oh yeah!

Hooray for Mr. Conyers!!!

Are we bad people or what!!! Great going,Brad and hooters to you Mr. Conyers,will send email thanking him.

And thank you , Dr. Pastor.

Just think, A meeting arranged and accomplished in less than 48 hours. What power 6 or 7 emails have!
Peter in Oregon-home of the mailin ballot

Thanks Brad, John Conyers.. AND Dr. Pastor!!! - Maybe all those emails, letters, faxes, etc. worked!! You never know!! (seems probable!!)

At least it's some progress (no matter what scale!).. that much we can all welcome!!

Peace!!

Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to 6 or 7"

??

(heh!)

I do believe that the "Powers That Be" are learning a whole new civics lesson with the advent of a free internet and email accessible by everyday Americans.

Way to go Brad! Take a raise out of Petty Cash!

Mahalo and Aloha
DC

LOL!! Bej, thanks for the first good laugh all day!!

Re letters to Pastor: I felt very bad after my snarky letter to him yesterday and late last night emailed an apology. I made it clear I was still very upset and concerned about the election fraud issues, but the personal attack on his ethics and morals was totally out of line! LOL! It reminds me to go ahead and write when I'm pissed, but not to hit that "send" until I've calmed down!
:blush:

Excellent job everyone!! BRAD, YOU ROCK!!!

I'm so proud of being associated with all of you. Of course, like Brad says, cooperate 100% with Mr. Conyers for now. If the "other side" (not Mr. Conyers) plays "dirty", however, it's battle stations again. And who trusts the "other side" to give up so easily and not play "dirty"??????? NOT ME! The work has only just begun (BUT YOU ALL CAN DO IT!!!)

Haha! Curses! FOILED again! (Tinfoiled that is)

I'm waiting for that personal apology to Brad from Dr. Pastor. I would think anyone who holds a prominent position with a group such as Common Cause would be very familiar with emailed form letters, so I'm not convinced yet that he's on our side.

Jen #9
I didn't see anything wrong with your letter, in fact I'm glad you were candid. The Dims should take a lesson and turn the light switch to the brightest level and shine it on those dark entities who presently rule the roost.

Thanks Kira #12.

Anyways, I wanted to share this bit of happy "news" I got this morning! I posted this earlier on my "home" blog and am just copying that post here:

When I got home I got a phone call from someone working for Kerry. They called to thank me for signing the "Kids Come First" Act, and of course for $.

Before he could get to any of that I expressed to him that my #1 concern is with the election system, went over some of the problems from the '04 election, and asked if he knew if Kerry was aware that the election was stolen. He said he is very aware of it and one of the reasons he's not speaking out is because they are still in the process of gathering all the information and proof they can before publicly addressing it.

He said they knew that if they tried to address the stolen election before they had "all their ducks in a row" (my words, not his) they would be labeled conspiracy nuts and ridiculed to the point of people not believing any of what they said. He said as far as the paperless voting machines that it would take longer than if there had been a paper traill, but that it is still traceable. He also said the same thing about the Vote Tabulators - that even if the hacking of the machines was done in a way that couldn't be detected, that they can detect it but it takes longer...

I didn't ask how or any details of what's being done, but I thought it was somewhat encouraging and interesting that Kerry is in fact part of the investigations and discovery process - makes me wonder who else is involved that is just being very quite about it!

Oh Jen #12, what an excellent day this is!! Thanks for sharing that news.

Congratulations Brad & 6 or 7 emailers!

Thanks Jen for your interesting news.
Do we know who hired the private investigator that gave Clinton Curtis his polygraph?
Is it possible that it was someone working for Kerry?
I gathered from comments that Teresa Heinz Kerry made that she believes the election could have been stolen.
I've been so disgusted with Kerry's quick concession and lack of leadership on this issue that I unsubscribed to his
mailing list.
I'm still not sure what to believe in regards to Kerry.

Okay. I had composed this letter after reading Brad's words on Congressman Conyer's meeting with Dr. Pastor and was prepared to send it by snail-mail to Pastor but, after reading Conyer's full statement just linked here by Brad, I wonder, ala Jen (#9), if I am being too strident or if the letter would be counterproductive. I'll ask for the excellent wisdom that most of you constantly demonstrate on this blog in deciding whether to send it.

Thanks!

THE LETTER:

Dear Dr. Pastor-

I am one of the “6 or 7” people who “signed” (and, in my case, additionally commented in) Velvet Revolution’s group e-mail to your commission. I am also one of the, no doubt, thousands of people who have individually e-mailed or otherwise attempted to communicate with you since your unfortunate words with Brad Friedman. Out of respect to Congressman John Conyers, Brad Friedman and Velvet Revolution, I am honoring their request to not send anymore e-mails directly to you. I will extend that to faxes, as well, but I do feel it necessary and appropriate to communicate with you by regular mail.

Although I have no doubt that you were overwhelmed by the number of e-mails and other communications you have received in the past few days and likely could not read all or most of them even if you had a mind to do so, I sincerely hope that you have at least read some of them and perhaps begun to understand the outrage that your words have provoked. I really believe that your secretly formed and insultingly constituted commission was dead in the water from its inception as far as having any real credibility or likelihood of producing any meaningful electoral reform. If it somehow wasn’t at the onset, your words have almost certainly delivered its death knell.

If there is even the shred of a chance that something meaningful and popularly acceptable can still come out of your commission, I truly believe it would require your resignation from the commission and your statement that, in the interest of fairness and furtherance of the stated goals of the commission, Mr. Baker should also be replaced and that individuals like John Conyers, and true voting rights groups like Velvet Revolution should also have a voice in the hearings. I also believe that this is the only way you can hope to regain any of your own badly (perhaps, fatally) damaged credibility as an advocate for voting rights and the democratic cause.

While it would not serve the same purpose and benefit, I would suggest that if you cannot make the decision to resign your commission, you at least take the opportunity to apologize for your extremely unfortunate words and actions to all of us who, with profound and genuine concern for our democracy and the integrity of its voting process, e-mailed your commission in the first place and you, personally in the aftermath of your deplorable words and actions.

Sincerely,

Steve #16

IMHO (and what do I know?) maybe we shouldn't demand Pastor's resignation yet - I do think he owes Brad and the rest of us an apology.

I also think we should make it clear that we do not want nationalization of our elections. We do not want the federal government (stacked as it is) to have more power over our votes.

I would also like to see someone who is non-partisan and extremely literate in computers & hacking - the person who comes to mind is Chuck Herrin, a Republican who is not fooled by the last 2 presidential election returns. He is with us - and he is a professional "white hat" hacker --- anyway I'd like to see him standing on equal footing with Pastor and be a fully vested member of this Commission. We can't have a reasonable outcome if we don't have that kind of representation.

In other words, putting computer illiterates in charge of a Commission that is dead set to automate our voting systems across the board nationally, is moronic. I refuse to support that kind of slap in the face. If it defies all logic, it must be fraud.

Excellent letter Steve #16! Okay, since you asked, this is my opinion - please don't change anything because of what I say though as I'm sure there will be other's who will offer better advice! (see, by the time I pasted this into the comment box, Kira already had some great ideas!)

I would leave the first 2 paragraphs as they are - it lets him know how deeply concerned and involved you are. The 3rd paragraph could be re-written maybe leaving out the part about him resigning? which would also result in having to change the first lines of the 4th paragraph.

Personally I feel he does owe Brad an apology and as far as replacing James Baker, I don't think that can be stressed enough!!

Great job!!

*just smiles* This is great news y'all. And yeah, I'm hesitant to trust them too, but you know, it has to start somewhere. Let's hope for the best - and if this works out the way we hope it will, we'll have one HELL of a story to tell our children and grandchildren!

Brad - I swear if I ever meet you I'm just gonna give you a big hug!

Kira and Jen- thanks so much for your thoughts.

To Brad, John Conyers and everyone who sent e-mails and letters to Dr. Pastor- my thanks and congratulations on the apparent impact of all of our efforts. Brad, you are truly becoming a player in the political dialogue in this country and, in doing so, have given all of us a greater voice in the process. THANK YOU for all you are doing! I will also thank Congressman Conyers on his blogsite. Power To The People!

Once again the great John Conyers pushes forward unrelenting until change takes place. The man is golden inside and out!

I expect his sit down with Jimmy Carter to very detailed and productive. No one can turn away his 102 page report and not be concerned (for democracy's sake) with what happened in Ohio.

Wonderful news once again Brad.

Jen #13.

Thank you so much. I was certain of this. Kerry has risen and now we are in for a wild ride. Check out his speech on the nuclear option..Cspan 2 and his latest video on johnkerry.com.

We are getting this taken care of on all fronts. Brad and co. moved so fast and so accurately that the gods are satisfied. They know we mean business.

Last night Mike Malloy had Bush supporters call in and it was tragic. They have lost it, and now know they have been duped. They sounded weak and helpless. Pitiful.

We can move forward successfully now.

peterpont #5, Ben #7 yep ... see what 6 or 7 folks can do when they put their resources together!

Jen #13 The exit poll data, being scientific, is circumstantial evidence enough for a conviction. Add the corroborating evidence that is not at all circumstantial and there is no reasonable doubt. Even a criminal conviction could be had.

But prosecutors have the discretion whether or not to prosecute, and many of them who hold the cards have Blackwell's Syndrome, a disease we are all aware of.

Kira #17, #18 Most excellent idea!

'Republicans are facists' is not at all 100% true. But 'Neocons are fascists' is true.

Kira-
Great suggestion here and on John Conyer's blogsite about adding Chuck Herrin to the commission. It is a must!

Thanks y'all! My brain must be working today - LOL!

I'm sending my letter to Pastor, as is. His arrogant response to Brad is no less arrogant for his more reasonable response today.

I'm also forwarding to CDEM@american.edu the message I sent to the president of American University.

Can you believe? They use bombs, bayonets, and bazookas, while we use E-MAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The mighty new weapon. Almost drownwd poor Mr. Pastor.

Teresa #29

I do hope the new email address CDEM@american.edu is not a big computer in an empty room - out of sight, out of mind sort of thing. Me & my cynical views.

Kestrel #20 - I hope with you; but, the "people" behind the Bush administration, which holds the highest office in the country, which HAS BEEN the most powerful country in the world, are NOT going to give up all this power lightly. These people are prepared to let any number of innocents die, American, Iraqi, anyone, to retain their hold on this kind of power: this is probably and nearly the greatest power any human being can hold in this world. Power over billions of dollars, power over those who are poorer and simpler, power over elections, power over voting, power over other countries, power at the UN, power over the military, power over the media. They are not going to slouch off because some e-mails were sent to this commission. No. It's going to take a lot more - so hold on to your hat. They are BAD and they are going to LOSE. The good guys and gals are NOT going to stop until they are gone, gone, gone!

Never underestimate the power of the word.

Just posted the following as #24 on John Conyer's Blog --- Check it out, Brad. I believe it is evidence of the wolf scheming while he's smiling:

Comment #24: Barbara Bellows-TerraNova said on 4/21/05 @ 7:59pm ET...

Dear Representative Conyers:

You are a true American hero. Thank you.

Are you aware that The Carlyle Group, with which Mr. Baker has been so involved, owns a company called Qinetiq, formerly a part of the British Ministry of Defense, which is trying out electronic voting in Ireland? Please check the article "British firm with defence links to test e-voting system" dated April 16 in The Irish Times.

Beware of James Baker. There is always an ulterior motive and his lawyers are everywhere.

My sincere appreciation to you, Rep Stubbs Jones, Senator Boxer and Brad.

It's not really the content of the e-mails that scares them, I think. It is the speed and the massive volume and the potential outrageous power behind it all. We could easily cut them off at the knees.

Teresa #29
the mouse is mighter than the sword!

If nothing else, we've succeeded in showing establishmentarians like Pastor that we mean business. No more phony commissions, no more references to "voter fraud," no more halfway measures and promises to "improve" HAVA, while the "f" word remains unsaid for fear of upsetting the stock market.

Thank you, Brad, and thank you, Rep. Conyers. We've regained the momentum, and the liars and cheaters are back on the defensive.

Yes, Ha ha ha, Mmiixx #35!!

Hahahahaha!! MMIIXX #35

The Mouse that Roared!!

----
'Republicans are facists' is not at all 100% true. But 'Neocons are fascists' is true.

Dredd
----

Pure bullshit. Those who support and voted for this fascists administration are indeed fascists themselves.

You can do your damnedest to defend this party all you want but you can't change the facts.

Come to understand.

The only CONS I like are EmotiCONS!! Thanks Dredd for the MSN link (I surreptitiously got that link from your emoties!)

Republicans are Fascists #39

Hmmm - you've got a point. Ignorance is no excuse when it comes to destroying Democracy.

Maybe Pastor could extend his training and experience by appearing on Brad's radio show. Then again, probably only 6 or 7 people would phone in...

Conyers for Speaker in '08.

Dang it. I meant to say
Conyers for Speaker in '06

Mmiixx #35

I'm a Hard Clickin' Sister!

Aren't we all Clickheads?

Republicans are economic dickhead morons. They've done what they always do. Lead us into economic ruin. And once again, the Democrats have to take over to fix it.

RE: #41 Kira

Kira, I have more than a point. My online name is dead on correct.

It's the uninformed and ignorant like Dredd who have a hard time discerning between fact and opinion. This uniformed mentality that is so prevelant in our society today is exactly the reason our country has fallen so low.

It's sad also how this person chose to distract from the important info on Conyers by calling out a fellow poster.

Today a closer step... maybe. Today we celebrate and start again and tomorrow we'll do more of the same. Democracy is a (full frontal) contact sport, so lets all get back to work MAKING NOISE!!!

Republicans Are Fascists-

I would not be so quick to jump on Dredd and argue with a compatriot in the cause. I know personally of several Republicans who did not vote for Bush and who are appalled by what he and his administration are doing. They continue to call themselves Republicans. At a certain point, it is just a name or a label and we should all be careful to not be too quick to over generalize. We are all in this fight together and I'll take Democrats, Republicans or whatever on our side, as long as their heart is in the right place.

I'm with Steve on comment #48.

Republicans are Fascists #46

What about the Republicans who didn't vote for bu$h?

Woops - I hadn't seen Steve's when I posted my #50. Just so you don't think I'm dingier than I am.

DREDD's on the side of "truth" as his posts have shown ,what other side is there.
End of story.

re #51: No problem, Kira. We all make mistakes sometimes. I make a pile of them myself, and the best I can hope for is to make most of mine when nobody's watching!

Maybe I should elaborate on my previous comment (#49). I have read many essays by conservative Republicans who feel that their party has been hijacked out from under their noses. They're ticked about it --- and some of them are a lot angrier than many liberal-Democrats seem to be. As I have written previously, both here and over at please don't read my blog, these guys are telling the truth as they see it, they love this country as much as anyone on the left does, and if we don't give them credit for at least this much, it's going to be awfully difficult to form a broad-based coalition. I think such a coalition is our best hope --- perhaps our only hope --- and I, like Steve (in #48), would hate to see labels get in the way.

For an example of a prominent Republican who doesn't seem like a fascist, consider Ron Paul, whose essay "What If (It Was All a Big Mistake)?" was the subject of this BradBlog thread. Another good example is Paul Craig Roberts, whose essays are regularly published at counterpunch.org.

re #47. Another good point, Torqued. It's completely understandable that this news makes people happy, but we can't waste too much time celebrating. There is so much more to be done.

Boy, everyone's been busy since I last visited! Great news all 'round, and I'll finish reading the comments once I get THIS bit of BS off my chest.

About two months ago, my mother wrote our Senator, Olympia Snowe, a letter expressing dismay at the apparently fraudulent "election" that reinserted * into ours lives and our nightmares. Not until today was her letter answered, and I find the timing of it curious, given its opening paragraph:

"Dear ________:

"Thank you for contacting me regarding the presidential election. I appreciate hearing from you.

"You expressed concern regarding the validity of the 2004 presidential election. When Senator Boxer and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones challenged the validity of the Ohio electoral votes, the challenge was rejected in the Senate by a bipartisan vote of 74 to 1, and by a vote of 267 to 31 in the House of Representatives. Eighty-eight separate bipartisan election boards, from every county of Ohio, verified and vouched for the integrity of the results. Not a single local, county or state election official in Ohio contested this election. When all the votes were finally counted in Ohio, President Bush received 120,000 votes[sic]."

(Was that last statement a freudian slip?)

Anyway, I think the powers-that-shouldn't-be are feeling uneasy. Last week's Newsweek featured a "heartfelt" essay by a naturalized Nigerian, who voted for Kerry, entitled "My Candidate Lost, But My Vote Was Counted." Isn't that a bit much?!

Now, back to the thread...great work Brad, and every fine person here!!

This is wonderful news!!! I hope all goes well and they just don't listen and they do take action with his irregularities. I'm glad Mr. Carter is working with him. Good job! God bless everybody who wrote! I'm glad I did.

Steve #48, Winter P #53 -

Well spoken.

Thanx #53 Winter "please don't read my blog" Patriot. I'm not going to follow your advice, though, because I like reading your blog.

That label thing started back in the '80s and the heavy campaign by the neoCON propaganda machine (ala Newt Gingrich - read this article

At the same time NLP was being used for therapy and to enhance communications, the dark side of the force was getting aggressive. Newt Gingrich in particular --- skilled in these techniques --- was working with Republican leaders and conservatives in the media to frame the word "liberal" as something akin to "traitor," an effort that ultimately led to his infamous "secret" memo to GOP leaders titled "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control."

As FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting) notes, Newt wrote, "Often we search hard for words to help us define our opponents. ... Apply these [words] to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.

"Decay... failure (fail)... collapse(ing)... deeper... crisis... urgent(cy)... destructive... destroy... sick... pathetic... lie... liberal... they/them... unionized bureaucracy... ‘compassion’ is not enough... betray... consequences... limit(s)... shallow... traitors... sensationalists...endanger... coercion... hypocrisy... radical... threaten... devour... waste... corruption... incompetent... permissive attitudes... destructive... impose... self-serving... greed... ideological... insecure... anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs... pessimistic... excuses... intolerant... stagnation... welfare... corrupt... selfish... insensitive... status quo... mandate(s)... taxes... spend(ing)... shame... disgrace... punish (poor...)... bizarre... cynicism... cheat... steal... abuse of power... machine... bosses... obsolete... criminal rights... red tape... patronage."

On the other hand, FAIR notes, Newt suggested that Republicans should also "memorize as many as possible" of the following "Positive Governing Words" to apply to any reference to Republicans or GOP efforts: ***MORE***

So - the labels were put in place by the Republican neoCONs to exclude and neuter those who are not a part of their gang.

IMO, we need to remember that and not give any power to their playground bully games. The labels Republican and Democrat used to be non-threatening and I think we need to get back to that place.

RE: #48 Steve
-----
"Republicans Are Fascists-

I would not be so quick to jump on Dredd and argue with a compatriot in the cause. "
-----

I'm so quick to jump on Dredd? UMMM shouldn't that be Dredd so quick to jump on me?

So you want to split hairs on the FEW republicans who didn't vote for Bush and all of a sudden jump on the nitwit bandwagon that my online name is all of sudden so far fetched and inaccurate?

I think this blog in it's new found popularity has followed suit with most other online discussions, the pack mentality reigns.

----
"Well spoken. "

Peg C
----

LOL, if you say so.

Republicans are Fascists #59

Lots of Republicans ARE Fascists. I've always liked your online name! But back to your statement that only a FEW repubs voted against bu$h --- well --- remember that we all believe the election numbers were fraudulent. There may have been a lot more who voted for Kerry than you give credit to. The rest of 'em can take a flying leap, though or at least get a brain.

RE#52 MMIIXX

LOL, another if you say so.

Now this is really getting pathetic. EXIT stage left. another online discussion board taken over by the pack mentality.

re # 58: Yes, Kira! Good point!

In fact, the idea that one can "define" an opponent is sheer nonsense. Nobody can define anybody. Definitions apply to words, not people.

It seems to me that Gingrich would have been a lot more accurate if he had written: "Often we search hard for words to help us slander our opponents..." But he could never have written that --- it would have been too honest.

Republicans are Fascists at #59

I think you are taking it too personally... What Dredd said is "true" in a "strict sense".. if even ONE 'Republican' disagreed with the fascists in power but still believed themselves to be a Repub, then 'technically' what Dredd said is true. His assertion wasn't that you (your name) was 'far fetched and innacurate' in that context, he was mentioning that "all neo-cons -are- fascists even though only -most- Republicans are"..

Personally, I don't think "all" Republicans are "fascists".. I think they are all greedy, stingey, foolish, etc.. but not exactly "fascists".. Can't you see that their belief that "they should pay less taxes" and "businesses do what's right for people" and "big governments are wasteful" are at least 'partially' correct in some contexts? Not to mention, historically, Rebublican has been about "conservative moral stances" and "pro-gun" and the like.. Passing laws that help "small businesses" (even though it never quite happened well enough to matter, and always had -large- loop-holes for big businesses)..

Anyway, Dredd wasn't "attacking" you.. granted, perhaps his statement didn't need to be made, but in this day and age when we (as in the guys fighting for truth) are trying to be as "exacting" as we can, his statement is (seemingly) valid; I didn't get the sense he was 'picking a fight', but you (seemingly) got very defensive..

I think part of the "point" (even if Dredd didn't intend for it to be a point) is that, we need to be 'careful' in an overall context about how we lable things. If we make sweeping statements too often, people will stop listening to us.. that's a bad thing since we're speaking truths (and trying to be accurate as often as we can) and we need their support as well.. *shrug*

Just my 2 cents worth.. I like the input from both of you.. there's no need for animosity..

re #62. Thanks for your kind words.

Seriously, though: this blog has always accepted the idea that people have a variety of viewpoints --- and they are all welcome here. [Or at least most of them are --- freeper trolls have not been made especially welcome, but everyone else certainly is!]

We have a ton of things to do, most of which are more important than arguing about whether ALL republicans are fascists or only SOME of them. I hope you will hang around and keep contributing to the discussions.

And I hope you will keep your online name, too. Several contributors here see it as an overly broad brush. But so what? That doesn't mean you have to exit stage left! It doesn't mean you have to exit at all.

Yeah, baby! I'm so glad I sent that e-mail to Pastor now! Go Brad, Go VR and GOOOOOO Conyers!

We are like a family - brothers & sisters. Please stay Republicans are Fascists. We need you.

Can't say it enough...Thank you, Brad!! Thank you, John Conyers!! And a big thank you to the gods-that-be for the two of you...
I just have to weigh in here & say I think Chuck Herrin would be an excellent choice for this commission.
It's unrealistic to demand (not that anyone here has done this) that members of a commission like this be "non-partisan". If you're a politician and you have a pulse, it's a safe bet you lean one way or the other! People have opinions. I've always thought it was naive to actually believe that Supreme Court justices are somehow exempt from this. Guess we know a little better now, after their stellar performance during election 2000.
I had a long, unexpected, heart-to-heart conversation today with a conservative, a guy who had come to see about tiling my floors! He was a good man and we sat at my dining room table and got into our views on God, Bush, the state of the country and whether porcelain is better than marble.
Good people disagreeing amiably: one small step for mankind!

Well Joan whats better porcelain or marble.

Dialogue --- not resignations and firings --- is the wiser course. I'm glad to read we are moving in that direction.

I did write Dr. Pastor from my home email addie so he'd know he hadn't merely been spammed by six or seven. Sent him my home phone number too, in case he wanted to chat. So far, no call...

Tuff number going on now.
I have been just setting back and enjoying the view and then there was this 'change'--a simple differrence of an opinion, and actually only a 'part' of an opinion, and bam! What happened? What should have passed for a 'semantic' concept of minor importance becomes turf to be defended, or abandoned.

None of that! Just take a bit of time to bask in a rare bit of success, thank Brad for having gotten us to this point and shake hands-(E-style) and dig in. We have a long hard row to hoe and we need everyone.

Republicans are fascists #59

"I think this blog in it's new found popularity has followed suit with most other online discussions, the pack mentality reigns."

Pack mentality is grouping all Republicans together like that and parroting the fascist accusation. It is simply untrue.
Name calling is a very, very, very , very bad idea, especially when the stakes are so high as in our current battle. Using phrases like this makes one sound uninformed, and it stoops to the level of the adversary we are fighting.

As Winter pointed out, Ron Paul is not a fascist. He is very interesting. He is the only one in Congress who is advocating and end to the Federal Reserve and nationalization of our monetary system so control will be back in the people's hands.

Before you label anyone a fascist, you should study the individual case.

An important thing to keep in mind is that the Republican party is in deep trouble. We will be finding valuable allies among them in order to end this impossible regime.

Republicans Are Fascists (#59)

I won't belabor the point as several other commenters have done a better job than I could at trying to suggest why we should "split hairs". I really wasn't trying to take sides. I didn't really think Dredd's comment was meant as a challenge to you and I was trying to interpret what I thought he meant. I have no problem with your on-line name and had no intention of slighting it. I have always thought it was clever with a touch of what I assumed was intended hyperbole to make a point. What has always been important to me was not your on-line name but the many excellent comments you have made on this blog. You've been a great contributor and I certainly hope you will continue to be. My apologies for any offense.

..... and Clint Curtis was a Republican, and he seems like a regular sort of guy!

Sorry Steve I just belabored some more, I'll drop the subject!
Now where were we?

In the credit where it's due department, I found this nicely written letter to the editor in today's Northwest Herald online. Letter-writer Vicki Dow even mentions Clint Curtis.

It begins:

The sins of the Bush administration are many, but the most damaging likely is the loss of confidence in the integrity of our elections.

Election Thieves. Check it out ...

Blackboxvoting have this warning about "The Devil in the detail" regarding new EAC "VVPAT" paper trails standards.

Just another two cents on an already overly-belabored point. People are people. Republicans are Fascists is a valued commenter, and I hope he/she sticks around.

I personally know (and, in a few cases, love) many life-long, committed Republicans who are shocked, horrified, by the party as exemplified by Bush and the neocons and campaigned very loudly for Kerry. Their Republicanism is an old, self-reliant New England tradition based upon an idea that free people, with less governmental interference, will work out their own problems and sustain themselves, through commerce and civility.

Now, I happen to be of the socialist persuasion, which figures in duplicity and the ever-present suspicion of self-interest in the posturing of any public figure seeking power. I believe that a good government is one that guarantees its citizens the rights of representation and of a constant commitment to the welfare of the citizenry. Call me a commie? Don't you dare. Our Founding Fathers, at least as far as their rhetoric went, were socialists right along with me and MY forebears.

Amongst my "Republican" friends: our electrician, a selectman, who - when questioned by us when he came to service our generator - said he was scared to death of Bush and his agenda and would do anything to remove him. A Christian pastor and his wife who are aghast at the iamge of "Christianity" being projected by the CONS. Cousins and uncles and aunts and...a legion of conservatives who are not fooled by fascist evil.

I read the letter, American Woman. Very concise and well written. Kudos to the Northwest Herald for printing it.

The thing that struck me about the letter is how powerful the fact of a 5-1/2% discrepancy between exit polls and tabulated vote is. One statistic. Not a conspiracy theory, not loser talk...a statistic. Just keep repeating it, whenever you hear "Get over it" from some right-wing moron.

For a post script, add, "Exit polls were dead on wherever paper ballots were used, so that means the actual discrepancy, in the electronic voting states only, must have been greater than 5-1/2%." If you need more, add, "Exit polls had the Senate race in Florida called within a fraction of a point, but were way off on the presidential race. Unless there was fraud in the tabulated vote, that can only mean that the same people who told the truth to exit pollsters about the Martinez-Castor contest lied about the Bush-Kerry race."

In the face of these facts, a college professor, with a doctorate no less, has the temerity to say.
"Republicans won" in defending the make-up of a commission whose responsibility, ostensibly, is to determine who in fact did win. That's just beyond the pale. Incomprehensible.

Hey does anybody like Terry Jones of Monty Python? Need a laugh while studying our political situation? He's written a book "Terry Jones's War on the War on Terror." Fun article at Mother Jones .com --- The former Python takes aim at Bush and Blair --- without losing his sense of humor.

Another good one posted in the Guardian --- I'm losing patience with my neighbours, Mr Bush

American Woman #77 -

Great little link.. Thank you.

I'm going to re-post from up-thread, because I believe the content was swallowed in another controversy. Below is a paragraph from a letter written by our supposedly "moderate" senator, Olympia Snowe, in which she not only commits innumerable logical solecisms in denying legitimacy to the theory of election fraud but claims that the Bush total in Ohio - NOT his margin - was 120,000 votes!

Was this nerves, do you think?

"Dear ---:

"Thank you for contacting me regarding the presidential election. I appreciate hearing from you.

"You expressed concern regarding the validity of the 2004 presidential election. When Senator Boxer and Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones challenged the validity of the Ohio electoral votes, the challenge was rejected in the Senate by a bipartisan vote of 74 to 1, and by a vote of 267 to 31 in the House of Representatives. Eighty-eight separate bipartisan election boards, from every county of Ohio, verified and vouched for the integrity of the results. Not a single local, county or state election official in Ohio contested this election. When all the votes were finally counted in Ohio, President Bush received 120,000 votes[sic]."

The timing and the sheer sleaziness of this letter deserve some attention.

[CRAP] Story from Faux News
"Some liberal groups had called for Baker to resign because he was part of the Bush election team in 2000. But during Monday's hearing, Carter put that notion to rest.

"President Gerald Ford is my favorite Republican. My second favorite is James Baker. I'm very delighted he's agreed to serve as co-chair in this process," he said."

We'll see about that Jimmy!

Although many of them were fascists during World War II, and really split off the radar with democrats and others who condemned roosevelt.

There was so many fascist dems and repubs after WWII its insane, and many of them directly from germany. Lots of them are still in power in certain places but a better name for them would be "dominionists"

You can see this entity has always invaded different parties over the century, and has done all sorts of damage when you read here

http://www.yuricareport.com

Republicans themselves though and Democrats are nothing but an entity. You shouldn't associate the entire group and/or parties with an idea like fascism, because its more often than not a huge number of extremists from these parties who do it.

Dominionists on the other hand, nothing said about them has ever been really a good word. So you might as well think dominionists are fascists, because basically they are and they force their views on the easily corrupted parties.

Ronald

KIRA, How about this Eric Idle ditty?

Peg C., that's interesting. Another "Fraudian" slip? We know, the truth will out.

Bushw@cker - you got all my favorite links! Of course, I'm such a Monty Python fan.

I was just going to say that I followed your link to Faux News and now I have to run get a shower. (It makes me feel so dirty to visit their sites!) Truthfully, I will not tune in to the Faux channel on my TV or visit on the web. I will read News Hounds occasionally, but even that gives me the heebeejeebees! (I digress)

That article was written on Monday I think (?) - What's been reported since the email & other correspondence overflow? Or is the silence still deafening?

Kira -

I hope to God it will...

Kira & Bushwacker-
Hope I'm not breaking up your private Monty Python Party. It's after 1:00 am my time but I couldn't fall asleep because I got to thinking about what REPUBLICANS ARE FASCISTS said and the discussion that ensued. In a way, I have to admit this point: while it is not fair to judge all Republicans as individuals to be Fascists, it is not an unreasonable position to judge the Republican Party, as it now stands, as Fascist in its character. Certainly, the Republicans that count, that is the leadership of the Republican Party, could fairly be described as Fascists, at least in the sense that REPUBLICANS ARE FASCISTS is using the term. I think I can understand his (I make the assumption of male gender) frustration when we point out that not all Republicans are fascists when he is probably looking at the practical reality that those who are not fascists have little (or no) role or power in the party, at least on a national level. Therefore, in dealing with Republicans as a GROUP, it probably isn't unfair to apply that label.
Just a thought from my sleep-deprived brain. Hope he comes back to the discussion.

I told you once!

You're right KIRA, they're so bloody funny!
I just downl.. I've just purchased a copy of Python Live at the Bowl!

Steve #99
I take your point that dominant movers & shakers within the GOP are fascist!

KIRA

My nipples explode with delight!

Oh Bushwacker stop it!! Drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime.

I leave you with that thought!

I still would say republicans are not fascists, because there is far more republicans in the party that disagree with fascism than there are who do agree.

The republican party has turned fascist though, no one can deny that. Just as at one time the democratic party had gone completely neo-liberal and McCarthyistic.

Fascism in all its forms should be destroyed, and the remains of Nazi Germany needs to be impeached right out of our country. This time, I say for good.

Dan

I still would say republicans are not fascists, because there is far more republicans in the party that disagree with fascism than there are who do agree.

The republican party has turned fascist though, no one can deny that. Just as at one time the democratic party had gone completely neo-liberal and McCarthyistic.

Fascism in all its forms should be destroyed, and the remains of Nazi Germany needs to be impeached right out of our country. This time, I say for good.

Dale

If Carter doesn't straighten his ass out I'm giving him a new name: James Earl Crow.

I wonder how much influence the Nazi's did have on our military industrial complex. After WWII, my understanding is that a lot of the top Nazi's were absorbed/recruited by the US. They were supposed to be working for us, but maybe everyone ended up working for fascism.

#59
"I think this blog in it's new found popularity has followed suit with most other online discussions, the pack mentality reigns."

I don't think so. Witness that we here disagree, we blow up at times, then we take a breath (or a few weeks?) and then apologize & move on.
And on that note...thank you, Teresa, for your reply on another thread. You calmed my "troubled" waters!
And welcome back, Supersoling! I was remiss & too caught up in my own thing to say it sooner.
Good to have you here again.

And to Republicans Are Fascists...your name is just fine with me! Thanks to Steve (#99) for expressing it very well.

p.s...... no exploding nipples, please!
(wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more?)

I think it's fair to say that most individual Republicans are not Fascists, but that the party leadership (in particular the Christian right, which is dominant) uses Fascistic methods.

These include appealing to fear, an "us vs. them" mind-set, an "end justifies the means" mentality, a juxtaposition of the roles of victim and victimizer, intimidation of the judiciary, an equating of dissent with disloyalty, and especially an unholy alliance between corporate and government interests. In these respects the Bush administration is quite similar to Franco's Spain or Mussolini's Italy.

Did someone mention the Holy Grail?

For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible.

Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed.

Wrong Number

Ding-a-ling! Ding-a-ling!

"Hello?"

"Is The Beast there?"

"What?"

"Is this The Beast?"

"Who are you trying to reach?"

"I'm trying to reach The Beast. His number is 666."

"What!?" What number are you trying to reach?"

"Is this 666?"

"Yes, but there is no one here by that name. Your scribe must have written down the wrong number."

Well, I do have this to say about SOME Republicans; e.g., John McCain - he's knows very well exactly what is wrong about Bush and the Administration, but he supports Bush IN SPITE OF EVERYTHING. This is what's is bad about McCain and the Republican Party. It's filthy grasp on power is ALL, and the country can go to hell in a handbasket before they will give it up.

O yeah, forgot to say, in answer to your query, MMIIXX (#69),
"Well Joan whats better porcelain or marble?"
Damned if I know! I'm just trying to fix up the house & not go broke.

Peggy, I think it's more accurate to say McCain discovered during the 2000 primary season that Bush will punish anyone who challenges him, with the tacit blessing of the moneyed interests who put him in power. There's not much McCain can do, as long as Bush sits in the White House and as long as he values loyalty over character.

It's further proof that the public (which preferred McCain to Bush) counts for less than the money and power behind the scenes...exactly what we've seen in the elections themselves and the cover-ups afterward. This phony commission headed by Jim Baker is the archetypal example of how they function.

#110
Exactly, right, Peggy, re McCain & many others. I was more than surprised, by the way, to hear Voinovich's recent comments about Bolton. A hopeful sign? Someone here suggested thanking him...I'm not quite ready to do that. I'm waiting to see what else he might have up his sleeve. I'm pretty gun-shy about trusting his motives, given his history.
I remember thinking at some point that McCain seemed pretty decent...then he started campaigning for Bush etc.
I really think the neo-cons keep the reins tight with threats & bribes. How else to convince so many to stay on such a conscienceless, devastating-to-the-country path? Perhaps mass hypnotism???

Hi, Robert! But there is a LOT McCain can do - he just won't. Party before honor, integrity and country. He was a prisoner of war for years...WHAT THE HELL IS HE AFRAID OF NOW???? Sorry, I'm disgusted...

KIRA, I've met Michael Palin at his book signing.
A very silly man if you ask me!

KIRA, This could rapidly descend into one of those mindless exchanges where I say "I am Arthur King of the Britons..... and you say?

Bushw@cker #90

Well, what do you expect from a Representative of the Silly Party?

KIRA #92

Ah yes, the Silly Party with Tarquin-Linbim-Fintim-Bus-stop-Fatang-Fatang-Ole- Biscuit Barell!

#91

Ummm - What ... is your quest?

And yes, this thread will definitely take a silly turn now LOL!

KIRA #92
"Well, what do you expect from a Representative of the Silly Party?"

================================

I didn't expect a kind of Spanish
Inquisition!

#94

To seek the Holy Gra......oh F**k I'm bored!

Bushw@cker - OMG! It's been too loooong a time since I've done this! hehe

Um - I'd like to have an argument, please! Is this the right room to have an argument?

(That's one of my favorite skits)

Very hard to do on a blog. You made me laugh, though. I think I'll rent the Grail over the weekend.

((((((Joan #107))))))

This administration is a mix of ideas they have taken from Naziism, Stalinism, KGB tactics, and fascism. That's one of their big problems. They are confused and inexperienced. Trying to do too much.
They are a pitiful imitation of a classic fascist state.

Let me give you a good example. Bush calls himself a "regular fella" and dresses down rolling up his sleeves. Never in a million years would a fascist dictator break his seperation and superiority over the public. I think they almost always appear in full regalia, standing straight and tall and playing mighty leader to the hilt, never breaking character.

Republicans by nature are followers. They are weak and look for other men to make all the decisions which they are quick to follow. They have an instincual need to rally around a perceived strong leader. They can't help themselves, I don't think. It's not in their nature to disobey, and you can see that struggle right now in Congress as many of them know they are wrong.

Many republicans are not fascists at all. They don't want big centralized government, which is the exact opposite of fascism. And that's why so many of them now are so conflicted. Robert is right. They fear punishment. McCain is a broken man. It happened long ago.

I believe Bolton is out, as is the nuclear option. Things are changing. They have to.

keep in mind also that McCain was chewed up and spit out by the Rove machine several years ago, an unforgettable experience, I'm sure.

Here's a thought.. This is the kind of crap most of us feel Republicans in power do on a regular basis, and feel those that support them (mostly through ignorance) contribute to. At least, it's what I think most people associate to Repubs.. they consider everyone a joke (except their rich white male friends)

This in the wake of the story that showed them PASS a bill making cockfighting a felony and tabling THIS bill. When this kind of crap comes from Republicans in office, it tends to lend to the accusation that Republicans are Fascisits..

I don't think so, Savanster. I think they are afraid, not as cocky(ha ha) as you make out. They are afraid of the rich white guys so they toe the line. They all want to be in with the in crowd but know they can be ruined in an instant. And they want desperately to belong.

Teresa #118

Personally, I disagree. I stand by my observation that most Republicans I've ever met are either ignorant and duped into believing the lies (and end up voting for Repubs).. or are cruel hateful people who enjoy causing pain and problems to others (or, at a minimum, only look out for themselves and support laws that disenfranchise some so they can do better.. which is in practice, to me, no different than being the one doing the abuses).

It's always been my big problem with Democrats.. They always seem to want to remove personal responsibility from people's descisions and overplay the "victim" card. There is NO reason for the "average" voter to vote "republican" because they are "afraid of rich white men"? that just makes no sense.

The "rich white men" in office, who are Republicans, are not there because they are "afraid" of anything.. there there to get rich(er) on the backs of their constituents (on rare occasion to bolster their religious agenda.. which is what's going on in large quantities at the moment).

Anyway, I don't think I want to get into this side-line. It isn't going to serve to further the common causes..

Teresa, #115
Hahaha!...I'm not sure how to take that (((thing)))...
it's kind of like one of Brad's sirens.
But kidding aside, here's my point about the 'fascism' question:
Bottom line, to my mind there are glaring and dangerous parallels between the regimes of Nazi Germany & Stalinist Italy and what we are experiencing now in this country. Not to beat a dead horse, since I've mentioned this more than once here recently, but the Laurence Brill piece "Fascism, Anyone?" is worth a look. Certainly we see expressions today of nationalism, disdain for human rights, the use of scapegoats, a controlled media, and so on right on down Brill's list of fascist characteristics, the last one being fraudulent elections.
You write
"Never in a million years would a fascist dictator break his seperation and superiority over the public. I think they almost always appear in full regalia, standing straight and tall and playing mighty leader to the hilt, never breaking character."
I disagree. The fact that Bush rolls up his sleeves & plays "regular guy" is a difference of style, not substance. These guys are not stupid. They know their audience and they know how to play them.
I think they're familiar with the "dictator in full regalia" and figure that it's yesterday's model and it would scare the bejesus out of people!
Better for their purposes to fashion a nice, folksy, new model that just-plain-folks can identify with. A wolf in nice fuzzy sheep's clothing.
Their chosen pawn plays his role pretty well...it still mystifies me how the man manages to garner respect rather than cringing embarrassment, but evidently he does. (although, given that their talking points are so endlessly repeated, I think it's impossible to say how much of that apparent respect is really overblown fiction).
Anyway, that's how I sees it.

I was going to post this on Rep. Conyers blog but I thought I'd see how it blew over here first.

There is just one point I wish to make, albeit one that's not reassuring. Even if by some miracle James Baker was removed from this committee, it would not make a bit of difference. What no one realizes is how deeply entrenched Jimmy Carter is in the war-for-profit machine that is currently in control. HE IS ONE OF THEM.

Just because he has a "Democrat" tag doesn't mean that he is as honorable and principled as say Rep. John Conyers.

Carter (Clinton as well) were placed into office via the extremely powerful PR machine that floods our airwaves. It eminates from what I call the "ruling class" and their web of organizations that represent the wealthiest families on the planet. Think-tanks like the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, etc. These are the groups that wield the true power in the world, while POTUS wields whatever is delegated to him by these groups.

I hate to throw things like this out there for fear of the "CT" label (conspiracy theory) but there are some historical facts that should be mentioned here which are well documented by impeccable western sources. I will cite just two of them below...

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor

Anybody ever hear of a place called East Timor? It was during Carter's administration when Idonesia invaded this newly liberated country where people still lived in thatch huts and survived by a highly efficient anarchist system of government. Long story short, the U.S. and other western countries proliferated arms sales to Indonesia, who proceeded to kill around 300,000 East Timorese before they were done. Hey, weren't we supposed to be all about peace and protecting the innocent? Carter turned a blind eye to it which should be one clue.

2) http://www.infowars.com/exclusive_new_bg.htm

Bohemian Grove. Every summer a very peculiar gathering takes place in No. California in the Redwoods. Some might say downright scary. Hmm, world leaders obsessed with the occult? Can't be. Certianly no lberals go there right? Who's picture is that about 1/2 way down the page. HE IS ONE OF THEM. This shit should scare you even if you are an athiest, but it certianly DOES happen and Mr. Jimmy Carter definetely DOES attend.

So IMO the decks are stacked against us in all kinds of ways here. I don't see any possible way of having a healthy debate on this issue unless Mr. Carter has had a change of heart recently...didn't he win the Nobel?

Joan #120

Those ((( ))) are hugs.

Rough in riverside #121

You are absolutely right. Those are the groups in charge and Carter is one of them. He was an investor in BCCI as well. One of the elite.

I also think the powers want Bush and co out of the game. So it will be interesting.

Peggy, if McCain challenged Bush openly, Karl Rove would start leaking stuff about him, just as he did during the 2000 primaries. McCain has a history, apparently, of "losing it" at times, which might be exaggerated or might be legitimate but connected to his five years in captivity in Vietnam.

As long as McCain stays on Capitol Hill, Rove has power over him, and McCain knows it. If we had a truly independent press (ha ha), a paper like the Washington Post would expose the underhanded tactics this administration uses. Of course, if we had such a press, the 2000 and 2004 elections would long since have been exposed as fraudulent.

I'd love to see McCain retire, then write a book. He knows where all the skeletons are hidden, and it would be a best-seller.

Just an added note. There were some occult groups historically, but I don't think they are as influential anymore.

These posts are great. #123 check out rigorousinstitution.com,Portland.Indymedia.org..Just keep an open mind..The massive loss of family farms occurred during Carter's administration. His buddies in big ag bought 'em up. I appreciate anyone's positive approach and attitude to people and circumstances. But facts is facts.

I read the post about Kerry just waiting until he ha s all of his 'ducks in a row.' WTF? How long are people expected to wait. That is just a line form his staffers to get you off the case and relax. It is not acceptable to just sit by and be pacified by some more "good news" from the Kerry camp. Either they act now or never.

My point being, they are just waiting for this storm to pass as they sit on their millions. What do they care? Unless we make them care. Right now.

-Justin

For an added dose of reality, the real reason we didn't have people taking to the streets in November and December in Ohio is that the would-be organizers of these rallies were shut down by the FBI. They threatened at least one would-be organizer of a rally in Columbus, Ohio with throwing her in jail and stripping her of her rights as a US citizen under the Patriot Act. Scared the sh*t out of her and she called the protest off.

So there you see the FBI cutting the legs out from under this "voting rights" movement before it got started in time to make a difference. So that 's how these guys operate, and you can see the what is happening, and who is behind it. FYI.

-Justin

I truly do hope Carter breaks bread with Brad, Conyers, Arnebeck. Before, I had to send Carter an e-mail that he was duped. Brad, Conyers and Arnebeck have the data, analysis, and facts on the last election. Brad, you do such really great work. I am with you - 100%!

YOU ALL WHINE ABOUT TOM DELAY WHY/???

Scores of lawmakers disclose travel files
One representative missed the reporting deadline by years.
The Associated Press

Scrutiny of Majority Leader Tom DeLay's travel has led to the belated disclosure of at least 198 previously unreported special interest trips by House members and their aides, including eight years of travel by the second-ranking Democrat, an Associated Press review has found.

At least 43 House members and dozens of aides had failed to meet the one-month deadline in ethics rules for disclosing trips financed by organizations outside the U.S. government.

The AP review of thousands of pages of records covered pre-2005 travel that was disclosed since early March. That's when news stories began scrutinizing DeLay's travel, prompting lawmakers to comb through their files to make sure they had disclosed their travel.

While most of the previously undisclosed trips occurred in 2004, some date back to the late 1990s. House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer recently disclosed 12 trips, the oldest dating back to 1997.

Stacey Bernards, a spokeswoman for the Maryland Democrat, said the office searched the files after the travel issue was raised initially by "Republicans doing opposition research to deflect from their own ethical issues."

Hoyer's undisclosed trips were nearly