SoulRebel's #47. I have been involved in the gun control movement for years, dropping out of it (and all others - enviro, choice, health care, etc...) to fight the only real fight now, the election fraud fight, which brings me here to Bradblog.

However, I gotta say, if the people have to depend on our pop guns against our military, we're in deep do-do, for sure. I also gotta say that if we feel the only way to stop them is to have military weaponry for ourselves in our homes, then, again, we're screwed. All y'all have seen the tragedies associated with weapons that are meant to kill humans. Nobody hunts with an AK-47. Or if he does, he's a total pussy.

Most of us in the mighty American middle are non-violent folk who believe the pen is mightier than the gun. We will not fight with violence unless we are left with no choice. At that time we'll break out our legally acquired shotguns

What we gun-controllers are for is reasonable gun control some easy laws for "law-abiding gun owners" to go with if they feel the need for deadly force to be available to them. We just wanna keep guns outta the hands of our criminals, our children, and our mentally ill. Most of us see no use for a handgun, as it's only positive, conceal-ability, makes it the favorite weapon of the criminal. I grew up in a hunting household, and, though I don't hunt any more, I appreciate the thrill of hunting have no problem with others who hunt.
The Repubs, as is their way, have tried to convince America that we are trying to take away hunting guns when we are really just trying to bring some sense to our gun crazy country, where tens of thousands die from guns each year, where the average child is inundated with suggestions from his media entertainment and news that problems should be solved with violence. Most of us have a connection to a gun tragedy or two. And we are loaded with the sorrow of it.
If we ever make elections fair again, I'll be back in that anti-NRA parade for sure.

Sav..I thought gun owners were all part of the NRA crowd, you know the 'con club'. Could I have been wrong...well, at least we know the bush supporters will hand theirs in, cuz they believe in the pres and his noble cause and will do anything bushco and his preachers in the pulpit tell them to.

Can't we allow hunters and gun collectors to have their rifles, and still forbid handguns and other lethal weapons popular with street criminals?

The Constitution gives individuals the right to bear ARMS. But it doesn't say ANY KIND OF ARMS. For example, would anyone argue that keeping a loaded cannon full of mortar in the driveway, pointed at the house across the street, should be permitted? Or deadly explosives (WMD if you will)?

If a consensus can be arrived at that certain weapons should be illegal for everyone, then what is the argument about? It's really about an actor who parted the Red Sea and rode in a chariot race in the movies who has decided that any restriction on any weapon would inevitably lead to restrictions against all weapons.

Asinine, of course. We allow cigarettes but forbid marijuana. We allow some fireworks but not nitroglycerine. We allow bug spray but not D.D.T.
Our lives are subject to reasonable regulations, all having been arrived at through negotiation and/or compromise. But for some reason we can't manage to subject guns to the same kinds of rules that apply to cars, medicines, fertilizers, asbestos, gases, poisons, beef and dairy products, and even some fabrics.

I have to say, I agree totally with Soul Rebel at #47.. I think the problem is the NRA, not guns. The old addage "guns don't kill people, people kill people" applies, even though it's misused on occasion.

I agree completely that part of the problem with the NRA is wanting to remove wait periods.. I think that's kind of crazy. If it takes 3 days to verify you aren't a criminal (and to ensure you aren't buying a gun in a fit of anger), what's the problem? You've got 60 to 80 years on this rock, 3 days isn't gonna kill ya. I think making sure responsible people are the only ones getting guns is a good idea; I can't fathom someone saying just an ID should be good enough.

That also brings up the idea of assault rifles.. Personally, I see no reason for "mature and responsible people" NOT to have them (if they want them). Take a look around, you'll see that CRIMINALS have them (illegally). Criminals -will- continue to get them.. it makes no sense to let the "bad people" have that kind of fire power, and not "responsible people".

Which brings me to Shannon Williford at #50..

Assault rifles (to me) aren't -just- about the 2nd amendment and having militias.. that is, we go decades at a time (well, over 200 years?) with no seemingly "real threat" from within.. but, there's always the threat from "without". First off, our standing military is un-Constitutional.. We aren't supposed to have one. In times of crisis, the government is supposed to call up the "militias" and have them fight. In the interest of the government NOT being the ones owning the guns, the citizens are supposed to.

But, since we -do- have a standing military, one would like to think we don't need to have armed citizens, right? But look at where we are right now. We have a lot of our troops tied up in a hot-bed of violence over seas.. what happens if someone decides to come and invade the U.S.? Granted, that's almost unconcievable in this day and age, but it's still a possibility. Yes, we have "military" here in the U.S. and troops that could be recalled, but do you want to be walking around the streets with gunfire overhead and no way to protect yourself? A shotgun isn't going to stop that guy 1/2 up the block as he marches to you.. shotguns only have a range of about 30 ft or so before they are pretty much uselsess (for buckshot, slugs are a different matter). Rifles are -meant- to hit targets from 100s of feet away (some up to 1/2 mile or more). Shotguns are "close range" weapons.

Which brings up "handguns" again.. your assertion is they are only good for "concealing", but what about in your home? When you are walking down a narrow hall? past doors? and someone is in your house? If you only have a "legal" shotgun, you are in trouble in a lot of situtations. Handguns are about "concealing", they are about mobility and short ranged engagement. It's a LOT easier to move a handgun around and aim than it is a shotgun. Then you have situations like my mother's.. she can't lift a shotgun, she's partially disabled.. she could hold up a .32 or at least kind of hold it up.. but never a shotgun, and the kick would knock her on her ass and likely break her shoulder (or just launch the gun out of her hands if it wasn't braced against her body). There are a LOT of "valid" uses for handguns, saying they are only "concealed" is to do what Rethugs do and try to manipulate the argument. And a "concealed" handgun isn't a bad thing either, unless it's a BAD PERSON who's concealing it.

I think one of the biggest problems we have in this country is, we're going -backward- in maturaty.. An example would be Shannon Williford's statement about "the thrill of hunting".. For me, that's the WRONG reason to hunt.. if you get a 'kick' out of 'killing', there's something wrong with you (in my mind). Killing is bad, always. If it's "fun", you have issues.. And, I can see why not wanting people who have "fun" killing to get their hands on guns that could do a "lot more killing" makes sense. But, personally, "shooting" is fun for me, so long as no one and nothing gets hurt. The last time I killed anything "in sport", I was 13 and had a .410 shotgun.. was roaming my grandfather's farm and shooting at birds.. I hit one, from pretty far out (30 yards or so) and when I got up to where it was, I saw it twitching and trying to hop away. It was bleeding and flopping around and trying to chirp, but it had a hole in it's nect (and wing and one leg was missing). I started crying as I picked it up and made sure it was dead.. That poor bird wasn't doing anything but singing in the sun, and some ignorant piece of shit human came along and blew it up, for no -real- reason. If you ask me, any person "killing for fun" is stuck someplace in my mind under the age of 13 with no moral sense or no ability to understand the ramifications of their actions.. and, are exactly the people that don't need guns in their hands.

There was a time when people in this country had respect for life, for each other, for the world around them. Now we have a bunch of greedy ignorant fat lazy pricks running around the world. Bush is their poster child, caring nothing about anyone but himself (and his family, -maybe-). He's content to kill whom ever to have his fun, make his profits, be drunk/high on his power. And that affliction has engulfed 10s of millions of people in this country. We wreak havoc all across the world, 100s of MILLIONS of people suffer so we can live like we do, and the 'bulk' of Americans think "so? I deserve what I have, I'm an American!". Nice.. shit on human beings so you can have a disposable lifestlye, wonderful.

Back to a time when people, in general, were willing to work hard and had a general respect and maturity. Back when working hard meant having something nice, building up a home and legacy.. That would be nice.. but, instead, we have a society based on "gimme now! gimme free! gimme gimme gimme!", and the Repugs are at the front of the line, dumping billions and billions into the "stock market", living on millions in dividends, and the "best way" to get that "free money" is to move jobs out of the country, fuck over the masses living here.. destroying this country to make a buck on "investments", which isn't something everyone can do/have because the SAME people that are benifiting from pulling jobs are sucking all the pennies from the pockets of the people they just put out of work.

Bah.. long and off track.. sorry. But, I think it kind of ties into why I fully believe that Bush would wantonly kill/bomb innocent people. Hell, if the Sept. 11, 2001 'theories' are accurate, they blew up 3,000 of our OWN people to start this shit.. of course they wouldn't mind killing some faceless people from 1/2 way around the world.. and people who don't even worship the right god, at that! (well, according to christians.. )

RLM (#51) How would police officers do their jobs with rifles? They need hand guns based on their moving around a lot, getting in and out of cars, needing to be close to "suspects" and "criminals" and still have overall mobility.. Police need hand guns while other people have guns, don't you think? And, if cops have guns, why can't other people? Cops are "people" too, and we know from recent history that they are corruptable just like anyone else.

And, as pointed out in my (looooong.. sorry) post above, you can't manuver with a rifle like you can with a handgun. Protecting your house (inside) with a rifle isn't very reasonable..

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people. If someone -really- wants to kill someone, not having a gun isn't gonna matter. But, if that person decided they wanted to kill me, my having a gun may well save my life.

It's about our society.. our lack of education, the corruption running the show, the greed and ignorance of the masses perpitrated by Mega Corps. Until you fix "society" you can't win. Picking at all the other things just deflects attention from the real issue..

Republican Congressman Ron Paul recently appeared on nationally syndicated radio and again reiterated his deep concern that foreign troops are mobilizing outside and inside America to be used as assets in a martial law takeover by the Bush administration.

"It's a horrible precedent and it's all part of the NAFTA scheme and globalization and world government,"

I've been for gun control all of my life....and now am being forced to revise those thoughts in being unarmed/helpless against our "compassionate" administration.

http://www.infowars.com/...ticles/ps/ronpaul_ml.htm

Al-Jazeera does not show beheadings on their news station - they have categorically denied it (see this article for example).

That people believe that they do (people who have never watched Al-Jazeera in their lives) is hardly surprising though, given there was a point when over half of poll-ees believed Saddam Hussien was responsible for 9-11.

Al Jazeera is a serious media outlet, and many of its fulltime workers are ex-BBC. Sir David Frost - probably Britain's most respected 'serious' interviewer has recently signed up to work them. I think that says quite a lot about their journalistic credibility.

Al Jazeera will be launching their much awaited Enlish language news station early next year. I look forward to being able to see a different perspective on the middle east.

The 'trouble' certain people have with Al-Jazeera (at least from what I can tell by reading their English language website) is not that they are biased in one way or another, it is that they cover more than just the Official Position. If showing the casualties of (for example) the US occupation of Iraqi leads to resentment against American forces - then that is not the problem of the messenger, it is the problem of those responsible for the casualties in the first place.

The way the media is (theoretically) supposed to work, is that such reporting of all sides in a conflict is commendable, objective journalism. These days, that is called 'giving support to terrorists'.

No wonder al-Jazeera was a target - by Robert Fisk, The Independent

"I remarked how easy a target his Baghdad office would make if the Americans wanted to destroy its coverage - seen across the Arab world - of civilian victims of the Anglo-American bombing of Iraq. "Don’t worry, Robert," Tareq had replied. "We’ve given the Americans the exact location of our bureau so we won’t get hit." Three days later, Tareq was dead."

"When al-Jazeera first broadcast across the Arab world, the Americans hailed its appearance as a symbol of freedom amid the dictatorships of the Middle East. The New York Times’s messianic columnist Tom Friedman praised it as a beacon of freedom - always a dangerous precedent, coming from Friedman - while US officials held out the station’s broadcasts as proof that Arabs wanted free speech."

"But when the same al-Jazeera began broadcasting bin Laden’s words, all the enthusiasm of Friedman and the State Department dried up. By 2003, US deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz - that paragon of democracy who asked why Turkish generals did not have "something to say" when the democratically elected Turkish parliament prohibited US troops from using their territory for the invasion of Iraq - was fraudulently claiming that al-Jazeera was "endangering the lives of American troops". His boss, Donald Rumsfeld, told an even bigger lie: that al-Jazeera was co-operating with Iraqi insurgents. I spent days investigating these claims. All turned out to be false. Tapes of guerrilla attacks on US forces were delivered anonymously to the station’s offices, not filmed by al-Jazeera’s crews. But the die was cast. Iraq’s newly elected government proved its democratic credentials by throwing al-Jazeera out of the country - just as Saddam had threatened to do in early 2003."

For Savantser: Police officers would be exempted from the restrictions. But police departments don't manufacture their own guns, they buy them from a gun wholesaler or retailer.

If a gun wholesaler/retailer made a gun available to anyone other than a law enforcement officer, he could be held criminally negligent. Granted, this would make gun manufacture an unprofitable business, and there's the rub. What it comes down to in the final analysis is not the Constitution, but the survival of gun companies like Colt and Remington.

I personally don't care if gun companies go out of business. Others would disagree with me about that. But a quasi-governmental company could survive by providing guns to state and local police departments, the F.B.I., national guardsmen and narcs. A black market would develop, but other countries have dealt successfully with them in the past.

I think the problem, RLM, becomes "only government officials would have guns", and we KNOW that being a "government official" doesn't make you magically "good"..

Again, I don't think the real issue is about "guns", I think the issue is about oppression in this country (criminals are bred in oppression), coupled with a lack of self control paired with rabbid greed.

I'd also like to point out that we have people in the military who are only there to avoid jail time. Those would be -more- people with guns (and the automatic flavor) who shouldn't have them, but by your policy, would..

we could go around and around all day about "how to tweak the rules" to minimize who has guns in their hands, but I don't think it's pertinent when we're talking about the President of the United States wanting to "misuse his guns".. What, are we just going to not have -any- weapons in this country then? so our illustrious leaders can't wage war? and by the same mechanism designed for protection, kill innocent people for their own means?

It's not the "war machine" that's bad, it's how it's being used. Same principle applies to guns, in my mind.

So, medium-right, since they show beheadings in Al-Jazeera (if they're even real), and we don't like it, we should bomb it.

You are a fucking idiot!

Hey everyone! Let's bomb things we don't like!

Even if it's in America! Like abortion clinics!

(note to rightwingers: I'm being sarcastic)

...Punter said on 11/25/2005 @ 2:40pm PT...

>Sorry to rain on your parade, but beware of the perfidious Albion!

snip

>It is also a fact that Kate Adie (BBC before she was demoted) the grand dame of the war journalists is on record, telling of the pentagon memos that made it clear; embed or die!

Punter
I would very much like references/sources/
document numbers for these memos; another bit of evidence.

I think this post has my link for direct response

The Adie remark came on Tom Guirk's "Sunday Show" on RTE Radio 1 (Ireland).

Transcript (taken from Free Republic of all places!)

Tom McGurk: " Now, Kate Adie, you join us from the BBC in London. Thank you very much for going to all this trouble on a Sunday morning to come and join us. I suppose you are watching with a mixture of emotions this war beginning to happen, because you are not going to be covering it."

Kate Adie: " Oh I will be. And what actually appalls me is the difference between twelve years ago and now. I've seen a complete erosion of any kind of acknowledgment that reporters should be able to report as they witness."

"The Americans... and I've been talking to the Pentagon ...take the attitude which is entirely hostile to the free spread of information."

"I was told by a senior officer in the Pentagon, that if uplinks --that is the television signals out of... Bhagdad, for example-- were detected by any planes ...electronic media... mediums, of the military above Bhagdad... they'd be fired down on. Even if they were journalists ..' Who cares! ' said.. [inaudible] .."

Tom McGurk: "...Kate ...sorry Kate ..just to underline that. Sorry to interrupt you. Just to explain for our listeners. Uplinks is where you have your own satellite telephone method of distributing information."

Kate Adie: " The telephones and the television signals."

Tom McGurk: " And they would be fired on? "

Kate Adie: " Yes. They would be 'targeted down,' said the officer."

Tom McGurk: " Extraordinary ! "

Kate Adie: " Shameless! "

" He said.. ' Well... they know this ...they've been warned.' "

" This is threatening freedom of information, before you even get to a war."

"The second thing is there was a massive news blackout imposed."

"In the last Gulf war, where I was one of the pool correspondents with the British Army. We effectively had very, very light touch when it came to any kind of censorship."

" We were told that anything which was going to endanger troops lives which we understood we shouldn't broadcast. But other than that, we were relatively free."

" Unlike our American colleagues, who immediately left their pool, after about 48 hours, having just had enough of it."

" And this time the Americans are: a) Asking journalists who go with them, whether they are... have feelings against the war. And therefore if you have views that are skeptical, then you are not to be acceptable."

" Secondly, they are intending to take control of the Americans technical equipment ...those uplinks and satellite phones I was talking about. And control access to the airwaves."

" And then on top of everything else, there is now a blackout (which was imposed, during the last war, at the beginning of the war), ...ordered by one Mr. Dick Cheney, who is in charge of this."

" I am enormously pessimistic of the chance of decent on-the-spot reporting, as the war occurs. You will get it later."

For Jeb: There's no rain on anyone's parade. If the whole thing is a phony, there would have been no need to invoke the Official Secrets Act.

The Official Secrets Act was invoked. That's really all we have to know, because they don't use it for false rumors or hoaxes.

Can somewhere here do a link to the dailykos story....Trophy Video? I haven't learned to link yet, perhaps some here have seen this.....it is pretty ugly. M4

testing

Tried to post a comment a few minutes ago and got all kinds of strange messages. I didn't know if I could still post. Trying to mention the dailykos story about a Trophy video. Maybe that is what triggered my not being able to post? Will end at that and see what happens. M4

Read comment #64 then left and went to dailykos. Started to read the blog I noted above. Took a look at the video of soldiers/mercenaris..who knows.. shooting randomly and then started watching as a soldier shot a dog, just laying their, four times. Took four bullets to kill it I guess, had to turn it off. Makes me so proud to be an American. Can certainly understand why there is no free press allowed in Iraq or the USA anymore. The ones doing the killing over there are making their own videos and showing them proudly to the world. Wonder what dear leader thinks about that. M4 (wonder how the families of the soldier/mercenaries feel...proud, very proud I guess)

Looking up I see my comment did get posted (#66). I must sound like a broken record...sorry all. M4

The video of the mercenaries, sorry I mean, 'security contractors' can be viewed via Crooks & Liars - .

Bleh. Take two.

VIDEO HERE

Thank you Partridge for posting the link. I have to learn than yet...I think these videos need to put all put together and shown on a big screen at every rally...as a backdrop. Let everyone see why we don't need a draft...what with private armies paid for, on our dime, to shoot randamly. Let everyone see why reporters are being silenced and killed.

I also believe the mercenaries are well equiped by Aegis, Blackwater, whoever. More so than our own military with no armor, etc. Does bushco care about our soldiers, I think not. They are cannon fodder. We pay millions to those companies, to execute at will, the people of Iraq, and I suspect they are well protected with all the latest in gear and safety, provided by some other company with big connections to the regime in the U.S.

The 'shooting dogs for fun' video appears to be our soldiers. Ohmigod, tell me it is not true. If true, I have lost my respect for any soldier carrying out this sport for fun. Their mama's are probably the right wing Christians that are supporting bushco, I have to believe that to keep my sanity.

The contractors/merenaries are outing themselves, God does work in mysterious ways. America has sold her soul to the devil. We shall reap what we have sown. M4

Bush and Company will be standing in the court next to Sadam soon. Murder, weapons of mass distruction, civilians killed under the cover of lies to get oil. Keep the pressure on, Bush will kill himself when the ego crashes. I hope the doctors are watching him. I would like to see him in irons.

I'm afraid that this is just going to be another totally unacceptable action by the Bush/Blair mafia.
It'll probably do some time in the press and the courts, most people won't even pay attention to it. And it will get swept under the carpet with all the other 'conspiracy theories' and never properly investigated etc. It will be made into 'acceptable' behaviour. The fact that they were discussing bombing a TV station on allied soil will be ignored or lost on many people. Apathy reigns. Though I do feel that that last truth is becoming less true as more and more or these 'leaks' occur.

I guess it's going to take quite a while longer for you leftists to finally wise up. When Al-Jazeera starts airing videos of US forces cutting off the heads of al-qaeda and other islamic extremists then the Jacksonians of this country will finally be happy and as far as you guys are concerned...you can go sing Kumbaya with Cindy Sheehan while we're saving your ass.

I am awake...it is those that are sleeping that are missing the 'game' show. The U.S. will not 'win' in Iraq. The U. S. does not intend to bring freedom to Iraq.

Bushco is insuring Corporate ownership of a Country, ie: oil. The Corporations don't give one wit about the Iraqi people, or any people, unless they are used as slave labor to fatten their portfolios.

The U.S. military is being used as a distraction. The ones running Iraq are Corporations...anyone that cannot see that is asleep. bushco doesn't want to bring the troops home because the truth about this dirty war may come out of their mouths. Better to bring them home in coffins. Note, seems many have written their 'if you are reading this I am dead' letters.

Paid mercenaries are fighting this so called war, with all the necessary equipment to do so, paid for by 'we the people'. The troops are nothing, get nothing, are simply cannon fodder. Are only there to further the Big Lie, a source of cheap labor, and a wedge to drive between the American people.

The troops could leave today but bushco will not allow them too. They need to be there so the sleeping ones can dream about democracy in Iraq..gag. They could leave today, but what would happen to all the money being handed to Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Aiges, etc. by Congress.

Would Congress continue to approve billions to fight the 'war on terra'. I think so. Congress gets elected by the same Corporations (doing what they are told to do) so what is the loss. The loss is that a few sleeping Americans might wake up and say, what is happening here? The troops are no longer there but yet Congress continues to fund this 'war on terra'. bushco has to keep the troops in Iraq, but will continue to undermine them at every turn. That is the message, his 'stay the course' message...for his Corporate handlers...not the American people.

This is the 'game', same one used in Viet Nam. The Corporations were fat and happy and the troops fought with one hand tied behind their backs.

The American Military could come home and the Corporations running the war could continue to do so, however, their costs would go up, because the slave labor (troops) would be gone.

Congress would then have to approve a few billion more to keep the Corporations happy (hire more CSD). The Corporations that are raping the American public with their inflated costs and pocketing a major portion of the Congress approved spending bills. Corporations dictate to those in government, not the other way around.

We have entered a new age. America is no longer governed by anyone representing 'the people'. America is now the Home of Corporations and The Land of the Slaves. This has been happening for years, but never so blatently then in the last five years.

Let the sleeping ones sleep. When they awake the majority will no longer recognize America nor will they care. The few that do understand what has happened will perhaps slow down this machine whose next goal is Syria or Iran, stepping stones only to the Supreme Corporate goal of Empire, which includes total complete control of the Middle East and all it's natural resourses.

The Corporate message..The people be damned. The government, all branches, work for them, they do not work for the people of America. M4

It is a shame , a heinous shame on both the American administration and the British gvt.Just daring to have such terrible thoughts to bomb savagely the offices of a great media channel bring America back to the dark ages when there were no freedoms .This show how wild fantasies to control the world is corrupting the rulers of America into the betrayal of the very principles of their nation. On the other hand , sueing the Daily Mirror is unfair .Blair should be ashamed of doing such action .The tabloid should be rather be thanked .

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